Universal vs. Particular & Associated Definitions

[Andro]

But you will firstly need to be in possession of the Universal Quintessence to be able to extract a Particular Quintessence.

Based on the classical literature (Wet Path) and also on some of my own experience, that's simply not the case, unless perhaps one has reason to make things unnecessarily complicated. Also, we should not confuse "Prima Materia" with Primum Ens/First Being/Sulfur/Quintessence. Those are distinctly different stages of the work. In the classical sense that the good alchemical authors write about, "Prima Materia" is the matter that we prepare to "receive", it is our "Magnesia", our "Vessel", the "Soil" containing our Sol & Luna Seeds which we must nourish and eventually grow into a fully bloomed, united with itself "fruit".

To "extract" (after proper nourishment and unification) any particular OR universal alchemical quintessence, we only require a well rectified Ph. Mercury, which is more Lunar/Volatile in nature. This "specimen" is also obtained (1st Rotation) via the interplay between the Astral Spirit and the Prepared Earth. With a sufficiently rectified Ph. Mercury we can render the Alchemical Sulfur from any particular matter or from the ONE Universal Matter (the so-called "Center" of Nature), which is literally in every matter unless lost by industrial processing.

The difference between a Universal and a Particular "Quintessence" I would phrase as follows: In the Particular, we are rendering the already "bloomed" and specified "fruit" from this or that kingdom. In the Universal, we are growing and nourishing the yet "UN-sprouted" Universal Seeds of the Sun and the Moon. Some authors maintain that in working with metallic gold instead of the Universal Matter (2nd Rotation), we may obtain an (almost?) equally potent Sulfur or "Quintessence". However, the requirement for the Alchemical Ph. Mercury is the same for both Universal and Particular.

Additionally, a really good quality & uncontaminated "Spiritus" will eventually yield its own Sulfur by itself in the proper conditions, without any additional material or "champion" or "equal", etc. This "nascent" Sulfur is already medicinal, but somewhat more challenging to further fix and multiply in virtue.

Disclaimer: None of the above is to be regarded as "truth". Just another angle, perhaps somewhat more in line with the classical Alchemical Authors.

 

[black]

Based on the classical literature (Wet Path) and also on some of my own experience, that's simply not the case, unless perhaps one has reason to make things unnecessarily complicated.

I am very, very interested in hearing any method of extracting a Quintessence, be it Universal or Particular without the use of Our Mercury (Spiritus Mundi).

Also, we should not confuse "Prima Materia" with Primum Ens/First Being/Sulfur/Quintessence. Those are distinctly different stages of the work. In the classical sense that the good alchemical authors write about, "Prima Materia" is the matter that we prepare to "receive", it is our "Magnesia", our "Vessel", the "Soil" containing our Sol & Luna Seeds which we must nourish and eventually grow into a fully bloomed, united with itself "fruit".

What is more important than the words used .... is the understanding of the processes.
Alchemy would be much clearer if we just used X+Y=Z
or X+Y=Z, F, H, Q and T where X is Our Mercury ... Y is It's Equal

To "extract" (after proper nourishment and unification) any particular OR universal alchemical quintessence, we only require a well rectified Ph. Mercury, which is more Lunar/Volatile in nature.

Yes .... I can totally agree with that.

But with some Alchemic scenarios this method can be circumvented.

This "specimen" is also obtained (1st Rotation) via the interplay between the Astral Spirit and the Prepared Earth.

Yes.

With a sufficiently rectified Ph. Mercury we can render the Alchemical Sulfur from any particular matter or from the ONE Universal Matter (the so-called "Center" of Nature), which is literally in every matter unless lost by industrial processing.

This paragraph has certain ambiguities.

"we can render the Alchemical Sulfur from any particular matter" the term particular matter would have to be referring to a matter that has Alchemical Sulfur (a Soul / Quintessence / Primum Ens) in it.

The last piece of that paragraph ...... "which is literally in every matter unless lost by industrial processing" carries no Alchemic logic.

If a matter has no Soul (Quintessence) then it is impossible to extract it .... But there are some Adept Alchemists that can insert a Soul into a Soulless Matter for very advanced Alchemy.

Additionally, a really good quality & uncontaminated "Spiritus" will eventually yield its own Sulfur by itself in the proper conditions, without any additional material or "champion" or "equal", etc. This "nascent" Sulfur is already medicinal, but somewhat more challenging to further fix and multiply in virtue.

My Alchemy Teacher instructed me to perform this experiment a few times as it is a good Test of the Active Agent.

I would suggest that those also looking to work this Test should take several bottles containing the Active Agent and place them in various environments e.g. hot, cold, light, dark and a mixture of these.

