. The Philosopher's Matter

Andro

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You went from this:

I know, for an absolute fact, that no one on here has ever transmuted one element to another whether it be a metal or otherwise.

To this:

You asked me to prove no one on here has performed transmutation, the fact that no one has showed evidence of such a undertaking is enough to suspect that they actually haven't.
So which one is it? Absolute fact? Or just a mere suspicion?

If you are speaking about yourself and that was a masked suggestion that you have done it yourself but don't wish to say, only your own vanity can answer whether that is true or not. I don't know your vanity but suspect through your avatar that you wish to be the dark secretive figure of andro the mysterious. Hahaha.
Here you go "suspecting" again, and shifting the narrative towards me, and thus taking it to a personal level. I didn't fall off the incarnational truck yesterday :)

No, I'm not speaking about myself. And my avatar is just an avatar. Everyone who searches a little bit can find my mug.
 

Andro

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Mod Post:

The exchanges of a personal nature and assumptions/speculations about what other other people have or haven't achieved are going to end here and now.

Chemistry and especially Ozone/Single Oxygen related topics can be made on their dedicated threads, such as HERE and HERE.

Thanks.
 

Appleheads

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Hola Seraphim, Gracias Señor! I love Mazzy Star. :love: thanks to rick and morty.

Heres another great rick and morty.


I was told for a decade to watch Rick and Morty, I was like hell no. Then I met some good people, and holy shit, we here on this forum are Citadel of Ricks!!!

I've read differently, I've been on here 15 years and some have.

I don't venture into transmutation myself, its a dangerous thing to do and you wouldn't be here long if certain parties found out.
You asked me to prove no one on here has performed transmutation, the fact that no one has showed evidence of such a undertaking is enough to suspect that they actually haven't.

If you are speaking about yourself and that was a masked suggestion that you have done it yourself but don't wish to say, only your own vanity can answer whether that is true or not. I don't know your vanity but suspect through your avatar that you wish to be the dark secretive figure of Andro the mysterious. Hahaha.

There's a lot of that in alchemy, its like Harry Potter and the chamber of secrets.

No more secrets! Remember the film?


I have followed your supposed revelations to a T,. What you "reveal" is fraudulent at best.
You claim to have some special
"secret knowledge"

yet in the era of Hi definition videography, you can not offer a simple video.

edited to remove harshness
 
Last edited:

Appleheads

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Please refrain from personal name-calling. This is against the forum rules.

Can you back up this claim?
Sorry about that. I see it came off a bit harsh. I will refrain from this.

What have you done precisely?
I am speaking about the double distilled water ozone experiment that Nav has shared in the past. Creating a heavy water that has the same mass but the volume is drastically reduced. I am not saying that it didn't happen, but I was unable to recreate the results. It was the stuff Nav used to cure his skin cancer. I know other people tried and did not get the results. There was probably something else going on, but Nav has yet to reveal. I don't think its Ozone. Also breathing in ozone was probably not as harmless as I was lead to believe.

Perhaps a nitrogen or hydrogen compound, but I really don't think O3 is the candidate.
 

Lux Natura

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Also breathing in ozone was probably not as harmless as I was lead to believe.

Although I do not think the path towards the philosophers matter is obtained via chemistry, a good knowledge of chemistry is useful if one starts ingesting random chemicals, if for nothing else then to understand what can potentially kill you or land you in a hospital. A good knowledge of chemistry has other uses too: it can give you hints or ideas or insights about certain things, especially seemingly random small details that were perhaps mentioned offhand as observed qualities of the philosophers matter, either found in older alchemical texts, or even sometimes online on forums.

Narrowing things down to a "nitrogen / hydrogen compound" (and I would even add carbon / oxygen here) does not really narrow anything down to be honest - basically everything is made of this.

