What is the Prima Materia?

[elixirmixer]

I guess in terms of spiritual alchemy, some would say that there is indeed an aspect of the mind that could be considered the Prima Materia. So I don't think you have travelled too far from the topic.

I believe the general idea of spiritual Alchemy is to begin observing ones thoughts. Through the repeated conscious observation of one's own thoughts, the human being begins to seperate the thoughts from the observer.

One realises, in time, that the thoughts we observe are like the moon. They are reflective. And that the observer if thoughts is the Sun. It is the generative.light of the mind.

No doubt this rabbit hole goes deeper and deeper until one can cross the abyss. What happens after that, I do not know.

 

[Philosophical]

If we pissed out our Quintessence we would all be dead in a very short time.

If our urine had no virtues why is it such an excellent fertilizer? Do we perfectly retain our quintessence throughout our lives? If so, why is it that we die? I wouldn't say urine is the prima materia or necessarily the GW of alchemy but I think it's an excellent candidate for use in preparing magnets for 'our mercury'/'common mercury'/'first mercury'.

 

[black]

If our urine had no virtues why is it such an excellent fertilizer?

It's part of the nitrogen cycle.

Do we perfectly retain our quintessence throughout our lives? If so, why is it that we die?

There are a few parts to Quintessence, the Divine Spark that is Eternal and
the other part that is material of this world.

The part of Quintessence that is of this world is like a battery and it needs constant charging with fresh Quintessence from the food we ingest.

Some foods have a good level of Quintessence .... some have virtually none.

To assist us with a healthy and possibly a prolonged life we need Quintessence, but
more important is the Frequency of the Quintessence .... the higher the better.

There are a few Alchemists that view the Universal Philosophers Stone as just a
preparatory medicine to prepare the human body for much higher Frequencies.

Most things in this world have a life cycle, this is all part of our Evolutionary process.

I wouldn't say urine is the prima materia or necessarily the GW of alchemy but I think it's an excellent candidate for use in preparing magnets for 'our mercury'/'common mercury'/'first mercury'.

I have mentioned it before that there is a lot to learn from the Allegory of working
with urine.

I'm sure you will gain something from this work.

 

[Philosophical]

Thanks black, I find a few of your comments very interesting because we see the same facts but interpret them completely different. I find this fertile ground for new ideas and understanding to emerge.

It's part of the nitrogen cycle.

So niterous compounds aren't in anyway useful for preparing magnets? In my view the fact that the nitrogen is so intimately involved in the vitality of things points to a close relationship to spirit. Why is it that many alchemical texts talk of niter/saltpeter if there is nothing about nitrogen compounds that have something to allude or say about the work?

The part of Quintessence that is of this world is like a battery and it needs constant charging with fresh Quintessence from the food we ingest.

I agree, foods have quintessence. Is this quintessence completely absorbed or is there some loss? Where does the quintessence go?

Some foods have a good level of Quintessence .... some have virtually none.

I'd love to hear more on your thoughts which foods are higher in quintessence. Obviously fast food is going to be low vibe but are certain types of food higher in your understanding?

Most things in this world have a life cycle, this is all part of our Evolutionary process.

What drives this process of birth/ripening and decay other than SM? Why is it when something decays and purifies that we find an abundance of niterous compounds, and conversely material rich in niterous compounds fuel birth. I'm not saying the niterous compounds are SM, I am saying there seems to be some deep relationship to it.

I have mentioned it before that there is a lot to learn from the Allegory of working
with urine.

I'm sure you will gain something from this work.

If no SM = no alchemy and urine cannot be involved in anyway to obtain it then I'm not sure how it could be useful.

 

[Pilgrim]

I agree, foods have quintessence. Is this quintessence completely absorbed or is there some loss? Where does the quintessence go?

