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. The real secret of the work is:

rogerc

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You're the one who hasn't read carefully.
"A contemporary, unknowingly got alchemical salt by his hard work by using earth foliage; called peaty soil, residue of plant decay, and he watered his earth with dew - evaporating - watering - mixing continuously for a thousand days: the result was not negative, because it was an alchemical salt that he eventually produced and, by adding gold dust to his composition, he arrived at a liquor of gold salts (as this salt alchemically attacks gold), but the ashes of its plants can be, depending on the location of their harvest, toxic or beneficial - hence uncertainty of results, especially regarding their curative use: potable gold does not manufacture as well."

There is nothing definitive about toxicity. The author is speculating.

And your post doesn't refute anything I said.
You did not try to make a circulatum from the acids -
you said yourself, "the acids had no effect on gold."
You didn't say you combined the acids with their salts and they had no effect...
This shows you were not working with a circulatum.
You said you bought the acids.
Please don't twist everything to be right.
Don't argue things I am not arguing to appear right.
Please take the better path this time.
Anyone knows a circulatum can be made from any acid/sulphur combined with its salt.
You really want to say you've disproved this?

I have provided pictures here of my circulatum work.
You have never provided pictures of any work. You say, "I did this - it doesn't work", "I did this - it doesn't work"
As if people should not work on anything you have worked on because you are the final word, always working
perfectly with no errors...
You've never mentioned anything about working on circulatum, and suddenly you claim to have disproven it.
This is bs.

Who said I was refuting anything.... I am making my point.... you are free to make yours.. The author who is Roger Guasco who you have already stated that you have not read, said the result was not negative because it was an alchemical salt, what did he say about fulvic and humic acid?...what did he say about a circulatum?, absolutely nothing....the key was in the salt, he wrote this paragraph Androgynus provided in his book :"The Dew Burns the salt" in his regimine of salt. Like I said..... read it, put it in context ......how can you argue about it if you haven't read it....Its obvious by Androgynus comment that he has read it, and he recognizes where the virtue in this product comes from.

Your funny...you can stop pretending to be an alchemist now...being a moderator at a so called alchemy forum doesn't make you an authority on anything...least of all alchemy......I got one question did any of your
"circulatums" dissolve gold, did they blacken it...lol.

On the subject of work you yourself stated you never finished anything you started so now you're an authority of "circulatums" Who's the master of bs...I think its your prima matera.

I don't provide pictures of my work cause I look at yours and I realize how stupid it is to show a picture of a colored liquid in a mason jar...it proves absolutely nothing.

At any rate no one is saying anything about a "circulatum" except you, what is being claimed here albiet not by Pierre...all you guys are just assuming he is talking about fulvic and humic acids..... I doubt it.

You are the guy that always twists things to seem right .....first it was fulvic and humic acid and now its a circulatum involving the salts....trophic dynamism again...huh...I think I bout to hurl :eek:. Uh oh...do the banning threats come next? Any time we disagree the personal attacks start flowing.... I think I need a change, the best times for this forum are when the library is closed. This is good I am really P.O.ed now.
 
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solomon levi

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Who said I was refuting anything.... I am making my point.... you are free to make yours.. The author who is Roger Guasco who you have already stated that you have not read, said the result was not negative because it was an alchemical salt, what did he say about fulvic and humic acid?...what did he say about a circulatum?, absolutely nothing....the key was in the salt, he wrote this paragraph Androgynus provided in his book :"The Dew Burns the salt" in his regimine of salt. Like I said..... read it, put it in context ......how can you argue about it if you haven't read it....Its obvious by Androgynus comment that he has read it, and he recognizes where the virtue in this product comes from.

Your funny...you can stop pretending to be an alchemist now...being a moderator at a so called alchemy forum doesn't make you an authority on anything...least of all alchemy......I got one question did any of your
"circulatums" dissolve gold, did they blacken it...lol.

On the subject of work you yourself stated you never finished anything you started so now you're an authority of "circulatums" Who's the master of bs...I think its your prima matera.

I don't provide pictures of my work cause I look at yours and I realize how stupid it is to show a picture of a colored liquid in a mason jar...it proves absolutely nothing.

At any rate no one is saying anything about a "circulatum" except you, what is being claimed here albiet not by Pierre...all you guys are just assuming he is talking about fulvic and humic acids..... I doubt it.

You are the guy that always twists things to seem right .....first it was fulvic and humic acid and now its a circulatum involving the salts....trophic dynamism again...huh...I think I bout to hurl :eek:. Uh oh...do the banning threats come next? Any time we disagree the personal attacks start flowing.... I think I need a change, the best times for this forum are when the library is closed. This is good I am really P.O.ed now.


Maybe we'll talk some other time.
 

Pleroma

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we see the action in the alkahest of soil experiment he gives, I performed the experiment myself over the course of two weeks, it only requires a light sandy soil, it does make a stronger and stronger agent each time a distillation is performed dissolving what it couldn't before, nature works the same way generating acids and corroding agents as its trickles deeper and deeper dissolving those minerals they find as "trace".

roger.
where did you read the experiment from? in GCH? what page.
 

Pleroma

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Hey roger, i remember you posted something about urine, and some nice salt looking crystals appeared...how exactly did you get those?
 

pierre

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Hey roger, i remember you posted something about urine, and some nice salt looking crystals appeared...how exactly did you get those?

Hello pleroma, that picture you use as your avatar is a picture of julien champagne on the path of the gold in solution with mercury. Did you know that?
It is said that the model is Madame Erlanger ...
 

Andro

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your avatar is a picture of julien champagne on the path of the gold in solution with mercury.

FINALLY back to the original topic! (Pierre's suggested Gold & Mercury Path)

I think most latter posts here belong elsewhere, at least conceptually (mostly in the Celestial Agriculture Thread IMO), but they got so intertwined that it will make a bigger mess to move them than to leave them where they are :)

Please, everyone (myself included), let's respect Pierre's original thread intent and stay on topic from now on.

