. Three Virgin Saints

[Michael Sternbach]

It's very simple, and who better to explain this than "Illen A. Cluf", which most of you must have already realized is just a backward anagram for "Fulcanelli"?

Are you actually him?

I have read all of Fulcanelli's Dwellings at least six times.

Ok ok, nobody doubts your expertise!

The "black dragon" is our "virgin earth", or the mineral matter from the mine, from which you start all of your operations. Like some dragons, it can range from darkish grey to almost black, and is covered with "scales".

And that would be...?

 

[Illen A. Cluf]

Are you actually him?

LOL! I may be old, but not THAT old!

Ok ok, nobody doubts your expertise!

I wouldn't really call it "expertise", but just "familiarity".

And that would be...?

Nice try

 

[Florius Frammel]

While pondering about what that matter is, I highly recommend reading this fairy tale:

Donkeyskin

Its origin is the origin of both the saturnalian habit of Paris' donkey procession and the Goldesel.

BTW Michael, is it still common in your region to crown a "Bohnenkönig" on Jan 6th?

 

[Seraphim]

Thank you for sharing Illen A. Cluf, Michael and Florius.

 

[Andro]

I highly recommend reading this fairy tale:

Donkeyskin

This reminds me of some posts by Pierre from more than 7 years ago. Bolds are mine.

What you mention here is the formation of the seed metal or mineral in the bosom of the earth and that is universal, ie, is not determined yet, to any realm of nature, but circumstances secret, associate to the kingdom mineral. This seed is so tender that needs the protection of some black earth that surrounds it, because sunlight destroys it. It is fed by the soil moisture and warmth of her womb, during periods of heat and moisture that make it evolve towards the formation of minerals, in the future.

But free of this envelope by the alchemical art, is white and when ripe is red.

This substance released from the impurities that protect it, if exposed to the Spiritus Mundi, catches him and becomes the alchemical magnet as sought by the alchemists.You know that the Spiritus Mundi materialized in minerals is the alchemical sulfur or vital spark, set in the matter.

Able to identify this material and get it at the time of its creation in the black earth above, we would be spared the arduous work of breaking down the minerals to get this seed. Am I clear? Should only have to get it at birth and evolve as naturally as possible in our laboratory under controlled conditions similar to those of nature, but with the benefit of speeding up the "natural time".

With respect to this path, is a 100% natural alternative. It should make without the aid of acids, salts, heat, corrosive, as nature does in the bowels of the earth. At best, a glass vessel containing the substance to manipulate comfortably, when cleaned of their impurities. This universal seed, not even mineral or metal, yet, it is undetermined to any realm of nature. We should direct it to the mineral kingdom.

Its natural cover is a black-colored substance, a sort of rotten ground product of the consecutive stages of damp heat, (I don't know if this are the best words to describe) the weather will bring. We can all see with our eyes and touched with our hands that matter. But we must identify which thing is which produces that black earth. Chemically speaking is a substance well known, and if you see the hidden correspondences of this substance, you may find that the fleece, lamb and oak, among others, will take you through the Kabbalah, at the subject name.

Strangely, this seed clean and separated from its black cover and filthy, has a certain radioactive property is generated by the natural conditions of its own evolution. But it is not itself radioactive as the others that we know today.

 

[Andro]

If we're already talking about the "Dragon" (also mentioned by Cyliany and with similar characteristics such as "toxic breath, etc.), he is an excerpt from Labyrinth Designers:

This primal substance has seen its evolution interrupted by the interposition and penetration of a filthy combustible sulphur, which coats its pure mercury, holds it back, and coagulates it. And, though it is entirely volatile, this primitive mercurius , materialized by the drying action of the arsenical sulphur, takes the shape of a solid, black, dense, fibrous, brittle, crushable mass rendered, by its lack of utility, vile, abject, and despicable in the eyes of man. Yet, in this subject ~ poor relative of the metal family ~ the enlightened artist finds everything that he needs to begin and perfect his Great Work, since it is present, say the authors, at the beginning, the middle, and the end of the Work. ……. our subject contains a frightful poison whose very odor would suffice to cause death. Yet it is from this toxic mineral that the universal medicine is made, which no human illness can resist, no matter how incurable it is thought to be. But that which gives it all its value and makes it infinitely precious in the eyes of the sage is the admirable virtue it possesses, of revivifying metals that have been reduced and molten and of losing its poisonous properties by granting them its own activity. And so it does appear to be the instrument of resurrection, and of redemption of the metallic bodies, dead by violence of a reducing fire, the reason for which it bears in its coat of arms, the sign of the Redeemer, the cross.”