I doubt it is all absorbed personally. It surely is dependent on your state of health for does not the body have to extract/separate the life energy in the food from the gross matter it is trapped within? Hence why some foods are better than others. With some foods it's likely easier to separate out this energy than others and as has been mentioned some foods will be rich in the level of energy and others poor.

We know instinctively I think that raw foods straight out of nature are the most beneficial. I would guess that aggressive cooking of food destroys the goodness and facilitates the escaping of the energy into the air.

I'd love to hear more on your thoughts which foods are higher in quintessence. Obviously fast food is going to be low vibe but are certain types of food higher in your understanding?

I'd be interested to know this also. For sure I would think the best foods are those just plucked from the ground seconds before you eat them. I have always adhered to the notion that "black" used of this energy source being like a battery. When I reached the age of 30 I could feel that somehow I had been disconnected from a former power source. Up to that point I was always bursting with seemingly endless energy. Then it was like a switch being thrown and at that point I was living on battery power.

For me this speaks to something very important about pregnancy and what a woman's body produces. It seems to me that when we are born and all through our childhood, our bodies contain something which is a magnet for this life energy and/or which can store/hold large amounts of it. Perhaps it is a salt of some kind? Either way, we lose that something around age 30 and so can't then have access to those large amounts of life energy. We then exist on whatever we had stored at that point and what little we can extract from the things we eat, drink and breathe going forward which is never enough. Hence we are living a losing battle. We are batteries gradually running out of power. The body desperately fights as it has been programmed to allocating the limited fuel it is getting to the most important areas, particularly life support. Inevitably as the power wanes something has to slip as the energy is prioritised to life support functions. Our cells no longer replenish quickly, instead they are renewed about very 5-10 years. Our skin stops renewing quickly, loses elasticity and so on. Decay and death become inevitable.

The Stone imho rectifies this dire position we are in. It provides large amounts of that life energy again so that our bodies can once more do what they are programmed to do. In which respect the Stone is not a medicine as such. It is just the perfect fuel our bodies need to function. Our bodies already know how to heal themselves. They just need to be given the right kind of fuel to operate and be given plenty of it.

This line of thinking leads me in 2 directions.

In one direction is the search for the Stone, the super battery charged with life energy

The other direction is the search to understand what the something is that we lost around age 30 that was a natural life energy magnet within us that kept us on constant trickle charge and thus always full of energy.

Either of these 2 things would allow us to escape from the dire conveyorbelt towards death we are on.

Perhaps they are really the same thing? I don't know.

 

[Philosophical]

@Pilgrim

You make an interesting point about health. I agree it is not wholly absorbed. I know this isnt classical alchemy as such but in chinese medicine initial processing of our foods is a two phase process. Rottening/ripening and transform/transport which separates pure from impure. I think of this like putrefaction and separation. Either or both of these can be affected and I think it would affect the value of alchemical products. We also hear to take matter from healthy subjects, of a young boy ideally. I have observed that urine from children putrefys differently to adult resulting in different crystal formations in the vessel.

I'm not sure if raw food is always best. The nutrition of many foods is behind a few locks (one example being oxalic acid) and needs preparation to be used efficiently. Other wild foods are poisonous until we process them. Fermentation and putrefaction are our friends here too often.

I'm not sure that the stone would ever stop us from dying. I do think it optimizes all the inherent processes in our bodies to live vitally Cyliani spoke about this somewhat. Ultimately, we in this mortal form are meant to return to soil, imo. It's not something I, personally, am trying to avoid or seek. It will happen when it does and until then I want to grow, learn and play on this beautiful planet we call Earth. I think that ultimately we still excrete 'quintessence' even after eating the stone.

 

[Pilgrim]

We also hear to take matter from healthy subjects, of a young boy ideally. I have observed that urine from children putrefys differently to adult resulting in different crystal formations in the vessel.

I have often wondered if this were the case and if the seeming obsession of some groups, cults, secret societies with young boys is to do with this rather than paedophilia.

