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. The Secret Solvent

elixirmixer

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Im clearly not the smartest tool in the shed.. but it seems blatantly obvious that the secret solvent requires a developed form of the prima materia... am i right?

So the discussion here seems rather fruitless (imo) because no one seems to be bothering to discuss the progression of first matter into the secret solvent.

Why is it that alchemy (and alchemist) always chose the convenience of ignorance rather than holding to what we know to be true...

No prima materia, no secret solvent.
No secret solvent, no alchemy.

Salts and acids have nothing to do with what ought to be the topic of this conversation. Shouldnt this conversation be geared towards how the prima materia becomes the secret solvent???

Correct me if im wrong....
 

elixirmixer

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No offence intended at all; but i think that antimony is once again a dead end.

They used the "Star of Antimony" as an analogy because Our Matter takes the form of a 'star' at a certain point of its progression.

Common people.... get it together!! :cool:
 

Florius Frammel

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No offence intended at all; but i think that antimony is once again a dead end.

They used the "Star of Antimony" as an analogy because Our Matter takes the form of a 'star' at a certain point of its progression.

Common people.... get it together!! :cool:

You can actually make the "regulus of antimony" look like a star though.
 

elixirmixer

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You can actually make the "regulus of antimony" look like a star though.

Yes... this is my point exactly. It looks like a star, our matter takes on a similar appearance during its development... hence the analogy/cryptic use of the term Star of Antimony. Because of the resemblance to the star commonly seen/known in the "antimony path".
 

Esche

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Oh man in this wirld, wich I can't understand in an alchemy forum is such fanatic scepticism. I will not discuss anything with the stupid bahavior, nor reveal step by step in photos and details of paths and processes from the precious sercret wich alchemy is, nor even send a sample to an anonymous person. My words are founded in truth any experient alchemist could read it clearly and comprehend that. If I've commited errors or mistakes, for you point of view based on if I distill or not, if I get solve it or not, please share your perfect work with us in photos, step by step, the correct and definitive way to do this or that. Even if it was a graphic match it will be so fine to me. I'm sorry, I don't need to proof anything to anyone. I can't understand why a lot of kind of people doing nothing pass all the time to critisizes anyone in alchemy forums who wanna develope a philosophical and true dialog about alchemy. What you are doing here, any book of alchemy in the history will not give you what you are requiring and so them is worldwhile credited and a million of people pick up books of alchemy, what proof they do with words? the same will happens or still happens here?


Follow some important tracks from the "Rosarium Philosophorum":

Alphidius: "Argent vive is fire whereupon the Philosopher said, "Know therefore that Argent vive is fire and burns bodies more than fire".

We are the beginning and first nature of metals,
Art by us maketh the chief tincture.
There is no fountain nor water found like unto me.
I heal and help both the rich and the poor,
But yet I am full of hurtful poison.

"The juices of Lunaria, Aqua Vitae, Fifth Essence, Spirit of wine, mercury vegetable, are all one. The juices of Lunaria is made of our wine, which thing is known but to few of our children, and with it is our solution made, and our potable gold is made, that being the mean thereof and cannot be without it".
...
Calidus the Philosopher speaks of our water: "For it is a fire which burneth and grindeth all things, Argent vive is vinegar".

Socrates in the Turba: "The first force is vinegar, that is Argent vive".

Turba: "If you set the body on the fire without vinegar, it will be burnt, that is without Argent vive ... It is most sharp vinegar which maketh the mere body without which no colour cometh".
"Note well in the art of our magistery, nothing is concealed of the Philosophers, except the secret of the art, which is not lawful to be revealed to any man, for he that should do so would be accursed, and incur the indignation of the Lord and die with the palsy. Wherefore, all error is in the art, because they take not their due matter out of it, therefore use reverent nature; of it, by it, and in it, our art is engendered and in no other thing, and therefore our magistery is a work of nature and not of a workman. And so he which knoweth not the beginning, obtaineth not the end, and he which knoweth not what he seeks is ignorant also what he shall find".
"Know therefore that copper, which is the gold of the Philosophers, is their gold, but Senior said "Our gold is not common gold". And you have sought after the greenness, thinking that copper had been a leprous body by reason of that greenness which it hath. Whereupon, I tell you that all that is perfect in copper is only that greenness which is in it, because that greenness is by our magistery quickly turned into our most pure gold, and this we have tried, but you can by no means prepare the stone without green and liquid Duenech, which is seen to grow in our minerals. 0 blessed greenness, which engenders all things. You know that no vegetable and fruit appeareth in growing but it is of a green colour. Know therefore, that the generation of this thing is green, wherefore the Philosophers have called it their growing or springing".