The unfortunate thing about this Test is that it can take 9 months to a year before it shows any signs.

And as you have written "but somewhat more challenging to further fix and multiply in virtue" .... but I do believe these hurdles can be overcome with persistent prayer.

Disclaimer: None of the above is to be regarded as "truth". Just another angle, perhaps somewhat more in line with the classical Alchemical Authors.

 

[Andro]

I am very, very interested in hearing any method of extracting a Quintessence, be it Universal or Particular without the use of Our Mercury (Spiritus Mundi).

You're twisting my words, I never said that. I was responding to your claim below:

But you will firstly need to be in possession of the Universal Quintessence to be able to extract a Particular Quintessence.

We do NOT require the "Universal Quintessence" to obtain a "Particular Quintessence". We do however require the Ph. Mercury, the product of the 1st Rotation (in Western lineages), which comes BEFORE the rendering of the "Sulfur" or "Quintessence". Unless you are mistakenly confusing Ph. Mercury (1st Rotation) with Sulfur/Quintessence (2nd Rotation). We should also NOT confuse between the First Mercury (Spiritus) and the Ph. Mercury.

Also note that I've just edited my previous post and added a few more bits.

"we can render the Alchemical Sulfur from any particular matter" the term particular matter would have to be referring to a matter that has Alchemical Sulfur (a Soul / Quintessence / Primum Ens) in it.

Yes, I could have been clearer on this. We cannot harvest a fruit off a barren tree. No particular/specified extractions in this case.

However, in the Universal, even seemingly barren trees can be used for "harvesting" their Center. Wouldn't be my first choice, though.

The last piece of that paragraph ...... "which is literally in every matter unless lost by industrial processing" carries no Alchemic logic.

The Universal Matter/Center can indeed be significantly lost or depleted by processing. Good luck finding it in plastic, for example. Alchemical Principles don't give a Flying Betty about your logic, or mine, or anyone else's, for that matter.

I would suggest that those also looking to work this Test should take several bottles containing the Active Agent and place them in various environments e.g. hot, cold, light, dark and a mixture of these.

Excellent pointers IMO.

The unfortunate thing about this Test is that it can take 9 months to a year before it shows any signs.

It can take much, much less. I'm sorry to hear your auto-fecundation test is taking so long. Maybe a little prayer will speed things up a bit (seriously, not joking).

 

[Andro]

If a matter has no Soul (Quintessence) then it is impossible to extract it .... But there are some Adept Alchemists that can insert a Soul into a Soulless Matter for very advanced Alchemy.

I will attempt (again) to disperse with some of the confusing psycho-semantics in the terminology.

In particular "extractions", we are rendering an already grown/blossomed flower/fruit, which is already specified.

In the universal, we are the "farmers" who are growing and nourishing the not-yet-sprouted & not-yet-determined Universal SEEDS, i.e. "Sol & Luna", i.e. the "Two Central Fires" present in all matter, but not yet "awakened" (BUT on condition that the Center has not been processed out of it AND regardless if it already blossomed into a particular Fruit or not, because in the universal, it's not the already blossomed flower/fruit that we're after).

In summary:

Universal Quintessence: "Farming" (i.e. "Celestial Agriculture") the non-specified Universal Seeds into a full grown Universal Alchemical Fruit. And while it's a long stretch, we might (loosely) compare those "Universal Seeds" to "Nature's Stem Cells", although this comparison is far from perfect. And an earthly body/material containing those "Seeds" or "Stem Cells" always displays the same mineral-like characteristics, no matter which Kingdom it is sourced from. If we take Melissa (for example) and wish to use it for a Universal Process, we must discard its determined/specified Sulfur and aim for extracting the Root, which is not of any specified nature of Melissa or otherwise.

Specified/Determined Quintessence: Harvesting the already bloomed/blossomed and specified/determined Fruit.

Note: Judging by the corpus of available literature, it is, to various extents, possible to "universalize" a specified Quintessence, however to accomplish this, we still require the Ph. Mercury, which is itself a "product" grown and derived from the Universal Seed. Some Western lineages use the Sulfur of metallic gold as a preferred candidate for "universalization". But to accomplish this, we need to have a good reserve of Volatile Agency (i.e. Ph. Mercury). Once we run out of it, the evolutionary process comes to an abrupt end.

Additional Note: So-called "particular" processes are mostly limited to the Secret Fire/Mercurial Spiritus already contained in the matter itself. We might as well refer to such processes as "High-Level Spagyrics". The Mercurial Spiritus IS involved, but only in a limited manner, quantity and potency.