I'm thinking here it's a little bit like this:

Say there is artistic symbolism that has a meaning that is captured via the locations and themes of various engravings, statues, stained glass window landscapes, designs on tiles, etc, and the orientation thereof of these things in a large cathedral. I'm not talking here about fulcanelli. Imagine that the collection of these things, taken as a whole, has a message.

If you investigate the actual bits of rock and stone and wood and glass and metal and tile that were used to build the cathedrals, it will not yield any meaningful explanation of the artistic symbolism. Sure, it can yield clues about the masons who built it, what techniques they used, what procedures they followed, where these materials came from, how they were prepared, and perhaps you can even glean something more about the physical nature of their work, and while the symbols used are composed of these physical matters, the meaning of those symbols are not in those physical matters, nor are they some innate aspect of it. Those matters are just blind carriers.

Ultimately, a certain symbol may be carved in stone, or create via stained glass - but to attribute it to stone or glass is basically getting lost in the weeds.

Oxygen, specifically free oxygen, as a carrier or active participant in various process is interesting, especially because it lends itself, via symbolism, to a whole plethora of other things, that interconnects with everything else, but, in my own opinion, to focus on elemental oxygen is like focusing only on those physical materials that the cathedral is built out of, instead of focusing on what the message is that all those various materials carry.

Ingesting free oxygen then is the equivalent of trying to ingest the physical granite stone the pillar is made out of.

I just had a funny thought - imagine a pre-literate society that has access to libraries that they know contain special lost secret knowledge, but they don't know how to read, so they do the next best thing: eat the books. :LOL:
 

Andro

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Lux Natura,

1. I very much agree/resonate with what you wrote above.

2. I have been enjoying your recent posts on this thread. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 

nav2010

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You went from this:

I know, for an absolute fact

To this:

is enough to suspect that they actually haven't

So which one is it? Absolute fact? Or just a mere suspicion?

Here you go "suspecting" again, and shifting the narrative towards me, and thus taking it to a personal level. I didn't fall off the incarnational truck yesterday :)

No, I'm not speaking about myself. And my avatar is just an avatar. Everyone who searches a little bit can find my mug.
That was just a little humour in a thread that has become a little uptight.
My apologies for being a little obtuse in the thread, love and peace.
 

Lux Natura

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because the olde texts say that the starting matter is "vile".

Perhaps it was common to call this thing "vile" among those alchemists who decided to use that word to hide it, because the exposition of it, and following through with what comes afterwards would ultimately end up being heretical at that time. In fact I do believe those who worked with it and named it clearly would have wound up in some catholic chiropractic torture device, although I do believe many who referred to it not only as "vile", but "despised" were merely adding flourish to something they did not quite understand. In some connotations the adjective of "lowly" makes sense, but only through a certain lens, and I would not describe it as that way at all. One can even, at some times, understand something like "disgust" or "to be thrown away" being applied to it, but again only through certain circumstances and I don't think these types of description are apt whatsoever except in certain situations perhaps, but it certainly does no favors to help.

The many descriptions of it hide something else though - the thing being described is not necessarily of the earth only, and it is not necessarily of spirit only. It is in-between the two things, as it were. Sometimes when being spoken about, as in being described, within the same sentence they may be describing its earthly quality and immediately afterwards its "spiritual" quality, or some specific part of the earthy or spiritual qualities without actually letting the reader know, often times all in just 4 or 5 words, and this jumble is impossible to follow I think unless you know what they are talking about.

I think what someone thinks it is will speak greatly of what path they are following, as it should inform the rest of their work, and perhaps if someone follows that path to its end, and realizes that the path is not fruitful, they will then choose a different thing that fits the various definitions of the starting matter, which can perhaps set them on a different path, or perhaps just the same path over and over again.

There is another way to find it, and I don't think its logical deduction, as I think you could investigate everything you think it can possibly be, starting from A and going to Z, and probably you won't find it, although much of the time you might be close. Perhaps it has more to do with the way one is investigation, versus what they are investigating.