Morienus: Three forms suffice for the whole magistery that is white fume, that is the first force, that is to say celestial water, and the Green Lion, which is the Copper of Hermes, and stinking water, which is the mother of all metals, of the which, by the which, and with the which, the Philosophers prepare Elixir in the beginning and the end. Therefore conceal from no man these three forms to the perfection thereof, but a fool handleth this magistery about every other thing.

Gratianus: "In Alchemy there is a certain noble body which is removed from master to master, in the beginning whereof misery will be with Vinegar but in the end joy with gladness".
 

Kiorionis

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So the discussion here seems rather fruitless (imo) because no one seems to be bothering to discuss the progression of first matter into the secret solvent.

IMO, this discussion would be fruitless for most people as well. Rather, I’ve found it more practically applicable to focus on how the First Matter (Spiritus Mundi) fixes into the Secret Solvent in action. No ‘motion’ = no ‘involution’.

Why is it that alchemy (and alchemist) always chose the convenience of ignorance rather than holding to what we know to be true...

No prima materia, no secret solvent.
No secret solvent, no alchemy.

How sure are you that this is true?

Salts and acids have nothing to do with what ought to be the topic of this conversation. Shouldnt this conversation be geared towards how the prima materia becomes the secret solvent???

Correct me if im wrong....

Salts and acids may not, but alkalinity and acidity certainly do. Again, just my opinion.
 

Esche

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Esche, please post a larger image. I think you're showing gold bars in your picture but not sure...

Sorry but I'm unable to do that. The already deafault limit on the forum's scripting query to jpg extensions attachmments is around 16kb.
 

JDP

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The same problem occurs when extracting sulfur of antimony with regular vinegar. B.V. himself tells elsewhere how to sharpen the vinegar: Add Sal Ammoniac to the vinegar and distill the mixture. That worked with my extraction of Sulfur of Antimony.
But I doubt a red tincture will form with copper compounds. Those are usually blue or green, whereas iron compounds most likely are yellow to red. I suspect impurities might play a role here too.

But here Valentine is describing a distilled product, not a solution. When distilled, copper acetates do not give any such "red oil" as he describes.
 

Andro

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Logistical Post

Sorry but I'm unable to do that. The already default limit on the forum's scripting query to jpg extensions attachments is around 16kb.

Host your images on an external image-hosting site and then embed them in your posts here, just like (almost) everyone else on this forum. See this: Posting Images & Videos

There's also the more efficient way of having your own Image Album/Gallery hosted OUTSIDE the Forum.

Two excellent image hosting sites are http://imageshack.us and https://imgur.com. I personally use (and recommend) https://imgur.com - very comfortable and user-friendly.

You can register on such a site and use it to upload all your pictures/images.

For every image you upload there, you get an image link to post on forums, and it usually already includes the
B].....[B]
brackets.

I found it to be the best way to show images here.

It is highly recommended to use the External Hosting option described above as well as HERE.
 

Florius Frammel

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But here Valentine is describing a distilled product, not a solution. When distilled, copper acetates do not give any such "red oil" as he describes.

No, only the vinegar is distilled with sal ammoniac. The distillate is poured upon the pulverized glass of antimony. The then obtained solution is yellow.
But as I already said, I don't think that a copper compound is the reason for a redness in a solution.
 

