Thomas's Alchemical Insights: Bacstrom Gloria Mundi

[Thomas Lacroft]

Hello friends, I'm currently in the middle of the Great Work using the processes outlined by:

Rosicrucian Aphorisms and Process - Bacstrom
Gloria Mundi
An Open Entrance to the Closed Palace of the King

As well as general guidance from other successful Cooks, who I've been very fortunate to get in contact with. On the advice of @Andro , I made this thread to generally give my insights, as well as seek guidance if things go haywire.

Actually, I hope this is permitted, but I have an account on yt here: https://www.youtube.com/@CookingAlchemist/shorts

I just post how the stone is looking so far.

I'm not an expert, I'm a novice. My experiment(s) will probably fail, and that's perfectly okay , I'm here to learn and have fun. I've screwed up my work already several times hehe, but that's just the nature of an imperfect man attempting to create a Perfect Stone ^_^.

Monday August 19th, 2024, Day #15:

I've noticed that the jar is getting darker and darker as the process continues. Ideally, by the time it clears up, it should be fairly dark and clear. But who knows, I'm new .

 

[Illen A. Cluf]

So by "apple juice" you mean fresh urine, right?

 

[Thomas Lacroft]

So by "apple juice" you mean fresh urine, right?

Ethically and sustainably sourced ;-)

 

[Jimmy Rig]

There is more than one golden liquid. Urine is gold because of the blood plasma therein. If you let it settle for a while all the white sediment that falls out initially is salts, urea etc.
Its been mentioned here that a quintessence can be extracted from urine in theory but its not a very efficient process because of the minute amount. Its mostly water.
If you gently evaporate the golden fluid it will get darker and turn a red color.

 

[Thomas Lacroft]

There is more than one golden liquid. Urine is gold because of the blood plasma therein. If you let it settle for a while all the white sediment that falls out initially is salts, urea etc.
Its been mentioned here that a quintessence can be extracted from urine in theory but its not a very efficient process because of the minute amount. Its mostly water.
If you gently evaporate the golden fluid it will get darker and turn a red color.

Thank you Jimmy , what other golden liquids are you recommending?

My plan is to distill off the water when the time is right and I'll save it for other/later purposes

 

[Jimmy Rig]

This is a post from the Spiritus Mundi thread, post #1373 for the full version. The purple linked "THIS POST" by Green Lion is good reading also.

Some thoughts about THIS POST.

From Green Lion
"It would be interesting to do the same thing with the oil that you extract the GW through the ether and to compare results.
Because if your oil is the same as that which I speak, you've found an extremely easy and fast way to get the red oil of the GW".

Green Lion wrote this 13 years ago ...."and to compare results".

Have these comparisons been confirmed between Andro's Oil and Green Lions Oil ???

Green Lion is not a fool, he is a very intelligent Alchemist and so much more.

He knows exactly what Alchemic GW (Golden Water) is and he also knows what it is not.

GW is the Alchemic Golden Water ..... anyone that is working with SM (Spiritus Mundi)
knows what it is and the only similarity it has to human urine is that they both look
the same .... thats all and nothing else.

Hence the reason why alchemists over hundreds of years have referred to it as urine or piss
in many of their books which has unfortunately deluded many students of this work and
continues to do so to this day.

Anyone that does not know the difference between these two very different substances should walk away from Alchemy now and save themselves from a lot of heart ache in the future.

I hope this helps.

 

[Thomas Lacroft]

This is a post from the Spiritus Mundi thread, post #1373 for the full version. The purple linked "THIS POST" by Green Lion is good reading also.

I hope this helps.

A very important thread, thank you for sharing, sir.

If it's all the same to you, dear friend, I'll keep playing with my piss . I believe it holds many secrets, as inefficient as it might be, hehe. Truly a most profound curiosity, in my opinion.

I'll also continue pondering what was said, though, because I'm well and truly a novice in these sacred arts. Thank you, again

 

[Selcuk]

I think an interesting experiment would be to precipitate the urine with magnesium, magnesium - ammonium - phosphate would be the final result,

 

[Lakshmana]

Green Lion was talking about Urine in those posts. @Jimmy Rig

 

[Jimmy Rig]

If it's all the same to you, dear friend, I'll keep playing with my piss . I believe it holds many secrets, as inefficient as it might be, hehe. Truly a most profound curiosity, in my opinion.

It makes no difference to me, I also experimented with urine quite a bit in the past.
I do believe it can be used in Alchemy, but there are more efficient substances to work with. Best of luck in any case..