Imagine yourselves standing in the shoes of a novice/newcomer here - We are sometimes unintentionally making orientation SO difficult by spreading out and digressing like that.

It can be difficult and confusing enough as it is...

Maybe we should try to come up with thread titles that sound a bit less 'presumptuous'...

Maybe (for this thread) a title like 'The Path of Metallic Gold & Mercury' would be creating less orientation problems than 'The real secret of the work is'...

Yes, I know, all threads/paths/arts/sciences (eventually and inevitably :)) merge into One - but for now... you know what I mean.

Thank you, and much appreciated.
 
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Pleroma

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Hello pleroma, that picture you use as your avatar is a picture of julien champagne on the path of the gold in solution with mercury. Did you know that?
It is said that the model is Madame Erlanger ...

hi,
no i did not know that. i just found it online.
 

pierre

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FINALLY back to the original topic! (Pierre's suggested Gold & Mercury Path)

I think most latter posts here belong elsewhere, at least conceptually (mostly in the Celestial Agriculture Thread IMO), but they got so intertwined that it will make a bigger mess to move them than to leave them where they are :)

Please, everyone (myself included), let's respect Pierre's original thread intent and stay on topic from now on.

Imagine yourselves standing in the shoes of a novice/newcomer here - We are sometimes unintentionally making orientation SO difficult by spreading out and digressing like that.

It can be difficult and confusing enough as it is...

Yes, I know, all threads/paths/arts/sciences (eventually and inevitably :)) merge into One - but for now... you know what I mean.

Thank you, and much appreciated.

I apologize for the mess of thematic of this post, androgynus ...

One of the great controversies of this pathway, is whether the materials should be prepared in some special way. If the Gold and Mercury should be used raw, volatilized, or native. Canseliet himself, fell into the trap and recognizes that not successful in the experiment. You can read about this in his book. Many teachers throughout time have not agreed on this point, apparently. But a judicious reading of the texts, should be sufficient to clarify this specific point, which is where most fail, when moving to work, without achieving positive results.
Regards.
 

True Initiate

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Would be a problem to quote this portion of text from Canseliet in French?

I am willing to translate it into English for all to read...
 

Hellin Hermetist

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I apologize for the mess of thematic of this post, androgynus ...

One of the great controversies of this pathway, is whether the materials should be prepared in some special way. If the Gold and Mercury should be used raw, volatilized, or native. Canseliet himself, fell into the trap and recognizes that not successful in the experiment. You can read about this in his book. Many teachers throughout time have not agreed on this point, apparently. But a judicious reading of the texts, should be sufficient to clarify this specific point, which is where most fail, when moving to work, without achieving positive results.
Regards.

We dont have to make any special purificaton at mercury with the help of salts or other things but keep it under its raw metallic form. But did you have any success with that path?
 

True Initiate

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I ment can you or somebody else scan or copy and paste this excerpt from Canseliet so that i can translate it into English.
 

pierre

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We dont have to make any special purificaton at mercury with the help of salts or other things but keep it under its raw metallic form. But did you have any success with that path?

I show here one of many opinions, in this case Bacher, on the subject in question:
"It differs, however, virgin mercury from the common, which amalgamated with gold, the virgin mercury, and put on fire, rises all with mercury, which the common can not do".
Arnaldo de Villanova: "The preparation made ​​by sublimation of mercury is the most excellent, and so, after the revivification, is carried out better and more easily, the amalgamation".
Filaleteo: According to the philosophers, we should imitate nature. If therefore the menstruum was dry, the solution would be expected in vain.
As you see, Hellin, there is much to discuss on this topic ..., yet!

And regarding your question, I'm still working on it...
 

True Initiate

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Spanish is fine too!
 

pierre

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Ok.
Your flag has a sun in the middle and broken chains noise? :cool:

I send you the excerpt from Canseliet...
I try to send it by mail, but the text is too long.

Here it goes:

Cuando Filaleteo precisa que hay que preparar primero el mercurio, el estudiante puede comprender que sea en este nuevo
estado, en el que el primero de los tres principios no puede ser encontrado sobre la tierra —non potest reperiri super terram.
Tanto más cuanto que en el informe del filósofo inglés, aprendemos que es así por las singulares razones notadas por los
adeptos —ob singulares rationes notas Adeptis— debemos reproducir el pasaje que se muestra bien como la neta y breve
definición de la vía húmeda y larga, con razón o sin ella, reputada de sofista por un número de artistas:
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Con este mercurio amalgamamos perfectamente el oro puro, purgado hasta el más alto grado de pureza, en limaduras o en
laminillas, y, encerrado en el vidrio, lo cocemos continuamente. El oro se disuelve por la virtud de nuestra agua, y vuelve de
nuevo a su más próxima materia, en la cual la vida aprisionada del oro deviene libre, y él recibe la vida del Mercurio
disolvente que es, con respecto al oro, lo que es una buena tierra con respecto al grano de trigo.
In Mercurio hoc aurum purum, purgatum ad summum puritatis gradum, limitum, aut lamellatum amalgamamos optimè, & in
vitro inclusum assiduè coquimus: Aurum virtute aquae nostrae dissolvitur; reditque ad proximam suam materiam, in quâ vita
auri inclusa fit libera, & suscipit vital dissolventis Mercurii, qui est respectu auri idem, quod terra bona, respectu grani
tritici[53].
Después de esta afirmación, cuán inclinado se encontrará el discípulo de Ciencia a comprender que Filaleteo mismo haya
entendido el mercurio fluido que se vendía libremente, en los boticarios de su propia época. Si el ciudadano del mundo —
cosmopolita— según su propio vocablo, no suministra, sin embargo, ni el conjunto, ni el detalle de su dispositivo, al menos es
fácil imaginarlo y sucintamente resumirlo.
El mercurio de esa suerte sembrado, es decir, por amalgamación, es introducido en un matraz de panza ovoide o esférica, de
vidrio de buen espesor, y cerrado inmediatamente a continuación con un luten sólido, si es que no con el soplete. A
continuación la cocción de la amalgama es regulada y mantenida sin desfallecer, durante numerosos meses y siempre por
debajo de la temperatura de ebullición.
Lo que precede y que el estudiante acaba de leer, es rigurosamente lo que hicimos, hace cuarenta años, movidos como
estábamos ya por las virtudes necesarias, a saber: la fe, la consciencia, la paciencia y la perseverancia. En lo físico, como en
lo moral, fue considerable el esfuerzo, el cual nos puso en presencia del más extraordinario panorama de sucesivas y
maravillosas formas coloreadas.
La fotografía policroma, no hace falta decirlo, no era todavía practicada, lo que habría suprimido todo el esfuerzo que nos
tomamos para fijar, en la acuarela, estas numerosas fases, sobre el papel de acuarela. Ellas se instalaban ante nuestros
ojos, algunas veces singularmente multicolores, por una duración variable pero siempre bastante larga.
Habíamos procedido primero a la mundificación del mercurio, por el método ordinario de la destilación, en estas cornudas o
retortas de gres, hoy en día completamente inencontrables.
En cuanto al oro, a fin de que estuviésemos seguros de su total pureza, lo habíamos sometido a la prueba del plomo y de la
copela, y habíamos a continuación confeccionado con él un tricloruro, disolviéndolo, por pequeños fragmentos, en el agua
regia. Habíamos evaporado dulcemente al baño de arena, y después, al baño María, habíamos desembarazado a nuestros
cristales del hidrato superfluo.
El metal precipitado en su solución, es decir, reducido de su cloruro, se ofrece en polvo fino que, bien lavado, es sumamente
propicio a la amalgamación.
Por lo demás, si algún día se presentase la posibilidad, de que retomásemos la experiencia, pese a todo apasionante,
utilizaríamos la solución roja de oro coloidal, de la que todo buen químico sabe cuánto puede hacer variar el color el incidente
más ínfimo e imprevisible.
¿No sería ahí, en el fondo, que pueda encontrarse el origen secreto de esta cal, de carácter dinámico, que ciertos artistas
preparaban por calcinación del oro, con vistas a la solución más íntima del metal solar, en el mercurio o azogue?
¿Conviene acaso pensar que este kaleidoscopio en colores de la vía del matraz de vidrio, haya sido debido a la intensa vida
de un oro reincrudado?
Sea lo que haya sido exactamente, estas imágenes de linterna mágica, en su desarrollo a la vez lento y coloreado,
permanecen muy misteriosas y, digámoslo, apasionantes.
En verdad, no es preciso reconocer, que esta larga sucesión de planos sombríos o brillantes, si había parecido responder a
la transformación de la amalgama en el interior, no había entrañado en modo alguno su mejora, de forma sorprendente e
inmediatamente visible o controlable. Por lo demás, estábamos muy lejos del estado sublime al que era nuestro designio que
fuese elevado el compost.
Nuestra serie de imágenes pintadas con amor, por desgracia, se perdió en el curso de la debacle de 1940, con numerosos
otros documentos.
Ciertas, no obstante, reviven en nuestra copia del Preciosísimo Don de Dios, que fue salvada por milagro. Y son bien estas
figuras las que nos conducen a creer que Jorge Aurach mantuvo, antes que nosotros, la interminable cocción de la que
hemos hablado en Alquimia. Transportó de ella, él también, o hizo transportar de ella, sobre el papel, los diferentes cuadros
del espectáculo en colores ofrecidos por la amalgama y admirado por el alquimista, a través del vidrio del recipiente.
Evidentemente, la sucesión de estas doce imágenes es mucho menos numerosa que la nuestra que reunía de ella cuarenta
y ocho en total. Los paisajes apropiados con los que rodeamos los gigantescos matraces de Jorge Aurach, en la copia, por
nosotros caligrafiada, dibujada y pintada, no recreaban las figuras del antiguo manuscrito que nos sirvió de modelo.
Somos nosotros quienes compusimos los decorados, en armonía de lugar, de suelo, de estación, incluso de latitud, con las
fases simbólicamente traducidas, en sus matraces transparentes, por el alquimista de Estrasburgo.
El epíteto que hemos subrayado y del que nuestro Maestro, no sin algunos rodeos ligeramente «especiosos», suministra la
explicación, dispersada aquí y allá en sus dos obras; este epíteto significa «vuelto a colocar en el estado muy próximo al
origen». Filaleteo lo dice, lo hemos visto, y lo vuelve a decir un poco más adelante:
Pero aquél que no ha preparado convenientemente su Mercurio, aunque hubiese unido el oro con aquél, su oro sigue siendo
hasta entonces el oro del vulgo, dado que es unido a un tal agente insípido, en el que permanece incambiado, como si
permaneciese en un cofre.
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Qui verò Mercurium suum non retè pararit, etsi cum eo aurum junxerit, ejus aurum adhuc est aurum vulgi, utpote quod cum
tali agente fatuo jungitur, in quo aeque impermutatum manet, hac si in arcâ maneret[54].
Además, precisa pues e inmediatamente a continuación:
Ciertamente nuestro Mercurio es un alma viviente y vivificante, y por ello nuestro Oro es espermático, igual que el trigo
sembrado es una simiente, mientras que este mismo trigo, en un granero de cosecha, permanecería candeal y muerto.
Noster verò Mercurius est anima vivens et vivificans, ideoque aurum nostrum est spermaticum, sicut triticum satum est
sementum, cum idem triticum in horreo annona, sive frumentum maneat, mortuumque.
Que nuestro Mercurio sea un alma y que nuestro Oro sea espermático, además del posesivo, he ahí bien que revela, sin
embargo, otro sentido que la muy innegable calidad del Adepto, adquirida por el autor, nos obligaba a señalar.
En la ocurrencia el Cosmopolita, para quien la diferencia es grande, entre el oro y la plata comunes y aquellos de los que
afirma que son vivos, nos dispensa de toda explicación:
Mas advierte esto, que no tomes el oro y la plata del vulgo, pues éstos están muertos; toman los nuestros que están vivos.
Sed hoc abmonitus sis, ne accipias aurum & argentum vulgo, nam haec sunt mortua, accipe nostra quae sunt viva[55].
Pese a su aplicación más o menos constante en cambiar al discípulo a la vía larga, Filaleteo no escapó a la necesidad de
hacer aparecer la diferencia entre los dos oros:
Pero nuestro Oro no puede ser comprado al precio de la moneda, aunque para él, quisieses dar una corona o un reino. Es,
en efecto, un don de Dios. Pues nuestro Oro no es para llegar perfecto entre nuestras manos (al menos comúnmente) pues
para que sea el nuestro, tiene necesidad de nuestro arte.
Aurum verò nostrum pecuniae pretio emi nequit, quamvis pro eo coronam vel regnum dare velles; est enim donum Dei.
Aurum enim nostrum ad manus nostras perfectum (saltem vulgò) non est habendum, quia ut nostrum sit, nostrâ opus est arte.
Limojon de Saint-Didier es formal y francamente categórico en esta sola frase:
«Pero el sabio puede hacerla mucho más fácilmente con el oro de los Filósofos que con el oro vulgar»[56]
A buen seguro, hacer la Medicina Universal, es decir la Piedra Filosofal, con la ayuda del oro de los Filósofos, que es este
primer oro, calificado de astral, por el autor del Triunfo, y «cuyo centro está en el sol». Es él, este rayo que penetra en el vaso
de Etteilla, como lo vemos sobre el frontispicio del pequeño tratado de Los Siete Matices de la Obra, sobre este lindo
grabado del que hemos dado la reproducción, en nuestro volumen de Alquimia.
 