I'm not sure if raw food is always best. The nutrition of many foods is behind a few locks (one example being oxalic acid) and needs preparation to be used efficiently. Other wild foods are poisonous until we process them. Fermentation and putrefaction are our friends here too often.

Fermentation I know about. I'm a keen maker of breads, sourdoughs etc and also fermented vegetables like sauerkraut. However this concerns management and propagation of certain bacterias and probiotic organisms. I don't think it has much to do with the life energy within the food.

I'm not sure that the stone would ever stop us from dying.

Biblically the main characters in the stories lived 900+ years. The body is a self-healing mechanism so if given the right fuel and enough of it I can't see why you couldn't live indefinitely in this form. Form after all simply requires energy to sustain it. Otherwise nature disassembles it and reassembles it into another form. The universe is a constant transfer of energies, with nothing wasted (assuming Law of Conservation of energy to be correct). The bigger question is whether anyone would want to remain in human form once they realise the truth and have the ability to become any form. Most likely those with the Stone enjoyed advanced human form for some kind but quickly got bored and sought new forms with much more interesting abilities.

Ultimately, we in this mortal form are meant to return to soil, imo. It's not something I, personally, am trying to avoid or seek. It will happen when it does and until then I want to grow, learn and play on this beautiful planet we call Earth. I think that ultimately we still excrete 'quintessence' even after eating the stone.

Ultimately we are all just the ONE. Everything is. The myriad of forms the ONE is expressed as will ultimately all change back to the original source/form. imo.

 

[black]

So niterous compounds aren't in anyway useful for preparing magnets? In my view the fact that the nitrogen is so intimately involved in the vitality of things points to a close relationship to spirit. Why is it that many alchemical texts talk of niter/saltpeter if there is nothing about nitrogen compounds that have something to allude or say about the work?

The word Niter did not always mean saltpeter / potassium nitrate.

I agree, foods have quintessence. Is this quintessence completely absorbed or is there some loss? Where does the quintessence go?

There is always some loss through our digestive system and the material part of
Quintessence (life force) is used up sustaining us.

Alchemic Tinctures work better because a Tincture is made with Alcohol (Ethanol)
98% and this goes more directly into our body with minimal loss.

I'd love to hear more on your thoughts which foods are higher in quintessence. Obviously fast food is going to be low vibe but are certain types of food higher in your understanding?

The fresher the better.

What drives this process of birth/ripening and decay other than SM? Why is it when something decays and purifies that we find an abundance of niterous compounds, and conversely material rich in niterous compounds fuel birth. I'm not saying the niterous compounds are SM, I am saying there seems to be some deep relationship to it.

Many systems of nature in this world are set to cycle and continuously regenerate.

If no SM = no alchemy and urine cannot be involved in anyway to obtain it then I'm not sure how it could be useful.

I don't know of any Alchemists that have extracted SM or a Quintessence from urine.

 

[Jimmy Rig]

Biblically the main characters in the stories lived 900+ years. The body is a self-healing mechanism so if given the right fuel and enough of it I can't see why you couldn't live indefinitely in this form. Form after all simply requires energy to sustain it. Otherwise nature disassembles it and reassembles it into another form. The universe is a constant transfer of energies, with nothing wasted (assuming Law of Conservation of energy to be correct). The bigger question is whether anyone would want to remain in human form once they realise the truth and have the ability to become any form. Most likely those with the Stone enjoyed advanced human form for some kind but quickly got bored and sought new forms with much more interesting abilities.



Ultimately we are all just the ONE. Everything is. The myriad of forms the ONE is expressed as will ultimately all change back to the original source/form. imo.

Hi Pilgrim (and others!)

You raise a good point about form requiring energy to sustain it. What seems pertinent to me is that fire or agent, tends to “fix” or immortalize the patient. In some sense we need to store as much “fire” in the “earth” without burning it up. This applies to all modalities. We can gradually increase the fire, as our earth evolves.. the raising of vibrations. (Heat, energy, fire-but not common). The more perfect the earth or body the more capacity it has to attract and hold this Fire.