Green Lion was talking about Urine in those posts. @Jimmy Rig

It appears that you are right. As I stated above I believe it can be used but it is not the most efficient IMO and you still need to know how to work it Alchemically in any case. I am sure it will be a good learning experience at the very least. My point of quoting the post is that there are other "golden waters" used in alchemy that visually look like urine but are nothing like urine.

His "recipe"was to form an alkahest for the metals not to extract a quintessence to my understanding.
The development of a strong spirit which I know from experience can be done with urine. (never dissolved gold but have dissolved silver with it before.)

 

[black]

Green Lion was talking about Urine in those posts. @Jimmy Rig

This is the type of statement that I have become accustomed to expect from members that think they have an Understanding of Alchemy or an Understanding of Green Lions posts.

In my opinion Green Lion is most Adept at the Theory and Practice of Alchemy and because of this he does not always write openly and clearly for the students of Alchemy to Understand.

A large amount of what he has written is for those that have Entered and will Enter into Alchemy.

From the thread "The White Stone of Urine" #5 Green Lion has entered 8 photos that are no longer
to be seen on this forum.

I have saved all of Green Lions posts and photos .... but it would not be correct of me to re-post these missing photos.

On the 7 photo Green Lion wrote:

Finally, a red oil can be obtained by leaving Golden Water evaporate slowly.

I strongly encourage those members that think Green Lion is here referring to urine .... to take their urine and evaporate it slowly to see if they can get a Red Oil the same as what he showed in his photo.

I would also ask if any members know what that Red Oil was that Green Lion presented to this forum ?

 

[Thomas Lacroft]

^you can definitely get a red oil, white oil, and various salts from urine using various processes and at various temperatures.

The long and the short of it is that I have been in contact with 4 seperate, unconnected individuals that have used urine to create the red stone, not just white. They have shown me detailed pictures, including of transmutation.

It's a solid method, not the only one, but it's cheap enough for me .

 

[Jimmy Rig]

From the thread "The White Stone of Urine" #5 Green Lion has entered 8 photos that are no longer
to be seen on this forum.

I have saved all of Green Lions posts and photos .... but it would not be correct of me to re-post these missing photos.

On the 7 photo Green Lion wrote:

Finally, a red oil can be obtained by leaving Golden Water evaporate slowly.

I strongly encourage those members that think Green Lion is here referring to urine .... to take their urine and evaporate it slowly to see if they can get a Red Oil the same as what he showed in his photo.

I would also ask if any members know what that Red Oil was that Green Lion presented to this forum ?

Hi Black,

Just to clarify for the other members If you do evaporate urine it will become darker, even red.. but it won't be an alchemic product and not the red oil that Green lion is talking about IMO. One could possibly get to the red oil mentioned by an alchemic extraction of urine which involves much more than a simple evaporation or storage in a jam jar.
The only reason I write this is because it has been mentioned that quintessence can be extracted from urine.

Yes Argento Vivo it's not the Spirit it is the Quintessence that is extracted from urine or blood and it is Specified if it is the Particular Quintessence.

The Universal Quintessence can also be Extracted (preferably from the Blood) and this is not Specific to that person.

I have never seen the photo of the red oil that green lion has posted as you mentioned the photo has been removed so I can't comment on it. I can however infer from his description of the process below that it is obtained from the condensed GW(q.e). Once the transport medium is gone via distillation we have a black residue which holds the sulfur. By distilling this residue strongly we force it(the sulfur) to take flight and become refined/cleaned leaving the impure salt behind.
I assume the 3 distillations prior are to ensure it is mature enough to handle this procedure and make the jump.
His recipe IMO is describing a sequence to be used after collecting a q.e. in a transport medium i.e. the GW.

I feel that this red oil is the same as that obtained by distilling Gw with a certain way.
Indeed, in “classical” practice, we take the GW which distils once.
Then we dry the residue.
We mix the distillate and the residue.
We distil again.
This cycle of distillations is to be performed 3 times.
At the end of three distillations, we put aside the distillate.
Then we have to distil very strongly that it is in the black residue.
By heating very strong, we finally get a red oil of the same type that you have obtained with your extraction with ether.
This oil is very important.

In my opinion Green Lion is most Adept at the Theory and Practice of Alchemy and because of this he does not always write openly and clearly for the students of Alchemy to Understand.