True Initiate

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Ok, the readable version is finished.

When Philalethes states that we must first prepare the mercury, the student can understand that it in this new
state, in which the first of the three principles can not be found on earth-non potest reperiri super terram.

The more so from the report of the English philosopher, we learn that is by the unique reasons noted by the
adept-ob-singular rationes Adeptis notes we play the passage which is displayed either as the net and brief
definition of the wet and long, rightly or wrongly, reputed sophist by a number of artists:
58
With this mercury amalgamate perfectly pure gold, purged to the highest degree of purity, takr filings or
lamellae, and enclosed it in glass, boil continuously. The gold will be dissolved by virtue of our water, and returns
back to your nearest area in which the imprisoned life of gold becomes free, and he receives the life of the Mercury
solvent that is, with respect to gold, which is a good ground with respect to the grain of wheat.
Mercury In aurum purum hoc, ad summum purgatum puritatis gradum, libitum, aut lamellatum amalgamamos optime, & in
inclusum vitro assidue coquimus: Aurum virtute nostrae dissolvitur aquae; reditque ad proximam suam materiam, in quâ vita
inclusa atrial free fit, & suscipit vital dissolventis Mercurii, qui est atrial respectu idem quod bona terra, respectu grani
tritici [53].

After this statement, how inclined will find the disciple of science to understand that Philalethes himself has
understood the fluid mercury freely sold in the apothecaries of his own time. If the citizen of the world -
cosmopolitan as its own word, does not provide, however, neither the whole nor the details of your device, at least it
easy to imagine and briefly summarize it.
Mercury from the sort sown, ie by amalgamation, is introduced into a flask belly ovoid or spherical,
glass of good thickness, and then immediately closed with a solid luten, if not with the torch. A
then firing the amalgam is regulated and maintained without fail, over many months and always
below the boiling temperature.

The above and the student just read, is strictly what we did forty years ago, moved as
and the virtues were necessary, namely, faith, awareness, patience and perseverance. Physically, as in
moral, was considerable effort, which put us in the presence of the most extraordinary panorama of successive
wonderful colored forms.

The photograph polychrome, needless to say, was not yet practiced, which would have removed all the effort that we
take to fix, in watercolor, these numerous phases, on watercolor paper. They were installed at our
eyes, sometimes singularly colored by a variable length but still quite long.
We proceeded first to the mundificación of mercury, by the ordinary method of distillation, these horned or
stoneware retorts, completely impossible to find today.

As for gold, so that were sure of its total purity, we tested for lead and
cup, and then we made him a trichloride, dissolving, by small fragments, Aqua
regia. We gently evaporated in a sand bath, and then water bath, we rid our
hydrate crystals superfluous.
The metal precipitated in solution, ie, reduced from its chloride, is available in fine powder, washed, is extremely
conducive for amalgamation.

Otherwise, if ever submit the possibility that we would use the red solution of colloidal gold, which every good chemist knows how color can vary the incident
more paltry and unpredictable.
Would not it be there in the background, you can find the secret origin of the lime, dynamic, certain artists
prepared by calcination of gold, with a view to the most intimate of solar metal in mercury or quicksilver?