In the end though, whatever matters you work with and choose, I think all have the potential to work, but in some cases it might mean some of them are more difficult to work with than others, for reasons that are incredibly personal to the people working with them, thus I think the urine path can yield success, for example, in people that have a certain disposition to being open to the changes of the process, and in others, who are perhaps rigid materialists in their methodologies, it may not yield any further insights.

There is also the idea that any matter can work, so long as that matter is "opened up", and in this I think there is a great deal to figure out, and it's nearly pointing out the way.

All that to say I think it's clear there is a very specific matter that is the best to work with, and is the most direct as well. I think they said it had to be "revealed by god" for a reason, and we would probably put it in a different way today, which I think is still valid so long as one can disassociate so much of the modern concepts of what religion has done, and reduce it down to the core of what it is supposed to be. It's just as common nowadays though as it was then, and perhaps it is even harder to find nowadays too, since we are so overwhelmed by distractions in general, but even nowadays everything said about it still applies.

In writing this I have more or less said what I believe that matter is, but I don't want to say what I think about it out right, and I have no illusions that what I think on it here is more or less legitimate than what others do - it doesn't really matter to say it, what matters is if the matter does what it is supposed to do, whether that is charged water, or fermented urine, or extracts from certain seeds of trees, or whatever.
 

Andro

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Lux Natura,

If the church would engage in chiropractic adjustments over this, it kind of boils down your choice of matter to stuff like blood, mother's milk, semen, feces or human body parts (flesh, bones, etc). It's unlikely that the church would persecute people over some metals or minerals, unless it's gold or silver, in which case the church would probably want the precious metals for itself... And the cannibalistic communion ritual would reduce it even further to literal flesh and/or blood... The famous "Aphorisms and Process" of Bacstrom's (unfinished) initiation strongly indicates working with the blood of young males (*), or at least another body fluid of such...

I think there would be no big issue with saying out loud what you think this matter is (in your view). It has most likely already been named on this forum a few times over the years.


(*) The Bacstrom text mentions multiplication with "Mercury" or the "Radical Humidity" of metals. It is very unlikely that regular metallic Hg is referred to here, but the actual alchemical Mercury of Metals. How and wherefrom to derive this metallic water is another story, perhaps... The same Bacstrom text also explicitly says that the Universal Medicine can be made from the Radical Humidity from any of the kingdoms.

If we look at Ripley's Liber Secretisimus, we could deduce it might be a work with either urine or blood.

George Ripley said:
Take our Artificial Antimony, but not the Natural Antimony as it comes out of the Earth, for that is too dry for our work, and hath little or no humidity, or fatness in it, but take as I say, our Artificial Antimonial Compound, which is abundantly replenished with the Dew of Heaven and the fatness and unctuosity of the earth, wherein precious Oils and rich Mercuries are by Nature closely sealed up, and hidden from the eyes of all ignorant deriders of the great and wonderful mysteries of Almighty God, to the end that seeing they should not see, nor understand, what he hath enclosed in the most obvious, common, and contemptible beginnings of all Things in the whole World.
 

Philosophical

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In the end though, whatever matters you work with and choose, I think all have the potential to work, but in some cases it might mean some of them are more difficult to work with than others, for reasons that are incredibly personal to the people working with them, thus I think the urine path can yield success, for example, in people that have a certain disposition to being open to the changes of the process, and in others, who are perhaps rigid materialists in their methodologies, it may not yield any further insights.

One thing I can attest to is that working with subjects closer to one's own being has been associated with some very dark nights of the soul for myself, though there was also a lot of other things going on at the time which may have contributed to it. In retrospect I feel this was at play a lot as well. As if the part which is being worked on is holographically affecting the whole of it's origin.

Ultimately, myself, I think that many matters (dare I say ALL matters) can work. However one might have to source different aspects of it from different matters unless one chooses wisely. The fundamental matter that is being worked is the same, no matter its origin, although I would certainly NOT want to put anything in my body if it is encased in an envelope that is at odds with my physical form. One could source mercury from plastic and put it into a body furnished from sand (speaking theoretically only here), or one could make it from one single thing which contains within itself everything needed for the work, found anywhere a man can go. It certainly narrows down the things it could be.
 