JDP

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Im clearly not the smartest tool in the shed.. but it seems blatantly obvious that the secret solvent requires a developed form of the prima materia... am i right?

So the discussion here seems rather fruitless (imo) because no one seems to be bothering to discuss the progression of first matter into the secret solvent.

Why is it that alchemy (and alchemist) always chose the convenience of ignorance rather than holding to what we know to be true...

No prima materia, no secret solvent.
No secret solvent, no alchemy.

Salts and acids have nothing to do with what ought to be the topic of this conversation. Shouldnt this conversation be geared towards how the prima materia becomes the secret solvent???

Correct me if im wrong....

You are of course just ASSUMING WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that this "prima materia" actually exists, or that it can actually be isolated and manipulated as if it was a real substance. Therefore what is truly fruitless is to waste time in such speculative discussions that truly lead nowhere. It is far more interesting and profitable to ponder and investigate what are the REAL AND TANGIBLE SUBSTANCES that the alchemists manipulated in order to make the secret solvent.
 

JDP

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Oh man in this wirld, wich I can't understand in an alchemy forum is such fanatic scepticism. I will not discuss anything with the stupid bahavior, nor reveal step by step in photos and details of paths and processes from the precious sercret wich alchemy is, nor even send a sample to an anonymous person. My words are founded in truth any experient alchemist could read it clearly and comprehend that. If I've commited errors or mistakes, for you point of view based on if I distill or not, if I get solve it or not, please share your perfect work with us in photos, step by step, the correct and definitive way to do this or that. Even if it was a graphic match it will be so fine to me. I'm sorry, I don't need to proof anything to anyone. I can't understand why a lot of kind of people doing nothing pass all the time to critisizes anyone in alchemy forums who wanna develope a philosophical and true dialog about alchemy. What you are doing here, any book of alchemy in the history will not give you what you are requiring and so them is worldwhile credited and a million of people pick up books of alchemy, what proof they do with words? the same will happens or still happens here?


Follow some important tracks from the "Rosarium Philosophorum":

Alphidius: "Argent vive is fire whereupon the Philosopher said, "Know therefore that Argent vive is fire and burns bodies more than fire".

We are the beginning and first nature of metals,
Art by us maketh the chief tincture.
There is no fountain nor water found like unto me.
I heal and help both the rich and the poor,
But yet I am full of hurtful poison.

"The juices of Lunaria, Aqua Vitae, Fifth Essence, Spirit of wine, mercury vegetable, are all one. The juices of Lunaria is made of our wine, which thing is known but to few of our children, and with it is our solution made, and our potable gold is made, that being the mean thereof and cannot be without it".
...
Calidus the Philosopher speaks of our water: "For it is a fire which burneth and grindeth all things, Argent vive is vinegar".

Socrates in the Turba: "The first force is vinegar, that is Argent vive".

Turba: "If you set the body on the fire without vinegar, it will be burnt, that is without Argent vive ... It is most sharp vinegar which maketh the mere body without which no colour cometh".
"Note well in the art of our magistery, nothing is concealed of the Philosophers, except the secret of the art, which is not lawful to be revealed to any man, for he that should do so would be accursed, and incur the indignation of the Lord and die with the palsy. Wherefore, all error is in the art, because they take not their due matter out of it, therefore use reverent nature; of it, by it, and in it, our art is engendered and in no other thing, and therefore our magistery is a work of nature and not of a workman. And so he which knoweth not the beginning, obtaineth not the end, and he which knoweth not what he seeks is ignorant also what he shall find".
"Know therefore that copper, which is the gold of the Philosophers, is their gold, but Senior said "Our gold is not common gold". And you have sought after the greenness, thinking that copper had been a leprous body by reason of that greenness which it hath. Whereupon, I tell you that all that is perfect in copper is only that greenness which is in it, because that greenness is by our magistery quickly turned into our most pure gold, and this we have tried, but you can by no means prepare the stone without green and liquid Duenech, which is seen to grow in our minerals. 0 blessed greenness, which engenders all things. You know that no vegetable and fruit appeareth in growing but it is of a green colour. Know therefore, that the generation of this thing is green, wherefore the Philosophers have called it their growing or springing".