Should maybe think that this kaleidoscope of color through the glass flask, was due to the intense
reincrudado a gold?
Whatever it was exactly these images of magic lantern, where development both slow and colored
remain very mysterious and, shall we say, exciting.
Indeed, it is necessary to recognize that this long succession of flat dark or bright, if it had seemed to respond to
transforming the amalgam on the inside, had not resulted in any way improvement, surprisingly and
immediately visible or controllable. Moreover, we were very far from the sublime state that was our plan that
compost was high.
Our series of pictures painted with love, unfortunately, was lost during the debacle of 1940, with numerous
other documents.
Some, however, revived in our copy of the Precious Gift of God, which was saved by a miracle. And these are well
figures that lead us to believe that George Aurach kept before us, the endless cooking which
we discussed in Alchemy. He carried her, he too, or had carried it, on paper, the various tables
spectacle of color offered by the amalgamation and admired by the alchemist, through the glass container.
Obviously, the sequence of these twelve images is much less numerous than ours that it met forty
and eight in total. Appropriate landscapes with which we surround the giant Jorge Aurach flasks in the copy,
we calligraphy, drawn and painted, not recreating the figures of ancient manuscript that served as model.
We who wrote it sets, in harmony of place, soil, season, including latitude, with the
translated symbolically stages in their flasks transparent, the alchemist of Strasbourg.
The epithet we have outlined and our Master, not without some detours slightly "specious", provides the
explanation, scattered here and there in his two works, this epithet means "put back in the state very close to
origin. " Philalethes says, we have seen, and again a little later to say:
But he has not properly prepared your Mercury, but had joined the gold with him, his gold remains
until then the gold of the masses, since it is joined to an agent such tasteless, which remains unchanged, as if
remain in a chest.
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Qui non vero Mercurium suum challenged pararit, cum eo etsi junxerit aurum, aurum ejus adhuc vulgi aurum est, quod cum utpote
tali jungitur fatuous agent, in quo aeque impermutatum manet, if in ark maneret hac [54].

Furthermore, accurate and immediately as follows:
Certainly our Mercury is a living soul and life-giving, and therefore our Gold is sperm, like wheat
planted a seed, while the same wheat crop in a barn, would remain, wheat and dead.
Mercurius vero Noster vivens et est encourages vivificans, aurum nostrum ideoque spermaticum est, est Satum sicut Triticum
sementum, cum in idem Triticum horreo annona, sive frumentum maneat, mortuumque.
Mercury is our soul and our sperm Gold is also the possessive, behold rather than reveals,
But another undeniable sense that the very quality of the Adept, acquired by the author, we were forced to point out.
In the cosmopolitan occurrence, for whom the difference is large, between gold and silver common and those who
states that are alive, we dispensed of any explanation:
But observe this, you do not take the gold and silver of the vulgar, for they are dead, take our people who are alive.
Be abmonitus hoc system, ne accipias aurum & argentum vulgar, HAEC sunt mortua nam, Accipe nostra sunt quae alive [55].
Despite its more or less constant application to change the disciple to the long route, Philalethes not escape the need for
bring up the difference between the two golds:
But our Gold can not be purchased at the price of money, but for him, you would want to give a crown or kingdom. Is,
in fact, a gift from God. For our Gold is not to get perfect in our hands (at least usually) because
to be ours, needs of our art.
Aurum Nostrum vero pecuniae pretio nequit emission, pro eo quamvis coronam regnum dare velles level, Donum Dei est enim.
Aurum Manus enim ad nostrum nostras perfectum (saltem vulgar) habendum non est, quia sit ut nostrum, nostra est opus art.
Saint-Didier Limojon is formal and categorical frankly in this single sentence:
"But the wise can make it much more easily with the gold of the Philosophers that vulgar gold '[56]
Surely, to the Universal Medicine, that is the Philosopher's Stone, with the help of gold of the Philosophers, which is this
first gold, astral described by the author of Triumph, and "whose center is the sun." It is he, this beam that penetrates the glass
Etteilla, as seen on the frontispiece of the little treatise of the Seven Shades of the work on this cute
that we have recorded the play, in our volume of Alchemy.
 

Hellin Hermetist

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Arnaldo de Villanova: "The preparation made ​​by sublimation of mercury is the most excellent, and so, after the revivification, is carried out better and more easily, the amalgamation".

Here is what Bernard of Tresne has to say about that matter. From his epistle at Thomas of Bononia:

"Wherefore, excellent Doctor, false and vain is all their doctrine, which altereth Mercury, which is the Seed, before the Metallick species be joyned with it: For if it be dryed up, it dissolves not. What then can it do in the solution of things of its own species? For if it be heated beyond its natural digestion, it will not cause nor
generate in the Metalline species a Feverish heat as it were, and will impertinently turn cold into hot, and passive into active; and the errour from thence will be incorrigible, and labour lost."

"Besides, my Honoured Doctor, that I may lightly touch on the remaining Heads of your Epistle, you must
diligently and wisely observe, that Fire and Azor, wash Laton: But Azor is not raw Quick-silver simply extracted out of the Mine, but it is that which is extracted by Quick-silver it self, out of the dissolved Bodies; which is found to be more ripe upon tryal."

"For so soon as Mercury is throughly changed from his first Nature, so soon he is forbidden entrance into our Philosophick Work, because he hath lost his Spermatick and Metallick Nature."