A pertinent point. Had the right idea initially, hence the deliberate use of the acronym GW instead of urine. Noticed Andro did it too.
Thanks for the clarity.

 

[Seraphim]

Thank you Thomas for sharing <3 <3. I left a jar out for one day, does it look normal? The jar may have had some residue. Look forward to learning how you proceed.

 

[Lakshmana]

Since you guys are not afraid of your piss try evaporating it (maybe a liter or two) at 37c open with a cloth so that no dust falls in for 40 days in a large vessel, once it becomes close to being sludge but still liquid put it in a completely sealed flask and keep it at 37-50c for a few months.
This is supposed to eventually make an oil float on top, I'm curious.

Keep it in the dark on something warm (maybe a water boiler)
I've seen both red and white oils come out of urine which float on top of water and are not miscible, by gentle increasing of heat in an alembic and by Di-ethyl ether extraction.

 

[Pilgrim]

It's notable how often Black likes to jump in and try and dissuade people from working with urine or feces with his usual rhetoric of self-agrandisement and derision of everyone else. I suggest that people continue to work on their own journeys and ignore the flak.

Some of Black's previous comments:

Urine being a water is also a total waste of time if you want to Enter into Alchemy.

It's a total waste of time looking for Our Mercury (Secret Solvent, etc) in urine ... but it is possible to extract a Quintessence (Soul) from urine or feces ..... I would also call this a waste of time as the Quintessence (Soul) is so much more abundant in the blood and easier to extract from the blood.

Our Mercury ("Pure" Spiritus Mundi) can "not" be collected from urine and feces.

Quintessence can be extracted from urine and feces that a Transmutation Stone can be made from ..... But this is an extremely long and wasteful (in time) way to work.

There is no SM (Spiritus Mundi) in urine.

I can say with utmost sincerity that nobody who was truly in touch with God and was following God's ways and instructions would parade themselves around a forum with such ridiculous pomposity and abject derision for their fellow men. You must make your own minds up but do it quickly and do not look back.

Here's what Andro stated in regards to Black's statement (my bold):

The above statement either suggests massive ignorance on this topic or malicious intent to deliberately deceive.

"SM" is NOT a "molecule". However, it is omnipresent, and the question is not whether it's present or not (because it always is), but it's a question of availability to be incorporated and hosted in an appropriate carrier medium.

A distilled Spirit from Urine, (for example), after passing from the liquid to gas state and back numerous times, preferably under favorable conditions, will gradually start presenting certain "exotic" changes, denoting an increased presence of incorporated Spiritus.

ALL the so-called "recipes" with Urine or Dew or Rain, etc. are based on this. Such matters are perhaps not the most "subtle" carrier mediums, but they will do (to various extents), with enough repetitions.

Also readers might like to read what the Golden Chain Of Homer says about urine and feces:

"So I reply: (1) Because Nature found them superfluous for maintaining the generated body, she wished to expel them . (2) Because Nature, in accordance with the will of the Creator, does not yet intend to undertake the transformation into the Fifth Essence,
as man is able to do through the Art . And (3) Because Nature directs man to the outflowing discharges (urine etc.) without damage to his body, and to diligently seek therein the necessaries of like for his body, so that he does not need to attack the body itself but only its discharge , which is just as full of power and virtue as the body itself"

"As we intend to describe a true dissection of things, we rightly begin to proceed according to the laws of Nature and finish accord -
ing to her grades of preparation, putrefaction or dissolution , distillation and rectification, of the union or conjunction, coagulation
and fixation . As all Subjects and Individua of the whole wide world differ one from another, it is here in the animal kingdom, where
there are whole bodies with blood, flesh, vains, marrow, bones and skin, urine and excrements. All together they are taken to produce the medicine. Again, one can take the different parts of a body by themselves for the medicine, especially blood, urine, excrements, the legs, skin, hair, horn, etc. and make a special medicine from each part."

"The blood, juice or urine of an animal and what is liquid, either one of these or all together, it does not matter. As they are all made of one substance, although one is more volatile or fixed than another, they have nevertheless one substance, coming from one subject. Put it into a covered vessel and set it in a luke warm place to putrefy. But whoever wishes to avoid the stench, must put it into an alembic, well closed with a head and a recipient, set it into B.M. of the first degree, let it stand for 14 days and nights, and he need not fear the stench."


Up to individuals who they choose to believe. The plethora of past alchemical works, the humble and imho genuinely helpful Andro, or the self-appointed "Authority" Black who delights in trying to convince people they're on the wrong track . . . .