Morienus: Three forms suffice for the whole magistery that is white fume, that is the first force, that is to say celestial water, and the Green Lion, which is the Copper of Hermes, and stinking water, which is the mother of all metals, of the which, by the which, and with the which, the Philosophers prepare Elixir in the beginning and the end. Therefore conceal from no man these three forms to the perfection thereof, but a fool handleth this magistery about every other thing.

Gratianus: "In Alchemy there is a certain noble body which is removed from master to master, in the beginning whereof misery will be with Vinegar but in the end joy with gladness".

Apparently you also don't understand what "decknamen" are. "Vinegar" in all these quotations above is NOT the vulgar acid we all know and consume in our salads. You would have to be very inexperienced and naive to think that a "tribe" like the alchemists, with their elitist mindset, would actually reveal things so clearly that just about even any random idiot could easily carry them out. On top of that, anyone who has worked with acetates knows that what I pointed to you is 100% true. They are very common, vulgar, ordinary salts that on their own have ZERO transmuting effects on any metals. And finally, if you actually bothered to read some of the sources you quoted, you would plainly see that this "vinegar" does things that actual vinegar does NOT. Example, taken from the Turba:

Pound the same with the sharpest vinegar, and cook till it becomes thick, taking care lest the vinegar be changed into smoke and perish; continue this coction for 150 days. Now, therefore, I have demonstrated the disposition of the white lead, all which afterwards follows being no more than women's work and child's play. Know, also, that the arcanum of the work of gold proceeds out of the male and the female, but I have shewn you the male in the lead, while, in like manner, I have discovered for you the female in orpiment. Mix, therefore, the orpiment with the lead, for the female rejoices in receiving the strength of the male, because she is assisted by the male. But the male receives a tingeing spirit from the female. Mix them, therefore, together, place in a glass vessel, and pound with Ethelia and very sharp vinegar; cook for seven days, taking care lest the arcanum smoke away, and leave throughout the night.

Where have you ever seen actual vinegar BECOME THICKER UNTIL IT BECOMES A SOLID, or give such an appearance, WITHOUT EVAPORATING IT (i.e. "taking care lest the vinegar be changed into smoke and perish")??? Or when have you ever seen actual vinegar VOLATILIZE THE THINGS IT DISSOLVES ("taking care lest the arcanum smoke away")??? You would have to be extremely naive and inexperienced to think that actual vinegar, which is nothing but a vulgar mixture of common water and acetic acid, could possibly gradually "coagulate" into a solid by "coction" or volatilize the substances it dissolves. Only the SECRET SOLVENT can perform such things, and it sure as heck is NOT actual vinegar!
 

JDP

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No, only the vinegar is distilled with sal ammoniac. The distillate is poured upon the pulverized glass of antimony. The then obtained solution is yellow.
But as I already said, I don't think that a copper compound is the reason for a redness in a solution.

I was referring to the quotation I gave earlier. He dissolves the verdigris in the secret solvent (the "distilled vinegar"), crystallizes the new "vitriol" that formed, and then strongly distills it in a retort. He gets a red "oil". Such a thing will NEVER happen if you use actual distilled vinegar by itself (in other words, if you interpret this part of the instructions 100% literally and use actual distilled vinegar.)
 

Florius Frammel

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I was referring to the quotation I gave earlier. He dissolves the verdigris in the secret solvent (the "distilled vinegar"), crystallizes the new "vitriol" that formed, and then strongly distills it in a retort. He gets a red "oil". Such a thing will NEVER happen if you use actual distilled vinegar by itself (in other words, if you interpret this part of the instructions 100% literally and use actual distilled vinegar.)

Ah. Ok!
B.V. actually must have called at least four different liquids/substances "vinegar". The regular, the distilled, the sharpened and the secret solvent.

I wonder what he used on extracting the sulfur of antimony but I guess it's the sharpened, as it delivers the right observations. He also says this process is something for neophytes, so I don't think he used the secret solvent upon the glass.
 