"Wherefore in reading Philosophick Books, consider especially the possibility of Nature; notwithstanding some writers of this Art have also sometimes erred, and have happened sometimes to have handled it, as to the natural truth either ill or ambiguously. As it may be observed that Arnoldus de Villa Nova hath said, in a
Book which he called his Rosary, that raw Mercury, that is, Quick-silver, which in its own nature is cold and moist, by Sublimation may be made hot and dry; afterwards being revived, it becomes hot and moist like the complexion of Man. You will say then, what wonder it is if it be joyned with the Sun, that it likewise becomes of the nature of the Sun? For Mercury is of a convertible nature, as the Heavenly Mercury, which is such as the Planet is with which it is in Conjunction. For that Arnoldus, though in other Sciences he were a Reverend and Ingenious Doctor, yet in this Art he handled Experiments only, without the learning of the Causes. Now when he saith, that in the first Sublimation the crude Spirit is sublimed from the inferiour salt Minerals, and that Mercury it self, which in its own nature is cold and moist, becomes a Powder of an hot and dry nature, as he saith, this yet conduces nothing to our Work. But let it be so, that he makes of Mercury such a Powder as he speaks of, that is, thoroughly dried and hot by sublimation from Salts; yet these Purifications are vain and impertinent to our Work, yea as to the perfecting of our Work they are hurtful. For though these inferiour Minerals communicate with Metals in their nature, yet not in kind and proportion: For the superiour and inferiour Minerals, in their nativity and subterraneous formation, are
of one and the same constitution universally, and therefore of the same nature; but they differ in proportion, quality, and kind or form. Wherefore if Mercury be distilled with those inferiour Minerals, and throughly dried, then his internal nature is confounded and disproportioned, and is hindred and made unprofitalbe, as to the effect of a Feminine Seed, and invalid for our Metallick Work. For so soon as he is turned into the form of a Powder, (except from his Body of Sol or Luna) so soon he undergoes a thorough driness, unprofitable to the Philosophick Work. Yet I deny not, but that a drosse and impure Mercury may and ought, by a simple Salt, be sublimed or purged once or oftner, according to a due Philosophick experience, to take from it its dross and outward Mineral impurity, so that notwithstanding the fluidity and radical humidity of Mercury may always remain unaltered: For the Mercurial kind and form in such a Work, ought to remain uncorrupted, as hath been said already. Nor ought its outward from to be reduced into a thoroughly dried Powder; because its external form being corrupted, shews its internal nature to be confounded, unless it be in the way of generation that it be altered, as may be manifestly seen in the signs which appear in
the Work of the natural way. For there are Sublimations of Mercury from its own proper Bodies, which are conjoyned and mingled with it, by an Amalgamation which it in its most inward parts, from which being oftentimes raised and reunited, it rejects and loses its superfluities, and is not confounded in its nature; and afterwards it is very agreeable to the Philosophick Work, and powerful to dissolve Metallick species; yet it
is not greatly altered intrinsically for the Philosophick Work, unless it be altered by fixed Bodies dissolved in it. But wonderful things may be done in Medicines for Sensitives from this dried Powder, whether it be reduced into an Oyl, or into Water, or it abide in a Powder; but it is not at all pertinent to the Philosophick Experiment. And therefore it must be universally noted, that so soon as Mercury is turned into a Powder, of whatever sort, contrary to the nature of its Body to be dissolved, so soon will it be unprofitable to the Philosophick Work."

After that we can discuss the opinion of Philalethes about the subject and even the works of Isaac Newton in that path.
 

rogerc

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So.....at any rate...leaving the way of peats...and returning to the intended subject matter that Pierre seems to be refering to here (the treatment of vulgar mercury with a salt/saline mercurial solvent extracted from a black matter) we find others like the author of this book: LESSONS IN THE UNFOLDMENT OF THE PHILOSOPHER'S STONE who gives quotes and ideas like this:
"The Fire of the sages may be extracted from all natural things, and is called the Quintessence. It is of earth, water, air, and fire." This is rather vague. Nundinus says: "The Fire which includes all our chemical processes is three-fold: the fiery element of the air, of water, and of the earth. This is ALL our magistery requires." Here we get a much closer view of the matter. We see that if we have the Philosophers' Fire, we really have ALL that is necessary. Let us search on. Bondinus, another sage, says: "Our Stone is Fire, and has been generated in Fire, without, however, being consumed by Fire." This gets more and more interesting. What is it that could be made by Fire, and yet not be destroyed by Fire? This is the fabled "Salamander," which is said to "live in the fire, which imparts to it a glorious hue."

The author of the "Glory of the World" says: "Take Fire, or the quicklime of the Sages, which is the vital fire of all trees, and therein doth God himself burn by divine love." This statement seems to be the plainest of all. The Fire is declared to be the "vital fire of all trees," thus indicating its origin, and it then only remains for us to learn the principle and method of its extraction.
In this fire, they say, purify Mercury, and mortify it for the purposes of our Art. The Mercury which lies "hidden in this water," or Fire, is therein FIXED OF ITSELF. Now we are getting towards the Light! We are plainly told that the Fire IS a kind of Water (remember, alchemists "burn with Water"), and in this very Fire-Water, Mercury itself becomes decomposed, clarified, coagulated and fixed with indelible, living DIVINE FIRE, of that kind which God has placed in the Sun itself.

"Fire placed in the Stone," says d'Espagnet, "is Nature's Prince, Sol's sons and Vicar, moving and digesting matter and perfecting all things therein. Nature useth fire, so also doth Art after its example, as an Instrument and Mallet in cutting out its works. Fire is Master and Perfector, wherefore the knowledge of Fire is most necessary for a Philosopher

By this apparently frank statement, Valentine has probably been the means of throwing thousands off the right scent. He goes on to say: "The fire of a spirit lamp is useless for our purpose, nor is there any profit in 'horse-dung,' nor in the other kinds of heat in the providing of which so much expense is incurred. Neither do we want many kinds of furnaces. Only our three-fold furnace affords facilities for properly regulating the heat of the fire. Our furnace is cheap, our fire is cheap, and our material is cheap. He who has the material will ALSO find a furnace in which to prepare it, just as he who has flour will not be at a loss for an oven in which it may be baked." The simile here is not quite accurate, for the oven is NOT the flour, while the material DOES constitute the furnace of the Philosophers. This is the very thing Valentine is trying to convey to you, at the same time that he is deceiving the millions who are not quick-witted enough to pick him up. In the statement he has actually named the subject of the art, but has done it so adroitly that hardly any one will be able to discover it.
Ethelius says: "When the moist and the dry have been separated, the dry lies at the bottom and is called 'our Stone.' It is as black as a raven. It must be subjected to the COCTION OF OUR WATER." This shows plainly enough that the heat of Fire is in the WATER ITSELF, does it not. He says: "It must be separated from it until it loses its blackness and becomes white as dazzling marble. Then is THIS the Mystic Stone, which by coction has been transmuted into fixed Mercury, and this with the blessing of God