For Medicinal High-Level Spagyria, we already have plenty of processes available in the Literature. Jugel's Process with Pee-Pee & Poo-Poo is such an example. And by Mr. Jugel's own admission, it could have been taken further.

For Archemical Particulars (of the transmuting kind), the available "recipes" are even less clear, for some UN-known reason.

Disclaimer: None of the above is to be regarded as "truth". Just another angle, perhaps somewhat more in line with the classical Alchemical Authors.

 

[Jimmy Rig]

I respect you both immensely; for different reasons. I tend to appreciate Andro’s rendering of terms as they are quite clear to me. Like you said, not to be regarded as “truth” just another angle; but I think that your angle is a digestible and a useful one. I also think that black is very knowledgeable and is rightfully so cautious about what he wants to say on the forums. I appreciate the time you both spend to try to assist whoever it is that needs it.

As for the topic, I think that SM is present in all living matters (which is really anything natural) but the concentration varies; I have seen what I believe to be the same substances from dew, groundwater, urine, clay, herbs etc. Eventually everything pukes it’s core components to put it bluntly and they seem universal. What is never clear to me is when do we stop turning the wheel; I think I have personally wrecked a few good outcomes by over processing. Good posts fellas

 

[black]

We do however require the Ph. Mercury, the product of the 1st Rotation (in Western lineages), which comes BEFORE the rendering of the "Sulfur" or "Quintessence". Unless you are mistakenly confusing Ph. Mercury (1st Rotation) with Sulfur/Quintessence (2nd Rotation). We should also NOT confuse between the First Mercury (Spiritus) and the Ph. Mercury.

I'm not confused ... as I have worked this Process many hundreds of times.

In theory this is what is often implied in the books, but in practice is somewhat different ... I can expand to the finest detail on these differences.

Have you performed these two rotations ?

If so ... then I would be glad to continue this discussion to a much deeper level.

 

[Andro]

I'm not confused ... as I have worked this Process many hundreds of times.

I sincerely doubt this claim. If you did, you wouldn't have written this:

But you will firstly need to be in possession of the Universal Quintessence to be able to extract a Particular Quintessence.

And then twist my words to make it sound like I intended to say quintessence can be extracted without an Alchemical Spiritus, something I clearly never said.

UNLESS by "Universal Quintessence" you mean a bona-fide Philosophical Mercury (which is in fact not yet a full actual Quintessence, but only the Lunar/Mercurial & more volatile aspect of it), whose Roots are of course also in the Universal. The full actual Quintessence is the "alchemical triple union" of Sol, Luna & Spiritus.

In theory this is what is often implied in the books, but in practice is somewhat different ... I can expand to the finest detail on these differences.

The practical methodology may differ, yes. But the principles remain the same. Some practitioners I know prefer to "produce" the Ph. Mercury and the Ph. Sulfur separately, i.e. in separate vessels, using different matters and procedures, and "marry" them at a later stage. I myself have found this approach less potent and prefer to use just one matter, from which the alchemical specimens can be rendered in sequence, not in parallel. This latter approach is well described in 18th Century R+C literature (ICH, etc.) in the form of the 3 sequential "Rotations".

Black, I do appreciate the input, but you really need to "get your story straight" and stop twisting others' words to suit your narrative every time you feel like deflecting.

A good step forward would be to start using clear terms we can all understand, preferably based on the available corpus of literature, because that's what most people who READ can relate to. We can progress to fancier novelty terms at a later stage in this discussion.

So let's define, for starters and concerning the Wet Path:

- Spiritus/Astral Spirit
- "Equal" (novelty term, afaik)
- Prepared Earth / Our Vessel / Magnesia
- Ph. Magnet
- First Mercury / Mercury Simplex (sometimes referred to as "common" Mercury - NOT metallic Hg)
- Philosophical Mercury or "Mercury Duplex" (and how it differs from the "First Mercury" or "Mercury Simplex")
- Ph. Sulfur or "Quintessence" or "Mercury Triplex"
- What differentiates a universal process from a particular or specified one in terms the MO (I already attempted this in a previous post)

Etc...

In theory this is what is often implied in the books, but in practice is somewhat different ... I can expand to the finest detail on these differences.

I'm open to expanding further, AFTER we've clarified some basic terms & definitions (see above).

Have you performed these two rotations? If so ... then I would be glad to continue this discussion to a much deeper level.

I've done such processes, however I've used store-bought chemicals (in the past) to aid in the extractions, something I will NOT be doing again. The resulting products were interesting, noticeably invigorating, even mildly psychoactive at times (in terms of enhancing lucidity), but not the "real goods" that can be obtained with a more "natural" approach. Based on my own experience so far, it's better to stick with the classical authors. No "common" distillations or sublimations or chemicals, etc. It's for good reason that the classical authors advise us to "follow nature".