JDP

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Ah. Ok!
B.V. actually must have called at least four different liquids/substances "vinegar". The regular, the distilled, the sharpened and the secret solvent.

I wonder what he used on extracting the sulfur of antimony but I guess it's the sharpened, as it delivers the right observations. He also says this process is something for neophytes, so I don't think he used the secret solvent upon the glass.

Yes, I think so too. That procedure with the "glass" of antimony was not a big secret, so the alchemical solvent was not involved. It is really a spagyrical procedure.
 

Michael Sternbach

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You are of course just ASSUMING WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that this "prima materia" actually exists, or that it can actually be isolated and manipulated as if it was a real substance. Therefore what is truly fruitless is to waste time in such speculative discussions that truly lead nowhere. It is far more interesting and profitable to ponder and investigate what are the REAL AND TANGIBLE SUBSTANCES that the alchemists manipulated in order to make the secret solvent.

First making an assumption, then finding evidence to support it, oftentimes that's how science works.
 

JDP

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First making an assumption, then finding evidence to support it, oftentimes that's how science works.

Correction: first making an assumption BASED ON OBSERVED FACTS, not "out of the blue"!
 

Esche

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Please insert some external and classical source that vinegar isn't vinegar in alchemy at all overall scientific sources.



If you find something like is about it: "vinegar wich is Mercury". Translating for you: after a month in digestion with the Stone in the proper degree of heat, the Mercury was solved by vinegar, the vinegar and Mercury are now just one together. But the Mercury per si or vinegar or salt will not change or transmute any metal, without the Stone wich is the Sulphur.

The Mercury in digestion act as a role like the enzimatic action breacking the chain of starch, it's for the reason by wich the Mercury is the solvent of the Stone. Scientificaly this is an oxymercuration process.

The setence of equation between vinegar, spirit of whine (etc.) and Mercury stay in the same way that in the spagiric concepts of the plants extractions of the alchemical principles. In the majority of alchemical trateases is made a desambiguation between distilled and pure, by the following terms: spirit of vinegar and vinegar. I already saw pure vinegar.

Vinegar: Vinegar is roughly 3–9% acetic acid by volume, making acetic acid the main component of vinegar apart from water.

All these setences about the solvent used to perform the classical transmutative alchemical tincturies makes a lot of confusions between alchemists, chemists, and all the scientists in minecraft processes wich ensure hight purity in refining, because except the Mercury none of them is by deafault a role in any process of mineration of precious metals.

I believe that a revolution on the matter had to be done centuries ago, not just because the roll of volatile spirits playing an archetypical role as vehicle in transmutative ticntures, but the amorphes cristalizations of pure gold, wich is a paradox. Well, if you will trade this gold some properties inherent to the element could not be defined, and they will do a complete dissolution of the "pure" gold in aqua regia, nitric acid, or in hydrochloridric acid, recovering it after decantation, filtration and melting it again. By this refining process the remaining metal in solid state (resembles the prima materia) is pure gold without any doubt with all properties (color, density, maleability, reactivity etc).

If a transmutative tincture was made by the path of dissolution of the alchemical principles in a canonical solution of Aqua Regia, this tincture could be recovered always by filtration after projected upon any metal. Then, the constants and all variables from the quantic chaos over the matter is dominated, see the role of Avogrado's constant (6,06x10^23) in the quantitative particles of the matter and in calcs for chemical reactions.

The path to perform in hours or just one day the Great Work came from old alchemical trateases or dialogs for the breath dry paths ("via sica brevis"), and never was applied to the wet path, if not just by Albertus, the great in "Le composé des composés".




Welcome tho the insight future. See all imagery, classified, all treasure of the ancient world, from all nation, restored like the past of all mankind was yesterday.

Dedicated to all past souls.
 
Last edited:

JDP

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Please insert some external and classical source that vinegar isn't vinegar in alchemy at all overall scientific sources.