To add on to your point about the universe, I think that we could say it is in Constant transfer or forms or it (nature) is in a constant process of manifesting forms from the energy available and of course recycling is part of this process.

What came first? The chicken or the egg?
Neither. It was the spirit and fire who came first. Forms and functions are a by product of the word/vibration/fire. So everything else I am reading here regarding eating fresh -living foods, living, concentrated essences etc all is appropriate and should (from my understanding) help us to build a foundation on and from our earth. These foods are closer to the source and when compounded, even better. In regards to your point about remaining in the human form when having the ability to change forms I think of depictions of the Greek gods who are able to transform into wild animals (of their resonance) Zeus and the eagle as an example. Likely those who have left may re project themselves here for a variety of reasons or durations but likely not all beings do so. Perhaps some are required always (between realms, like spokes on a wheel) to maintain connection between evolution past and present. The messengers, guiding the sleepers such as our beloved Jesus, Hermes etc.

I am really enjoying the discussion you guys are having so thanks for keeping it popping!

 

[Pilgrim]

"Endlessly creating; endlessly pulsating; the Spirit of the Valley never dies; She is called the Hidden Creator.
Although She becomes the whole universe, Her immaculate purity is never lost. Although She assumes countless form, Her true identity remains intact. Whatever we see or don't see, whatever exists or doesn't exist, is nothing but the creation of this Supreme Power. Tao is limitless, unborn, eternal - it can only be reached through the Hidden Creator. She is the very face of the Absolute; the gate to the source of all things eternal. Listen to Her voice; hear it echo though creation. Without fail, She reveals her presence; without fail, She brings us to our own perfection."

Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu, Translated by Jonathan Star

Something formless, complete in itself; there before Heaven and Earth; tranquil, vast, standing alone, unchanging. It provides for all things yet cannot be exhausted; it is the mother of the universe. I do not know its name, so I call it "Tao". Forced to name it further, I call it "the greatness of all thing", "the end of all endings"; I call it "that which is beyond the beyond", "that to which all things return". From Tao comes all greatness - it makes Heaven great, it makes Earth great, it makes man great.

Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu, Translated by Jonathan Star

 

[tAlc]

The word Niter did not always mean saltpeter / potassium nitrate.

There is always some loss through our digestive system and the material part of
Quintessence (life force) is used up sustaining us.

Alchemic Tinctures work better because a Tincture is made with Alcohol (Ethanol)
98% and this goes more directly into our body with minimal loss.

The fresher the better.

Many systems of nature in this world are set to cycle and continuously regenerate.

I don't know of any Alchemists that have extracted SM or a Quintessence from urine.

Is there a difference between Universal Fire & your use of the word Quintessence or are they both the same thing?

How do you define this Spiritus Mundi?

The Golden Chain Of Homer explains how the Solar Rays of Light are a ''spiritual spiritual mundi'' which becomes more corporified as it gets closer to the Earth, ''visible in Light and concealed in Water''.

It also goes on to explain how we can make Gur using Rain Water.

Rain Water inspissated, generated Gur, and Gur is Water forming into Earth, and Earth volatilized turns back into its most subtle state of Fire. If the Solar Rays of Light is Spiritus Mundi which becomes more corporeal as it approaches Earth, this would imply that Every Matter in our World is Spiritus Mundi under different countless forms, all reverberated, all going through the alchemical processes inside of our outer World or Globe, which are all capable of fermentation by itself, with its inward fiery principle which is volatilized and thereby extracted through the process of rarefaction in our flasks.

What are we extracting out of the Matter if it is not this very Fire?

 

[HNO3]

Since ancient times fire has been revealed to researchers, but it has proved much more difficult to attribute the alchemical queen to the alchemical king.

A primordial essence that can be found in every situation, material or immaterial.