Zadkiel: "Geber seems to have been the inventor of the distillatory apparatus, which no doubt he contrived, to aid him in his complicated experiments, before he had discovered the simplicity and facility of the Art."

PS: Black darling, when you and I eventually make a properly multiplied, super-coherent and highly negentropic Philosopher's Stone that can cure all disease, reverse aging and transmute large quantities of base metals (and so much more), I'm inviting you to party our asses off in Valhalla. Drinks are on me.

---

Disclaimer: None of the above is to be regarded as "truth". Just another angle, perhaps somewhat more in line with the classical Alchemical Authors.

 

[black]

I sincerely doubt this claim. If you did, you wouldn't have written this:

"I sincerely doubt this claim".... Why ?

Often I work many months at a time starting a new Alchemic Process everyday, some days I may start two or more Processes.

I have been doing this for 30 years... the math is simple.
"If you did, you wouldn't have written this" ... Why would you say that ?

The practical methodology may differ, yes. But the principles remain the same. Some practitioners I know prefer to "produce" the Ph. Mercury and the Ph. Sulfur separately, i.e. in separate vessels, using different matters and procedures, and "marry" them at a later stage. I myself have found this approach less potent and prefer to use just one matter, from which the alchemical specimens can be rendered in sequence, not in parallel. This latter approach is well described in 18th Century R+C literature (ICH, etc.) in the form of the 3 sequential "Rotations".

Yes, I view the sequential approach more natural.

A good step forward would be to start using clear terms we can all understand, preferably based on the available corpus of literature, because that's what most people who READ can relate to. We can progress to fancier novelty terms at a later stage in this discussion.

So let's define, for starters and concerning the Wet Path:

First let us remove the term Wet Path as this can also confuse many.

Secondly many terms can change their meaning depending on the process
the Alchemist is describing at that given time.

So when reading, it is imperative that I fully understand the process that
is being presented.

Because of this I will give a ballpark definition of some of these terms as
I view them.

- Spiritus/Astral Spirit

This can be viewed as Our Mercury, SM (Spiritus Mundi), etc due to it's
levels of manifestation e.g. from ethereal to tangible matter.

- "Equal" (novelty term, afaik)

Yes, "Equal" is a novelty term that I use.

To work an Alchemic Process (as is usually accepted) we require Two Parts e.g. king/queen, mercury/gold, the two champions, dragon/serpent, agent/patient, etc.

Any half of these terms could be eluded to as an Equal, it is what is needed to balance the Alchemic equation.

If we take the dragon/serpent then the dragon or the serpent is the "Equal" of the other.

- Prepared Earth / Our Vessel / Magnesia

These terms do not necessarily have the same meaning.

- Ph. Magnet

Our Magnet is Our Mercury (Spiritus Mundi) as it will attract the Universal Quintessence
to itself from any of the Three Realms.

- First Mercury / Mercury Simplex (sometimes referred to as "common" Mercury - NOT metallic Hg)

Our Mercury, SM (Spiritus Mundi), etc

Most definitely not Mercury (Hg) .... It is a dead metal.

- Philosophical Mercury or "Mercury Duplex" (and how it differs from the "First Mercury" or "Mercury Simplex")

Philosophical Mercury is not to be confused with "Mercury Duplex" though
some may call the Philosophical Mercury the Second Mercury.

"Mercury Duplex" is not to be used in the Primary Alchemic Process.

The Primary Alchemic Process is the evolution of a Quintessence all the way
through to it's Fixedness.

"Mercury Duplex" is only used in advanced Alchemic Processes.

Philosophical Mercury, Mercury Duplex, First Mercury/Mercury Simplex
are all related to one another and Evolved for specific purposes as we progress
through many levels of practical Alchemy.

- Ph. Sulfur or "Quintessence" or "Mercury Triplex"

I will comment that Ph. Sulfur, Quintessence, Soul, and Our Red Oil are all the
same thing.

- What differentiates a universal process from a particular or specified one in terms the MO (I already attempted this in a previous post)

Our Mercury (SM) will extract a Quintessence from any of the Three Realms ..... But it can only extract a Universal Quintessence.
The MO of extracting a Universal Quintessence is that we join in a correct ratio the Two Parts e.g. king/queen, mercury/gold, the two champions, dragon/serpent, agent/patient, etc, etc.