Full text HERE.

It's also worth noting that according to some sources, Cyliani was (allegedly) one of Fulcanelli's teachers...

 

[Michael Sternbach]

LOL! I may be old, but not THAT old!

Especially if we consider that Fulcanelli may have been, uhm, may be Flamel (as some like to believe)!

I wouldn't really call it "expertise", but just "familiarity".

Let me rephrase my previous statement then:

Ok ok, nobody doubts your familiarity!

Nice try

Nice reply! But... Why am I not surprised? 🤨

 

[Michael Sternbach]

While pondering about what that matter is, I highly recommend reading this fairy tale:

Donkeyskin

Its origin is the origin of both the saturnalian habit of Paris' donkey procession and the Goldesel.

BTW Michael, is it still common in your region to crown a "Bohnenkönig" on Jan 6th?

Of course we in Switzerland keep that lovely ancient tradition alive! Even though the bean in the cake that makes you king for a day is replaced by a tiny plastic figure nowadays, and the cake conveniently comes packed with a crown made of real gold (paper).

 

[Florius Frammel]

That is imo a very nice alchemical tradition.

It's the same like Donkeyskin's ring, that fell into the cake and the

Galette de Rois

whose puff pasty (foliated earth) also has a "scaled" surface.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

What is specifically alchemical about it? (Save for Aristocratic symbolism generally being employed in the royal art.)

 

[Illen A. Cluf]

What is specifically alchemical about it? (Save for Aristocratic smbolism generally being employed in the royal art.)

As Florius stated - the key is the description of the scales (it describes the Remora). Fulcanelli mentions this cake in his book:

"Of an earthy rather than metallic appearance, this light button, not fusible but very soluble, hard, breakable, friable, black on one side, whitish on the other, violet at its breaking point, has received several names relative to its form, its coloration, or to certain of its chemical idiosyncrasies. It is the secret prototype of the popular bather of the cake of the kings, the charm, (kymanos), paronym of (kyanos, bluish-black), the sabot or wooden shoe (bembex); it is also the cocoon (bombykion) and its worm, whose Greek name, (bombex), is so similar to that of sabot, which has for root (bombos), precisely expressing the sound of a spinning top. It is also the small blackish fish called chabot from which Perrault derived his Chat botte. The famous Marquis of Carabas, from (Kara), head and (basileus), king, of the hermetic legends dear to our youth and gathered under the title, Tales of Our Mother Goose, also has relevance; it is, finally, the basil of the fable --- (basilikon) --- our regulus (little king) or kinglet (basiliskos), the fur slipper (because it is white and grey) of the humble Cinderella, the sole, the flat fish of which each side is differently colored and whose name is related to sun (Latin sol, solis), etc. In the oral tradition of the Adepts, however, this body is usually called by the term violet, the first flower that the sage can see being born and blooming during the springtime of the Work, transforming into a new color the green of its flower bed... "

"Cake of the kings" is, of course, the English translation of "Galette de Rois".

 

[Michael Sternbach]

So according to Fulcanelli, the cake represents the matter of the Opus Magnum? If that assumption is correct, the bean (hidden in the cake) could symbolize the essence of the matter aka the Philosopher's Stone. Just like the former 'turns a peasant into a king', the latter transmutes a base metal into gold.

What say you?

 

[Florius Frammel]

It's literally a "multi-layered" symbol.

Fulcanelli also said on some occassions he had seen an oak (also symbol for the tree of knowledge of good and evil) instead of the pattern on the cake.

See for example this version of the images from the book of Abraham dem Juden:

The french call the bean dauphin (heir to the throne) and it sounds like "dolphin", an animal often used in alchemical images and texts. For example Diana rides it on the famous VITRIOL image.

This dolphin is for example the fish(sic!) that is fished by the man on one tile on the oven in Winterthur,

or on one page of the Mutus Liber:

Note that the bean also represents Jesus. He is not yet the messiah on the cross (again?), but still a newborn baby, that is visited by the three wise men on epiphany.

The foliated earth however, according to Jean-Petri Fabre is obtained when our mercury interacts with a metal.

 

[Florius Frammel]

It's also worth noting that according to some sources, Cyliani was (allegedly) one of Fulcanelli's teachers...

Some years ago Green Lion made this assumptions on the lineage.

The author of Compass of the Wise was the Master of Cyliani.
Cyliani was the Master of Dr. G. Perard.
G. Perard was the Master of A.L. Gerber.
And A.L. Gerber was one of the Masters of ... Fulcanelli

I wonder where he got his informations from. Canseliet however says that his master Fulcanelli got initiated by Basilius Valentinus.