Lux Natura

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Andro:

I agree with the Ripley quote wholeheartedly, with the caveat that the understanding of the word "contemptible" is an expression of cultural learning / indoctrinations, in so far as a child would not consider the matter contemptible by default, although I would say the way a child views the matter and the way an adult, that casts it aside, views it is completely different.

Yes I believe it has been mentioned on this forum but I think in a way that is not 100% direct in how it is being described, but I have not read all the posts here (to be honest though I have spent many months just reading posts, so I have read through most of them). It's also one of those things that, if you know how to look, you see it everywhere being alluded to. Me and the Mrs were watching x-files last night after I wrote my post above, and like an interesting coincidence there was something mentioned in that episode that made me think the writers knew of this matter. Then again, perhaps it's a case of "when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail", and my mind was filling in connections that were not purposely put there by the writers of that episode.

The church, in its quest for total dominance of allowable thought, was adamant in quashing not only people who worked with certain physical matters in what they considered heretical ways (i.e. exploratory medicine / anatomy), but also people who worked with matters in an intellectual way as well.

So for example the publishing of Galileo's works ultimately caused him to be found guilty of Heresy, and he was sentenced to live the rest of his life under house arrest for the smallest of indiscretions, as he was allowed to publish his heliocentric hypothesis so long as it was made clear that it was a mere hypothesis, and he was required to include praise of god as the ultimate architect. When he did so, he had a character in his book speak of god being the ultimate architect, but the church though that the character was a sort of a simpleton, and they took offence to this, and thus he was tried and found guilty of heresy. Safe to say the bar for heresy was pretty darn low!

My view is that the interaction of the matter with the alchemist is important, perhaps even the most indispensable aspect of it, and it is due to this interaction (and subsequent processes which can be described as the opening of the matter, reduction of it, energizing it, using it to capture, using it as a nest, using it to extract principles, and so on) that is the key. Many matters can be used, some can be vile, some could be urine, but many will not be vile. Some may be rare or hard to find. I don't know if this next part makes any sense, but I think that if you find the matter which you think is the matter, and work with it, and then afterwards treat it poorly, or speak ill of it, I think it's entirely possible to "forget" what the matter actually is, or have it somehow taken from you. My experience here is that the matter is of two worlds: it has an earthly part and a celestial part, or that it exist "in between" these two extremes.

As if the part which is being worked on is holographically affecting the whole of it's origin.

I think so too, also why it's like a secret that protects itself, as the awareness of this fractal, or micro in macro and macro in micro, or even I would call it "dual nature", is part of the process. I think without this awareness, you are working with a dead matter which perhaps will not yield any results and thus the matter can be cast aside as if it's "not the matter", but with the awareness, it is "the matter", and yields results. Like the double slit experiment, the actions of the observer form part of the process or rather influences the results. Only thing I would say here, that unlike in the double slit experiment, where all is required is any observer, in this case it requires more than that, a little bit more than just the passive act of observing, perhaps even a bit of an active act or working and contemplating as it were.

The fundamental matter that is being worked is the same, no matter its origin

Yes. I think theologically we can reduce everything back to being sourced from one origin, and even scientifically we can reduce everything back to one origin as well, but both of these are models which perhaps are not 100% correct, but mere maps of how different systems trace the causality of creation. One can also map creation not as a one time "causal clock that was wound up" but also as constant gradient or waterfall of creation (if one uses a above/below division) or a constant expansive emanation (from center outwards), but ultimately I think it has a singular source, and a singular origin as well. It appears in many different ways under many different guises as it progresses along, just as a physical matter can at one point appear as a sea shell, another point as a limestone cavern, and later on as the lime-light at a Victorian opera house.

found anywhere a man can go. It certainly narrows down the things it could be.