All through the Bible allusions are made to this rejected "Stone." Moses in his Song alludes to it. Job speaks of it. Also David, Solomon, Isaiah and Zechariah. It is also mentioned by the apostles in the New Testament, who in some vague, mysterious way, connect the Stone with Christ and his appearing.
Even the Mohammedans preserve a record of the tradition in Heliogablus (the Sun-Moon), a Black Stone which hangs suspended in the mosque at Mecca. The tradition is that this Stone fell from heaven in the desert of Arabia, and was found by Mohammed, who brought it to Mecca, where it has since remained, an object of awe and reverence.
We ourselves spent many years, wandering in many places, to find out the meaning of this strange legend, feeling that it must be a key to deeper mysteries, and at last we unearthed it in conversation with the spirit of a very old and learned Arab, who informed us that the Black Stone was originally formed of the interior essence of the leaves of the palm, with other leaves and grasses, which is why it was called by the singular name, "Heliogabalus," or "Sun-Moon stone," these things growing and thriving under influence of the heavenly luminaries.
How it became reduced to the form of a Black Stone was a very great mystery, which could be solved only by the two sole inhabitants of the desert, the camel and its rider. First the camel ate the vegetation, which in its series of stomachs passed through a peculiar chemical transformation or reduction, into the form of a stone. The virtue of this stone was revealed to Mohammed in a dream, wherein the Angel of the Lord descended, and, taking a piece of this Stone, burned it upon live coals until it became outwardly black, but interiorly resplendently white. Whereupon Mohammed rejoiced exceedingly, realizing that he held within his possession the Pearl of Greatest Price. Afterwards this discovery became the chief source of wealth to the Mohammedans, so that really it is little wonder that they still revere Heliogabalus, and look to it as a source of miraculous endowment, refusing to disturb the gold of the mines, which is believed to belong to Mohammed, and will be claimed by him on his return to earth.
The significance of this Stone is as utterly lost to the modern Muslim as to the modern Christian, both of whom have buried the true doctrine of the Stone in the rubbish of religious personalizations, itself a form of the grossest idolatry, although the devotees of either sect pride themselves upon being the only "true worshippers."


...whose views we don't share entirely but we can see the reasons however misguided in a similar line of thought, that the author seems to think our black and vile stinking, despised matter is camel dung or dung in general as is evidenced by these last two quotes from his book, of course like other puffers he thinks Valentine gives away the matter and then tries to throw us off by saying its not horse dung, which the author obviously believes it is...for my part when Valentine speaks thus:
"The fire of a spirit lamp is useless for our purpose, nor is there any profit in 'horse-dung,' nor in the other kinds of heat in the providing of which so much expense is incurred. Neither do we want many kinds of furnaces. Only our three-fold furnace affords facilities for properly regulating the heat of the fire. Our furnace is cheap, our fire is cheap, and our material is cheap. He who has the material will ALSO find a furnace in which to prepare it, just as he who has flour will not be at a loss for an oven in which it may be baked."
I know that he is speaking of limestone and the quicklime of the sages,which is the proper way to think in terms of this quote the author also provides:
"Glory of the World" says: "Take Fire, or the quicklime of the Sages, which is the vital fire of all trees, and therein doth God himself burn by divine love."
in which quote the author cleverly reveals the two roots, the white sulfur which is indeed extracted from burnt oak or palm leaves(myriams dry arid herb) united with the humid lime like Myriam says is the root of the art:
"And know Aros that the two aformentioned fumes are the roots of this art, and they are the white sulfur and the humid lime"

From the Twelve Keys:
Now I will also give my Opinion respecting the Salt of the Sages
The effect of "salt" is to fix or volatilize, according as it is prepared and used. For the spirit of the salt of
tartar, if extracted by itself without any addition, has power to render all metals volatile by dissolution and
putrefaction, and to dissolve quick or liquid silver into the true mercury, as my practical directions shew.
Salt of tartar by itself is a powerful fixative, particularly if the heat of quicklime be incorporated with it. For
these two substances are singularly efficacious in producing fixation

In the same way, the vegetable salt of wine fixes and volatilizes according to the manner of its preparation. Its
use is one of the arcana of Nature, and a miracle of the philosopher's art. When a man drinks wine, there may
be gained from his urine a clear salt, which is volatile, and renders other fixed substances volatile, causing
them to rise with it in the alembic. But the same does not fix. If a man drank nothing but wine, yet for all that
the salt obtained from his urine would have a different property from that gained out of the lees of wine. For
it has undergone a chemical change in the human body, having become transmuted from a vegetable into an
animal salt −− just as horses that feed on oats, straw, etc., change those vegetable substances into flesh and
fat, while the bee prepares honey out of the precious juices of flowers and herbs.
The great change which takes place in these and other substances is due to putrefaction, which separates and
transmutes the constituent elements.
The common spirit of salt, which is extracted according to the direction given in my last declaration, if there
be added to it a small quantity of the "spirit of the dragon," dissolves, volatilizes, and raises together with
itself in the alembic, gold and silver; just as the "eagle," together with the spirit of the dragon (which is found
in stony places), before the spirit is separated from its body, is much more powerful in producing fixation
than volatility.
This I also say, that if the spirit of common salt be joined to the spirit of wine, and distilled together with it, it
becomes sweet, and loses its acidity. This prepared spirit does not dissolve gold bodily, but if it be poured on
prepared calx of gold, it extracts the essence of its colour and redness. If this be rightly done, it reduces the
white and pure moon to the colour of that body from which it was itself extracted. The old body may also
receive back its former colour through the love of alluring Venus, from whose blood it, in the first instance,
derived its origin.
But observe, likewise, that the spirit of salt also destroys the moon, and reduces it to a spiritual essence,
according to my teaching, out of which the " potable moon " may be prepared. This spirit of the moon
belongs to the spirit of the sun, as the female answers to the male, by the copulation or conjunction of the
spirit of mercury or its oil.
The spirit lies hid in mercury, the colour you must seek in sulphur, and their coagulation in salt; then you
have three things which together are capable of once more generating a perfect thing. The spirit is fermented
in the gold with its own proper oil; the sulphur is found in abundance in the property of precious Venus. This
kindles the fixed blood which is sprung from it, the spirit of the salt of the Sages imparts strength and
firmness, though the spirit of tartar and the spirit of urine together with true vinegar, have great virtue. For the
spirit of vinegar is cold, and the spirit of lime is intensely hot, and thus the two spirits are found to be of
opposite natures. I do not here speak according to the customary manner of the Sages. But I must not say too
openly how the inner gates are to be unlocked.~Twelve Keys