Present in the material universe, in the immaterial multiverse and beyond towards infinity, the quintessence is the mother of mothers.
From the union of the masculine and the feminine new beings are born, who will have to face a path of knowledge to understand how to manage their existence.

An endless existence.

Looking at various conditions, I would introduce the theory of temperature.

Fire is a game of condensation originating mainly from oxygen to make us understand that two fairly simple concepts can be attributed to the feminine and the masculine.

The fire for the masculine. A constant contraction and concentration can represent a clot towards the infinitesimal.
A constant dilation leads to the infinite, to the feminine.

Temperature represents the ether that expands to infinity and is a characteristic oscillation for every being.
In her I found animals and plants, emotions and sensations that appear and disappear devouring each other.

A bit like in creation, the fixed beings of matter, the atoms, representing the creatures akin to fire. Eternal already in materiality, they hold the keys to immortality (e.g. Clavis Artis).

If at the bottom, in materiality the creatures of matter act by geometric-rational representation, at the top, in the immaterial act the creatures that move emotional states by manifesting themselves and disappearing.

Similar to the universe, our being is populated by the creatures that help us wake up in this infinite creation. Just as some creatures help us to see, to feel, to perceive, so other creatures help us to try, to feel deeply.

From the union of these two things our being becomes complete, from the knowledge of what we really are comes information.

This is a bit of an introduction to a visual that I would be able to represent in more detail, but in the meantime I hope that this interpretation is appreciated and I hope it is quite understandable.

 

[Andro]

In the Golden Chain diagram you posted, the "Prima Materia" is corporeal "Niter" ("acidus corporeus"), fixed on corporeal "Salt" ("alcalicus corporeus").

When corporifying this very subtle "Niter" in distilled rainwater, the water does indeed become more acidic.

We can use the "tenacious and refractory envelope" of Fulcanelli to fix it, i.e. a very fixed Earth/Central Salt, the "mostest fixest" of all.

See Ruesenstein quote below:



And another pertinent quote from Hyle & Coahyl:

 

[ArgentSeeker]

In the Golden Chain diagram you posted, the "Prima Materia" is corporeal "Niter" ("acidus corporeus"), fixed on corporeal "Salt" ("alcalicus corporeus").

When corporifying this very subtle "Niter" in distilled rainwater, the water does indeed become more acidic.

We can use the "tenacious and refractory envelope" of Fulcanelli to fix it, i.e. a very fixed Earth/Central Salt, the "mostest fixest" of all.

See Ruesenstein quote below:

View attachment 4146

And another pertinent quote from Hyle & Coahyl:

View attachment 4147

So using very simple imagery, the SM is an acid module and the alkali is compacted SM, that when it joins together, it makes PM? Conversely, reverting a substance to its PM can also break up its components, and create modules of SM and alkali that you can separate and recombine after purification?

 

[Andro]

So using very simple imagery, the SM is an acid module and the alkali is compacted SM, that when it joins together, it makes PM?

I don't know why the newly-corporified salts make the water more acidic. Perhaps the most immediate/compatible Host is acidic, as per the Law of Mediums in GCoH.

But basically, the "Celestial Niter" fixed on the "Terrestrial (Central) Salt" = the "Seed" or "Magnet" or "Prima Materia" (based on the Golden Chain and on the other quotes I posted above).

Conversely, reverting a substance to its PM can also break up its components, and create modules of SM and alkali that you can separate and recombine after purification?

It's not "SM and alkali". Both the "Niter" and the "Salt" are mutually complementing permutations of "Spiritus Mundi" (as per the GC diagram), in their respective material Hosts, acid being the medium between volatile and fixed/alkali.

 

[ArgentSeeker]

I don't know why the newly-corporified salts make the water more acidic. Perhaps the most immediate/compatible Host is acidic, as per the Law of Mediums in GCoH.