 

[Andro]

Some years ago Green Lion made this assumptions on the lineage.

I wonder where he got his informations from. Canseliet however says that his master Fulcanelli got initiated by Basilius Valentinus.

Well, the quote makes the alleged claim that Gerbant (of the ICH/Cyliani lineage) was just ONE of the initiators of Fulcanelli... Basilus may have been another one

I wonder if there are any official and reliable death records for the ones in this lineage who didn't use pseudonyms...

 

[zoas23]

So according to Fulcanelli, the cake represents the matter of the Opus Magnum? If that assumption is correct,

When it comes to Fulcanelli, you certainly have to forget that these three statements are different:

-This *whatever* reminds me of *this other whatever*.
-This *whatever* is a symbol of *this other whatever*.
-This *whatever* is a depiction of *this other whatever*.

... Fulcanelli's enthusiasm often did not see a difference between these three ideas. It is possible that the only connection between the cake and *something alchemical* is that Fulcanelli saw a resemblance... I guess that if we had a time machine and we could trace the inventor of this specific cake, we could ask him if he had an alchemical idea in mind as to confirm of discard the puproseful resemblance that Fulcanelli saw... though, in the long run, the answer of the inventor of this cake would be pointless. It gets interesting because Fulcanelli created an allegory with it and it does not matter if the allegory exists beyond the imagination of Fulcanelli or not (when it comes to him, my idea is that most of the resemblances he saw are not intentional and they are only interesting because he explained something worthy with them).

 

[Florius Frammel]

Well, the quote makes the alleged claim that Gerbant (of the ICH/Cyliani lineage) was just ONE of the initiators of Fulcanelli... Basilus may have been another one

I wonder if there are any official and reliable death records for the ones in this lineage who didn't use pseudonyms...

I also guess that Pierre Dujols, who also wrote under the pseudonym "Magaphon" was part of the above mentioned gang.

 

[Florius Frammel]

When it comes to Fulcanelli, you certainly have to forget that these three statements are different:

-This *whatever* reminds me of *this other whatever*.
-This *whatever* is a symbol of *this other whatever*.
-This *whatever* is a depiction of *this other whatever*.

... Fulcanelli's enthusiasm often did not see a difference between these three ideas. It is possible that the only connection between the cake and *something alchemical* is that Fulcanelli saw a resemblance... I guess that if we had a time machine and we could trace the inventor of this specific cake, we could ask him if he had an alchemical idea in mind as to confirm of discard the puproseful resemblance that Fulcanelli saw... though, in the long run, the answer of the inventor of this cake would be pointless. It gets interesting because Fulcanelli created an allegory with it and it does not matter if the allegory exists beyond the imagination of Fulcanelli or not (when it comes to him, my idea is that most of the resemblances he saw are not intentional and they are only interesting because he explained something worthy with them).

Imo he did an awesome good job doing so! And he was quite coherent within his works and others concerning symbols and nomenclature.

I even tend to see his books as my ariadne's thread through the labyrinth of alchemy.

 

[Illen A. Cluf]

So according to Fulcanelli, the cake represents the matter of the Opus Magnum? If that assumption is correct, the bean (hidden in the cake) could symbolize the essence of the matter aka the Philosopher's Stone. Just like the former 'turns a peasant into a king', the latter transmutes a base metal into gold.

What say you?

No, it's not the starting matter. It represents a later stage. The alchemists love to confuse. "Scales" is associated with BOTH the starting matter, as well as this later stage. The first is associated with the scales of a dragon, the second with the "net" appearance of the cake. The "net" also represents the fishing net used to catch the "fish" or dolphin or "Remora".

 

[zoas23]

Imo he did an awesome good job doing so! And he was quite coherent within his works and others concerning symbols and nomenclature.

I even tend to see his books as my ariadne's thread through the labyrinth of alchemy.

Of course, a lot of alchemical authors saw resemblances with the most diverse things... from Biology (i.e, comparing processes to processes of the human body, thus we have "digestions")... or it can be the Bible (the Genesis is a classic). As long as the allegory works, it's valid.
Fulcanelli obviously liked Alchemy, but he also liked the classical French culture and he wanted to see both things as mirrors... Take it for granted that he could have written "The Mystery of the Human Body" and probably find his mirror in our anatomy... I really don't think that most of his allegories existed before he imagined them, but I don't think either that we need to demonstrate that the inventor of the cake had an alchemical intention, in the long run, if the allegory works, then such intention is not needed... and if it doesn't work, the intention has no use.

 

[Florius Frammel]

Most of the symbols and allegories he used were well established already though.