Vulpem pilum mutare, non mores​

 

[Jimmy Rig]

Hes not being disingenuous. He is simply stating that you cannot find SM in urine. He did not say that you cannot get a spirit from urine. Not all spirits are SM and there are specific tests for SM such as the one Black provided on the wet path thread started by uncle scrooge.

In regards to entering into alchemy we have heard time and time again from Black that NO SM=NO ALCHEMY. You don't need to ascribe to that notion, but you may not be an alchemist either. Test your theories and see where you get.
In that specific context of NO SM=NO ALCHEMY he is being very precisely honest in saying that urine is a waste of time for those wishing to enter into alchemy i.e. posessing SM as in his opinion it is not found there. Andro is of a different opinion so choose what you will..

QUINTESSENCE/SOUL/SULFUR and MERCURY/SM ARE NOT THE SAME THING THOUGH SOMETIMES THEY ARE FOUND TOGETHER.

He is also stating that you can extract a quintessence from urine but it is a wasteful way to work (in time) i.e. not very efficient.(because its mostly water) This is exactly the same reason that I mentioned it to Thomas and its not to be rude. Fact of the matter is there are better sources for quintessence but I am not saying "dont touch urine". Been there myself.
This is the same reason he recommends away from rain water, dew etc because the amount of quintessence therein is so small it is not feasible to work with in the lab.
Living materials are containing quintessence.

As far as the Andro/Black thing.. why not learn from both what you can or just stick to one member if that is your fancy.
Ive learned a fair bit from many members.
As an example it recently came to my awareness that Andro was right in that SM can attract a quintessence to itself in a sealed container which I previously discussed with him on another thread believing it was not possible.

My overall point is that it doesn't automatically discredit the other member just because YOU don't see the value.
Your going to resonate with those who's perceptions are more similar to your own generally but keep in mind our perceptions can change.

 

[Pilgrim]

Hes not being disingenuous. He is simply stating that you cannot find SM in urine.

Can't see where anyone in the thread stated that they were trying to find SM in urine. Can you point it out?

In regards to entering into alchemy we have heard time and time again from Black that NO SM=NO ALCHEMY. You don't need to ascribe to that notion, but you may not be an alchemist either. Test your theories and see where you get.

Again, could you point out where in this thread OP or anyone else asked how to "enter into alchemy"? I couldn't find that either.

As far as the Andro/Black thing.. why not learn from both what you can or just stick to one member if that is your fancy.

I think the salient point is that this forum does not need a poster spamming every f'ing thread with the same garbage over and over. It doesn't matter what the thread title or topic is, every thread gets this same "enter into alchemy" rhetoric regardless. It has to stop at some point.

 

[Jimmy Rig]

Can't see where anyone in the thread stated that they were trying to find SM in urine. Can you point it out?

Your right they did not! However you quoted 3 different times Black made mention of it from other threads which only proves that he is of the opinion that looking for SM in urine is a no go which means he is of the opinion that it is a waste of time regarding entering into Alchemy.. which he did not post in this thread. Even if he did it would not be inappropriate as it his his opinion and Thomas is clearly working with urine..

Pilgrim:
Again, could you point out where in this thread OP or anyone else asked how to "enter into alchemy"? I couldn't find that either.

Just responding to one of the quotes you picked from another thread. It was never mentioned here until you decided to quote it.

This forum does not need a poster spamming every f'ing thread with the same garbage over and over

Its literally no different than anytime a member posts about God having some relation to alchemy which you do not agree with you then make it your mission to prove your point.

There are a few of us here with firmly set convictions. We should learn to be more tolerant of one another.
I think a lot of us post our fair share of "garbage" and "pearls" depending on the perception of who reads it.
One mans garbage is another mans treasure.

 

[Jimmy Rig]

Sorry for getting into it again. Thomas best of luck with your experiments and enjoy your studies; it really is a wonderful thing to be interested in and I do not mean to discourage anybody. Keep us posted with your results please.

 

[black]

^you can definitely get a red oil, white oil, and various salts from urine using various processes and at various temperatures.

Hello Thomas Lacroft

Yes ..... but are these results Alchemic ?

The long and the short of it is that I have been in contact with 4 seperate, unconnected individuals that have used urine to create the red stone, not just white. They have shown me detailed pictures, including of transmutation.

Have they described this red stone to you in fine detail ?

What type of transmutation ? .... Alchemic ?