Hid in the last place to look even. Well, even then it's also something that requires it to be recognized, and that recognition necessarily means a framework of understanding first has to exist, which is why I think it's cast aside as being "not it" if that framework is not already in place.
 

Lux Natura

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One thing I can attest to is that working with subjects closer to one's own being has been associated with some very dark nights of the soul for myself
I think this is very well put.

My take on it: if one works with a subject matter that is as close to ones being as one can get, even the very center of their being, then it will be the darkest night of the soul one can bear. I don't think it's "another kind of alchemy" in the sense that "spiritual alchemy" is something different than working with physical matters - I think it's all the same, but that sameness maybe is only seen from one angle and not the other.

Perhaps we all work with matters that we resonate with in some way for a reason that we don't really think about. Maybe it comes naturally, or we don't realize why we are drawn to certain matters, at least not initially.
 

Andro

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the light of the black sun has no mass.
the action of the light of black sun increases the weight of magnet material
I would phrase this somewhat differently.

It does have mass, which is why it imparts mass to the magnet material, increasing its weight. If it had no mass, it could not impart it.

What it doesn't have, is spacial volume. Therefore, it does not occupy any physical space, yet it is "heavy", even if spatially incorporeal.

However, its aetheric counterpart is the opposite, in this regard. It has no actual mass, yet is highly voluminous.

None of those two can be corporeally tangible on their own. But when combined, we have both mass and volume, i.e. corporification.

This is my current (highly simplified) working model of how all matter comes into being.
 

Dendritic Xylem

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It does have mass, which is why it imparts mass to the magnet material, increasing its weight. If it had no mass, it could not impart it.
This is assuming the increased mass is physically imparted from outside the magnet. Maybe the light is massless, but the magnet/environment gives said light a particular motion which converts it into newly created mass.

There is only one hypothesis today that has any degree of probability; that is the vortex ring theory, which describes an atom as being a vortex ring of ether in the ether. It possesses a definite amount of energy in virtue of the motion which constitutes it; and this motion differentiates it from the surrounding ether, giving it dimensions, elasticity, momentum, and the possibility of translatory, rotary, and vibratory motions and combinations of them. Without going farther into this, it is sufficient, for a mechanical conception, that one should have so much in mind, as it will vastly help in forming a mechanical conception of reactions between atoms and the ether. An exchange of energy between such an atom and the ether is not an exchange between different kinds of things, but between different conditions of the same thing.
Modes of Motion; or, Mechanical Conceptions of Physical Phenomenon - Dolbear 1897

Dolbear has another book titled Matter, Ether, and Motion published in 1892

This is going to be off-topic, but it's just to show that his work might be worth looking into...
Here in the US, we had a series of strange ufo/airship sightings around 1896-1897
These airships performed in a way which is impossible with dirigibles.

A quote from the wiki page on Dolbear...
In 2008, Kent Biffle of the Dallas Morning News reported receiving newspaper clippings from a local lawyer and historian on the subject of UFO sightings in Stephenville, Texas. Apparently in 1897, widespread newspaper reports of a cigar-shaped flying object started to circulate in the Midwest and Southwest. Responding to sightings previously reported in the Morning News, on April 17, 1897, one respected Erath County farmer, C.L. McIlhany discovered such a craft had landed on his property, and reported two human operators, a pilot and an engineer, who gave their names as "S.E. Tilman" and "A.E. Dolbear." The two operators performed minor repairs on their electrically powered lighter-than-air craft, then again flew away.
 

Dendritic Xylem

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This may seem too sciencey for this thread, especially the first 6 minutes...but please watch the whole thing.
It connects many dots quickly and efficiently with wonderful animations. It also fits very well with my post above.

 

Dendritic Xylem

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The primary substance, thrown into infinitesimal whirls of prodigious velocity, becomes gross matter; the force subsiding, the motion ceases and matter disappears, reverting to the primary substance.
Nikola Tesla Man's Greatest Achievement