Even some you would guess he made up on his own, were 'borrowed' from others.

For example he described a wall painting on a house where a guy sharpened something on a whetstone and declared that as an alchemical symbol and I also first thought that it would be a bit far-feched.

Later however I discovered (among others) the same symbol explained in the exact way like Fulcanelli did in a text called "De Azote" by a certain Sévéros from 1810.

So one can assume that despite of some quite strange looking connections, that guy was pretty well informed.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

This discussion could benefit from considering Jung's distinction between symbols and signs. Symbols are multilayered and deeply rooted in the unconscious. Thus, an artist expressing their inner vision may indeed not be fully aware of everything that any symbol employed by them conveys to the beholder. In fact, beholder A's interpretation may in some ways differ from beholder B's interpretation, as each will bring their own background into play; yet, it cannot be said that one interpretation is 'objectively speaking' right and the other one is wrong.

Now signs are a different animal. They stand for a clearly defined object or occurrence. Just think of traffic signs... No good if they left too much room for individual interpretation!

​

In alchemy, we are dealing with both symbols and signs - and telling one from the other is not always an easy matter! E.g., in his study of alchemical writings, sometimes Jung saw nothing but a symbol for something of psychological nature, when the author was referring to a particular substance or laboratory operation, thus the 'symbol' was in fact a sign.

It goes without saying that in a Hermetic context, both symbols and signs are based on a network of analogies that permeates all of creation.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

No, it's not the starting matter. It represents a later stage. The alchemists love to confuse. "Scales" is associated with BOTH the starting matter, as well as this later stage. The first is associated with the scales of a dragon, the second with the "net" appearance of the cake. The "net" also represents the fishing net used to catch the "fish" or dolphin or "Remora".

Is the alchemists' intention really to confuse, though? Or may they in truth be subtly hinting at hidden relations between seemingly unconnected things in a case like the given one? Therefore aiming at enlightening whoever is ready to receive the message?

By that I don't mean to say that they have never been ambiguous on purpose... I just like to emphasize that the confusion that sometimes results from alchemical texts in the reader's mind can be due to a variety of reasons.

 

[Illen A. Cluf]

Is the alchemists' intention really to confuse, though? Or may they in truth be subtly hinting at hidden relations between seemingly unconnected things in a case like the given one? Therefore aiming at enlightening whoever is ready to receive the message?

By that I don't mean to say that they have never been ambiguous on purpose... I just like to emphasize that the confusion that sometimes results from alchemical texts in the reader's mind can be due to a variety of reasons.

Absolutely. The "confusion" that appears at first is due to lack of deeper understanding. The more you read, consider, and begin to understand, the less confusing the symbolism becomes. By "confusion" I mean that the alchemists liked to set up roadblocks to steer away those who are not willing to study long and deep enough, and just looking for simple solutions.

 

[Florius Frammel]

@Michael:

It's interesting to compare Jung's definition of symbols with what Pierre Dujols writes about them in his preface on his comments on the Mutus Liber:

Around the Mutus Liber an absurd legend has formed itself. One school - which has nothing hermetic except the name - has given this work a reputation of impenetrable obscurity, and as such, worships it as a sacrament, without understanding it. This is an error; even as translating Mutus Liber by the Mute book, without words, is a philosophical misnomer. All the signs adopted by human industry to manifest thought are words. The Latins - this word suitably intended - call drawing, painting, sculpture and architecture, by means of which the Hierogrammates1 reserved for the elect the mysteries of science, mutæ artes, which means the symbolic arts.

What is then a symbol? Συμβολον is a convention; Συμβολον, a sign of recognition. Hence a symbol is that which we today call a “code”, a tacit system of writing adopted for diplomatic and even commercial correspondence, for telegraphic and semaphoric communications etc… For an illiterate person, all books are mutus. A volume in Hebrew, Sanskrit, Chinese is a Mutus Liber, a mute book, for the majority, even though they be instructed in their proper language. One has then, to get used to this very simple idea, that the Mutus Liber is a book like all the others and can be plainly read, once one has the grille...

So at least the french branch at the beginning of the 20th century had the same understanding like Jung.

@Illen

we are proposing, without leaving the philosophers mantle, to facilitate the lecture, by a sincere interpretation, to the true inquisitors of science, honest, patient and laborious like the diligent bees, and not to the curious, idle and frivolous, who pass their lives uselessly fluttering from book to book without ever pausing at one to extract the mellific substance.

Each time one rereads a good alchemical text, one discovers something new. Especially when also reading others and making own experiments and then come back to some books you consider very good. It's almost as if reading a whole new book sometimes.