It's a solid method,

The urine Path is a solid method.

not the only one,

No .... it is not the only method written about.

but it's cheap enough for me .

Most definitely cheap enough to spend many years experimenting with.

Thomas I would never discourage anyone from working in their laboratory (research and experimentation) as there is so much to learn from working with scientific glass ware, heaters, coolers, processes, vacuum, pressure, etc, etc.

I would discourage students of Alchemy from believing they can easily get the Great Philosophers Stone from urine.

A great amount of learning through laboratory practice is essential as collecting SM (the Secret Solvent) and working the Primary Alchemic Process is extremely dangerous work for a novice.

Novice = a person new to and inexperienced in a job or situation.

The Urine Path to Alchemy .... and the most important word here is Path.

Many of the so-called Paths to Alchemy are just that .... a pathway in Theory of Practice to Alchemy .... if the correct ingredients are used.

Most of the Pathways written about in the books of Alchemy describe to the students of Alchemy the processes used in the great Alchemic Work.

The results you see working these processes are very similar to what you would encounter in the Alchemic Process .... so these Paths are most valuable as a Teaching exercise.

No Adept Alchemist would ever waste his/her time extracting Quintessence from urine .... it is a non event.

The amount of Red Oil (Quintessence) in urine is infinitesimal, miniscule, insignificant, negligible .... but the

Theory of Practice that is used in the Urine Path is of immense value to those that are able to recognise it.

The many Paths that are written about by the old Master Alchemists give the true foundations for the Theory and Practice for the Great Work.

It is the Great Trap of almost all of the students of Alchemy to interpret most of the books literally (verbatim) .... when reading remember these two words Allegory and Analogy.

I'm looking forward to reading more posts about your lab work and Alchemic development in the years to come.

 

[Thomas Lacroft]

Yes ..... but are these results Alchemic ?

Have they described this red stone to you in fine detail ?

What type of transmutation ? .... Alchemic ?


I'm looking forward to reading more posts about your lab work and Alchemic development in the years to come.

Hello Black ,

Well, it's good to converse with a knowledgeable alchemist. Just out of curiosity, my good man, are you a successful Cook? I understand the sensitive nature of such a question, so feel free to ignore it . Perhaps we can discuss the urine path in detail in a more private setting.

Yes, according to them, the smell is kind of indescribable but pleasant. It's surprisingly sweet and heavy. The white stone itself smells like good bread. The black stage is a horrifying corpse smell.

These are just the "major" stages. Actually, one alchemist didn't have a black stage, it went grey with an accompanying death smell. She made it work, though. She cooked at a higher temperature than recommended, so I'm trying to think about how I'm going to go about it - traditionally or with higher temperatures.

I'm assuming that turning 50 grams of copper into (a much smaller amount of) real gold is, by definition, an alchemical reaction. I don't think that's possible by any other means, but if I'm wrong, please elucidate me.

Personally, I find the substance to be altogether paranormal and completely defying of logic. I'd prefer to study it more scientifically, if possible, without the outdated paradigms of the past. I'm not sure that will yield any positive results (from me anyway).

Thank you, I'll keep you updated on my progress. Have a pleasant day .

 

[Thomas Lacroft]

Sorry for getting into it again. Thomas best of luck with your experiments and enjoy your studies; it really is a wonderful thing to be interested in and I do not mean to discourage anybody. Keep us posted with your results please.

Thank you so much Jimmy , I've already learned so much in such a short time while here. I really appreciate your warm welcome.

-----------

Please gentlemen, I won't be posting frequent, daily updates because in truth, as most of you already know, cooking the stones is like watching paint dry in the most agonizingly sedentary manner. Unless I see major changes and feel like it's worth your time, I'll refrain from meaningless posts.

 

[Andro]

Rosicrucian Aphorisms and Process - Bacstrom
Gloria Mundi
An Open Entrance to the Closed Palace of the King

You could also study Hollandus' Urine Treatise and George Ripley's Liber Secretissimus, which both describe works with Urine as a literal (not allegorical) subject.

 

[Thomas Lacroft]

Thank you Thomas for sharing <3 <3. I left a jar out for one day, does it look normal? The jar may have had some residue. Look forward to learning how you proceed.

Hello, dear Seraphim ,

Good job on taking the first step! Wow, that's one day's work?

It's looking quite settled and that's a great sign.

I strongly, strongly recommend keeping it between 32-43 C for the first 40 days, until all of the matter has settled on the bottom. This will help speed things up considerably.

Best of luck in your journey!