If you find something like is about it: "vinegar wich is Mercury". Ttranslating for you: after a month in digestion with the Stone in the proper degree of heat, the Mercury was solved by vinegar, the vinegar and Mercury are now just one together. But the Mercury per si or vinegar or salt will not change or transmute any metal, without the Stone wich is the Sulphur.

The Mercury in digestion act as a role like the enzimatic action breacking the chain of amid, it's for the reason by wich the Mercury is the solvent of the Stone. Scientificaly this is an oxymercuration process.

The setence of equation between vinegar, spirit of whine (etc.) and Mercury stay in the same way that in the spagiric concepts of the plants extractions of the alchemical principles. In the majority of alchemical trateases is made a desambiguation between distilled and pure, by the following terms: spirit of vinegar and vinegar. I already saw pure vinegar.

Vinegar: Vinegar is roughly 3–9% acetic acid by volume, making acetic acid the main component of vinegar apart from water.

All these setences about the solvent used to perform the classical transmutative alchemical tincturies makes a lot of confusions between alchemists, chemists, and all the scientists in minecraft processes wich ensure hight purity in refining, because except the Mercury none of them is by deafault a role in any process of mineration of precious metals.

I believe that a revolution on the matter had to be done centuries ago, not just because the roll of volatile spirits playing an archetypical role as vehicle in transmutative ticntures, but the amorphes cristalizations of pure gold, wich is a paradox. Well, if you will trade this gold some properties inherent to the element could not be defined, and they will do a complete dissolution of the "pure" gold in aqua regia, nitric acid, or in hydrochloridric acid, recovering it after decantation, filtration and melting it again. By this refining process the remaining metal in solid state (resembles the prima materia) is pure gold without any doubt with all properties (color, density, maleability, reactivity etc).

If a transmutative tincture was made by the path of dissolution of the alchemical principles in a canonical solution of Aqua Regia, this tincture could be recovered always by filtration after projected upon any metal. Then, the constants and all variables from the quantic chaos over the matter is dominated, see the role of Avogrado's constant (6,06x10^23) in the quantitative particles of the matter and in calcs for chemical reactions.

The path to perform in hours or just one day the Great Work came from old alchemical trateases or dialogs for the breath dry paths ("via sica brevis"), and never was applied to the wet path, if not just by Albertus, the great in "Le composé des composés".




Welcome tho the insight future. See all imagery, classified, all treasure of the ancient world, from all nation, restored like the past of all humankind was yesterday.

Dedicated to all past souls.

What more evidence can anyone possibly want??? Common vinegar does NOT do the things the "vinegar" (among a bunch of other code-words, including other acids, like "aqua fortis") they keep talking about does to metals. As for explicit references that common acids are used as nothing but code-words to hide the secret solvent, take a look at what Antonio de Abbatia says in his first letter, for example, where he several times deals with the subject of common acids vs the secret solvent:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/show...silver-in-the-secret-solvent-vs-aqua-fortises

Do you see any common acids being able to do what he describes there? Nope! As he plainly explains, these are nothing but code-words to hide the real solvent being used.

Vinegar is just a common acid, and a weak one at that. For "chymical" procedures it is fine, as several other acids are, but for alchemical ones it will never perform what the texts say, just like "aqua fortis", "aqua regia", "oil of vitriol", etc., won't perform what the secret solvent does to metals either. Common acids do not do to metals what the secret solvent does to them. It's a fact. The sooner you accept it, the better. But why did many alchemists use common acids like vinegar as analogies to their secret solvent?, you may ask. Since the secret solvent does have a dissolving action on metals, just like common acids also do, they became very common "decknamen" (look up this German word, if you don't know what it means) for it. There is a certain degree of analogy, then, between the action of common acids upon metals and that of the secret solvent, and that's the reason why names like "vinegar" became common code-words for it.
 