This is the Alchemic Unification where a most violent reaction takes place between
our two combatant Champions. For this process it is essential that the Alchemist has a small (suggested the size of a hens egg) glass vessel which is extremely thick and strong
to contain the violent reaction enclosed.

It is often advised that this process will take seven to ten rotations .... But for some
Alchemists it could take 15 to 20 before the correct Fixation is achieved.

What is being spoken about here is the First Alchemic Process and these Rotations
should not be confused with Multiplications .... that is a completely different Process.

At the present time I will not comment on the MO for the Particular Quintessence.

I will say that it must be an Alchemic Process as that for the Universal Quintessence
but considerably more involved.

I'm open to expanding further, AFTER we've clarified some basic terms & definitions (see above).

OK

I've done such processes, however I've used store-bought chemicals (in the past) to aid in the extractions, something I will NOT be doing again. The resulting products were interesting, noticeably invigorating, even mildly psychoactive at times (in terms of enhancing lucidity), but not the "real goods" that can be obtained with a more "natural" approach. Based on my own experience so far, it's better to stick with the classical authors. No "common" distillations or sublimations or chemicals, etc. It's for good reason that the classical authors advise us to "follow nature".

Yes, there are very specific places in nature where the Frequency of Quintessence be it
Universal or Particular is very much higher than in other places.

If we ingest a Tincture of low Frequency then it will have little effect.

Interesting things can be worked with the lower Frequencies, but great things can be
worked with the Highest Frequencies and more so if we join this with Theurgy.

PS: Black darling, when you and I eventually make a properly multiplied, super-coherent and highly negentropic Philosopher's Stone that can cure all disease, reverse aging and transmute large quantities of base metals (and so much more), I'm inviting you to party our asses off in Valhalla. Drinks are on me.

That's a great invitation, thank you.

 

[Andro]

First let us remove the term Wet Path as this can also confuse many.

Let's not. Most people who READ can relate to the differentiation in the literature between the Wet Pat and the Dry Path. What's confusing is you introducing "novelty" terms that you keep conjuring up. For the sake of clarity, I'd suggest to use more "established" terms, it makes it easier to comprehend for everyone, or at least for those who can be bothered to actually READ the relevant literature.

The so-called "Wet Path" does not necessarily involve any particularly violent reactions, unless one is possessed by the need to make things more complicated than they need to be. All that's required for commencement is the Agent (Spiritus) and the Patient (the "Hidden Center" a.k.a. the matter containing the "sleeping" or "dormant" universal seeds of Sol & Luna). That's all.

How to obtain those two "leading actors" is something that no alchemical text has ever revealed plainly (actually it HAS been revealed quite plainly here and there, but using occult blinds to obfuscate the context). And there are various/multiple ways to cast those "Leading Actors", some of which you have (mistakenly) termed "non-alchemic" in the past. The rest, as they say, is "Child's Play".

Often I work many months at a time starting a new Alchemic Process everyday, some days I may start two or more Processes.

I have been doing this for 30 years... the math is simple.

No, your so-called "math" is NOT "simple". One can be doing this for many decades or even lifetimes, and still end up even more confused or clueless than when they started. The time factor is not a valid indicator for the accuracy of one's statements.

"If you did, you wouldn't have written this" ... Why would you say that?

Because you wrote that one must FIRST have the Universal Quintessence BEFORE one can extract a Particular Quintessence. This is simply not the case. This is what you wrote:

But you will firstly need to be in possession of the Universal Quintessence to be able to extract a Particular Quintessence.

And when I challenged your above statement, you replied:

I am very, very interested in hearing any method of extracting a Quintessence, be it Universal or Particular without the use of Our Mercury (Spiritus Mundi).

That's NOT what I said. I NEVER said "Our Mercury" is not required for obtaining a genuine alchemical Quintessence. What I DID say, is that we do not require a Universal Quintessence for (or prior to) extracting a Particular one.

Do you openly admit you have twisted my words? Your admission is a condition for continuing this exchange.

IF you admit to twisting my words (whether deliberately or not), THEN I will attempt to address (and if necessary, correct 🤓) your other claims at a later time.

PS: A Universal Quintessence can NOT be readily "extracted". Only Particulars can be readily "extracted", as already blossomed (specified) flowers/fruits. A truly Universal Quintessence must be first grown//nourished/farmed out of its Primordial Seeds, the Primordial Central Fires or "Nature's Stem Cells" (for lack of a better term). This gross misunderstanding of "Universal" has caused many an alchemist to hit a seemingly impenetrable roadblock.

---

Disclaimer: None of the above is to be regarded as "truth". Just another angle, perhaps somewhat more in line with the classical Alchemical Authors.