But basically, the "Celestial Niter" fixed on the "Terrestrial (Central) Salt" = the "Seed" or "Magnet" or "Prima Materia" (based on the Golden Chain and on the other quotes I posted above).


It's not "SM and alkali". Both the "Niter" and the "Salt" are mutually complementing permutations of "Spiritus Mundi" (as per the GC diagram), in their respective material Hosts, acid being the medium between volatile and fixed/alkali.

Right, I was just differentiating between what I though to be modular units of SM. In that they say it comes in as an imperceptible gas, in my mind, it's an extremely subtle matter that, as Mr. Kevin says, comes into matter as a guest. My question is, does the guest matter/energy ever condense into matter, or is it purely a field function that hitchhikes onto matter? I recall reading in a passage that the guest not only comes down, but also goes back up. I'll have to reread where I saw that, but the implication is that incorporeal things become solidified and that matter then also becomes more rarified and enters back into the SM field. Entirely armchair hypothesis, however.

 

[Kiorionis]

Sometimes you have to reverse things.

Metaphorically, it doesn't come into matter as a guest. It already made a house for itself, but forgot its keys.

If you think of it like a battery… If your phone is at 10%, it charges to 60-70% in about 15 minutes. The other 30% will take another 3 hours to charge.

Why?

Because the atoms are packing themselves into alignment. Trying to fight for space. @ghetto alchemist has been writing about this sort of thing for awhile.

My question is, does the guest matter/energy ever condense into matter, or is it purely a field function that hitchhikes onto matter?

Why can’t it be both?

 

[ArgentSeeker]

Sometimes you have to reverse things.

Metaphorically, it doesn't come into matter as a guest. It already made a house for itself, but forgot its keys.

If you think of it like a battery… If your phone is at 10%, it charges to 60-70% in about 15 minutes. The other 30% will take another 3 hours to charge.

Why?

Because the atoms are packing themselves into alignment. Trying to fight for space. @ghetto alchemist has been writing about this sort of thing for awhile.



Why can’t it be both?

Well, if it's both, then we have to really hammer down on the transition phases for the particles themselves so that we can have a more exact understanding of where the transitions from matter to energy begins. I will read KM's book over the next few days. I've been putting it off so I can read shorter manuscripts, but I'll buckle-up and chew through it.

 

[Kiorionis]

I don’t believe in particles. That’s the reductionist tendency of “modern science” filtering through, imo. It’s either a wave or a frequency or an energy. There is no single thing, in my mind.

a more exact understanding of where the transitions from matter to energy begins

Maybe it’s just me, but again, sometimes it’s helpful to reverse things.

“A more exact understanding of where the transition from energy to matter begins”

 

[nav2010]

With the whitish seed of all metals.
The water is volatile, the earth fixed;
One can effect nothing without the other.
Both are born of a root having a white exterior.
It produces all the virtues of the metals,
Yet it is not dug from the ore
Either with pickaxes or other instruments.
In the place and spot where our Matter is found
No other metal whatever exists.
It is produced, with its virtue and efficacy,
In Hyle or Chaos alone.
Homer knew it well, and called it Moly.
This, in its proper condition,
Has a root altogether black.
It is green, white and blood red.
The god Mercury offered it to Ulysses,
Even unto Ulysses in his wanderings,
As a precaution against the sorcery of Circe.
The gods also have bestowed it upon man
As a singularly great gift,

People have been involved in the search for Moly for the past couple of hundred years. They never found it yet its staring them in the face.
In Abraham's plates it is depicted as a mountain plant affected by the winds, rooted into the darkness with black roots. Symbolised in the plant itself with the colours white, red and black. The dragons and demons won't go near it because its poisonous and in mythology it was used to ward off evil and witchcraft.

The flowers are poisonous, the stems are poisonous and the root is poisonous and you will hear its name for the first time here and now.
It is the Christmas rose known as Helleborus niger.

Helleborus niger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nav2010]

But also check out white Helleborus.

Melanthiaceae - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org