Esche

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What more evidence can anyone possibly want??? Common vinegar does NOT do the things the "vinegar" (among a bunch of other code-words, including other acids, like "aqua fortis") they keep talking about does to metals. As for explicit references that common acids are used as nothing but code-words to hide the secret solvent, take a look at what Antonio de Abbatia says in his first letter, for example, where he several times deals with the subject of common acids vs the secret solvent:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/show...silver-in-the-secret-solvent-vs-aqua-fortises

Do you see any common acids being able to do what he describes there? Nope! As he plainly explains, these are nothing but code-words to hide the real solvent being used.

Vinegar is just a common acid, and a weak one at that. For "chymical" procedures it is fine, as several other acids are, but for alchemical ones it will never perform what the texts say, just like "aqua fortis", "aqua regia", "oil of vitriol", etc., won't perform what the secret solvent does to metals either. Common acids do not do to metals what the secret solvent does to them. It's a fact. The sooner you accept it, the better. But why did many alchemists use common acids like vinegar as analogies to their secret solvent?, you may ask. Since the secret solvent does have a dissolving action on metals, just like common acids also do, they became very common "decknamen" (look up this German word, if you don't know what it means) for it. There is a certain degree of analogy, then, between the action of common acids upon metals and that of the secret solvent, and that's the reason why names like "vinegar" became common code-words for it.


Vinegar is mercury, mercury is vinegar. Says some philosophers. Not acids, in the context of Rosarium Phil. and so in the Albertus Le composé des composés. Please transcript any text with the word-code like you do mean from a classical alchemist work, or an appendice data-base for the means you take from these terms, because anyone have access to these sources and encriptions, you are so privillegiated.
 

JDP

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Hermetic Pilgrim
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Aug 31, 2012
Messages
1,990
Vinegar is mercury, mercury is vinegar. Says some philosophers. Not acids, in the context of Rosarium Phil. and so in the Albertus Le composé des composés. Please transcript any text with the word-code like you do mean from a classical alchemist work, or an appendice data-base for the means you take from these terms, because anyone have access to these sources and encriptions, you are so privillegiated.

Which part of "vinegar" and also "mercury" itself in this context are obviously NOT MEANT LITERALLY is it you do not understand??? Why do you think they often say "our vinegar", "our aqua fortis", "our mercury", etc.???? If it was the common ones that everyone knows, then obviously there would be no need to make the "our" distinction. I find it very hard to believe that someone in this day and age is still trying to read the key parts of alchemical texts 100% literally, like you do! You will never, ever, not even if you could live 1000 years continuously trying, get anywhere regarding the subject of making the Stone or any true alchemical "tincture" with things like common vinegar as the solvent. It just won't happen. All you will produce are common acetates that decompose with heat and do JACK-FRIGGIN'-SQUAT to the metals they are "projected" upon.
 

Schmuldvich

Lapidem
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
1,027
Im clearly not the smartest tool in the shed.. but it seems blatantly obvious that the secret solvent requires a developed form of the prima materia... am i right?

So the discussion here seems rather fruitless (imo) because no one seems to be bothering to discuss the progression of first matter into the secret solvent.

Why is it that alchemy (and alchemist) always chose the convenience of ignorance rather than holding to what we know to be true...

No prima materia, no secret solvent.
No secret solvent, no alchemy.​

Salts and acids have nothing to do with what ought to be the topic of this conversation. Shouldnt this conversation be geared towards how the prima materia becomes the secret solvent???

Correct me if im wrong....

Excellent post!

Another way to say "the secret solvent requires a developed form of the prima materia" would be as follows: "the secret solvent is a developed form of the prima materia".
 

Kibric

Occultum
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 24, 2017
Messages
922
Vinegar is mercury, mercury is vinegar
The entire work is coded, in essence you can't learn anything about the actual process without knowing some of the code.
There are multiple names for the same things.
If it was the common ones that everyone knows, then obviously there would be no need to make the "our" distinction
I find it very hard to believe that someone in this day and age is still trying to read the key parts of alchemical texts 100% literally,
JDP point is sound, you can feel the irritation it causes him.

Vinegar is not mercury, but that doesn't mean your alchemical practise is over.
On the contrary, each misunderstanding teaches you, makes you a better alchemist.