Now I will tell you how you must produce the Fire and Water, in which is prepared the Mercury required for the red and white Tincture,
Take fire, or the quicklime of the Sages, which is the vital fire of all trees, and therein doth God Himself burn by divine love. In it purify Mercury, and mortify it for the purposes of our Art; understand, with vulgar Mercury, which you wish to fix in water or fire. But the Mercury which lies hidden in this water, or fire, is therein fixed of itself. The Mercury which is in the fire must be decomposed, clarified, coagulated, and fixed with indelible, living, or Divine fire, of that kind which God has placed in the Sun; and wherein God Himself burns as with Divine love for the consolation of all mankind. Without this fire our Art can not be brought to a successful issue. This is the fire of the Sages which they describe in such obscure terms, as to have been the indirect cause of beguiling many innocent persons to
p. 199
their ruin; so even that they have perished in poverty because they knew not this fire of the Philosophers. It is the most precious fire that God has created in the earth, and has a thousand virtues—nay, it is so precious that men have averred that the Divine Power itself works effectually in it. It has the purifying virtue of Purgatory, and everything is rendered better by it. It is not wonderful, therefore, that a fire should be able to fix and clarify Mercury, and to cleanse it from all grossness and impurity. The Sages call it
170
the living fire, because God has endowed it with His own Divine, and vitalising power.
In the writings of the Sages, this fire goes by different names. Some call it "burnt" wine, others assign to it three names from the analogy of the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost; Body, Soul, and Fire, or Spirit.
The Sages further say: The fire is fire, and also water, containing within itself both cold and heat, moisture, and dryness, nor can anything extinguish it but itself. Hence others say that it is an inextinguishable fire, which is continually burning, purifying, and tinging all metals, consuming all their impurities, and combining Mercury with the Sun in so close an union that they become one and inseparable.~The Glory of The World

So there we have it salt of tartar extracted from either burnt of naturally putrefied hollow oaks/ hollow palm trunks(charcoal) mixed with calx vive/living chalk...of course there are other salts to consider than earthly salts on the Hand of The Philosophers.... like salts of heaven and salts that mediate between the two.
 
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pierre

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So there we have it salt of tartar extracted from either burnt of naturally putrefied hollow oaks/ hollow palm trunks(charcoal) mixed with calx vive/living chalk...
Hi, Rogerc,
I do not reveal anything saying that this is the secret fire of Roger Caro's path... ¿right?
 

Hellin Hermetist

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Pierre can I ask you sth? Have you found that path described in a book or it was your idea? Why do you believe that mercury must have a mineral (HgS) and not a metallic form? I think that mercury in its metallic state sounds more logical to have the role of the dissolvent. For example some Philosophers have said:

As every metal when it melts takes the form of mercury, mercury has to be the first matter of them all.
By metals, form metals, out of metals, we compose the stone.
Aristotle in his meteorology, which was highly appreciated by some medieval alchemists, says that mercury is the first matter of all metals. And he is referring to common quicksilver. Not an unknown philosophical substance.
Also you can take a look in the whole epistle of Bernard of Tresne to Thomas of Bononia.
 

pierre

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Pierre can I ask you sth? Have you found that path described in a book or it was your idea? Why do you believe that mercury must have a mineral (HgS) and not a metallic form? I think that mercury in its metallic state sounds more logical to have the role of the dissolvent. For example some Philosophers have said:

As every metal when it melts takes the form of mercury, mercury has to be the first matter of them all.
By metals, form metals, out of metals, we compose the stone.
Aristotle in his meteorology, which was highly appreciated by some medieval alchemists, says that mercury is the first matter of all metals. And he is referring to common quicksilver. Not an unknown philosophical substance.
Also you can take a look in the whole epistle of Bernard of Tresne to Thomas of Bononia.

Yes, Hellin,
On the issue of what kind of mercury we use, there are many qualified opinions as authors writing on the subject.
Some discredit the mercury sublimate. Others decry liquid metal mercury, and others to HgS.
We must, then, at this particular point, use good sense, to unravel the mystery.
If you would like to achieve the dissolution of solid matter, what kind of solvent would you use? Would you use a liquid or a solid solvent?
Look what it says Richard, the English:
"The mercury dissolves the gold to water their own way, that is, liquid mercury."
All is said, is not it?
Remember the picture of Julien Champagne in which a naked woman (gold) is tucked into a flask, dissolving in a liquid (mercury)

Julien_Champagne_Femme_au_matras.jpg


PS: I remember in my first post, I mentioned that the HgS, should be treated in some special way ...
 

pierre

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Only one more thing.

What matters surrounding this globe?
Eugène Canseliet, comments on the painting of Champagne and the content of the ball:
"This appearance, wonderful and born of all colors, does not correspond in any way, the simple and strong glass ball which mercury and gold in a wise amalgam, are largely subjected to wet digestion; that of the authors preferably speaking, then by analogy with the dry and arid path."
 

Hellin Hermetist

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What globe do you mean? This glass? Is that a sea of mercury or sth like that?
 
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