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. The Philosopher's Matter

LeoRetilus

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It's quite obvious you are putting some effort into having a problem. What was it you said about being blinded? So to start, let me correct that for you. You mean "by your own repeated admission". I would hope it's obvious.

I "came in" at the vitriol image and the cube. I had gone back a few pages to try to discern where and how that came up, and again, admittedly abandoned that as it was too specialized for my level of knowledge.

My first reply was meant as a quick aside, not a tangent. I actually feel guilt for leading a topic astray, so I thought 7 times if there was any "added value" to the contribution.

And what's terribly ironic, is that the deciding factor was YOUR last "I'm the specially chosen one with secret info that will save you all" post, which breaks a cardinal rule of the Forums. And literally, the thought process was.. its certainly no worse than that, and if there's no value in it it would be deleted or moved. And MY ego would have felt no ways about it. It was a shot in the dark.

I related the first passage of the thread to "world systems", and that's what it is. It's a description Fulcanelli's world system. I just related the rambling I was doing about the standard greek/kabbalistic world systems. I thought the "controversal" part of that was my claim that I was aware of the originally post when I made that reply. It's kind of uncanny. Did this cease being a Hermetic and Kabbalistic art? It wasn't my intention to seem like I was attempting to "over talk" Fulcanelli.

Although i've had no personal interactions with Andro, his reputation proceeds him. It took me awhile to parse his reply. Not helping matters was I originally read Greg, FFS, or "Greg, FOR FUCK SAKE". LOL! And then.. I'm being grouped with FF, with whom he had a recent interaction that seemed to get a little testy. Was it reflecting the last interaction with Mods I had? Was it rhetorical, an admonishment?

And then once the redness subsided, I chose to respond in the same spirit I did the last time I had to "parse" him. He was playing Al-Khidr/Green Knight, seeing if there was any wheat in the chaff. Well, that's more previous times.

This time I think, knowing that I'm not a practical alchemical, it was more of a challenge to see if I could.

Otherwise, I expect it would have been moved. At the same time, I don't feel I have the status or "audience" to say "hey guys, let's continue this over here in this thread I created" and expect anyone to "follow me".

Honestly, I keep walking away. Flamel just came up. I had to collected the "hill" from both A the J and Hieroglyphics, and there it was in the text. Searched the thread, theres you guys referring to it.

Then again, randomly, Mater came to mind.. Mother, Matter. searching the thread, even with all the goddesses and related stuff, it doesn't seem to have come up. Philo-sophia-ers Matter.

So as I've said, I've been back through different pieces of this thread a bunch of times recently... I don't see how it's specifically about Fulcanelli? I don't see how you can decide that was specifically in terms of the original dwellings excerpt, and not Andro's question?

I know SO little about Fulcanelli that until the last two days, I always assumed that the term "phonetic cabala" was your own creation. I imagine it's to Florius' frustration that I still haven't read Dwellings. I had "collected" it before it ever started coming up in our conversations.. and I STILL haven't cracked it. I usually at least skim through things looking for images, but I haven't even done that. What I do know is that there was no attempt on Fulcanelli's part for there to be confusion between "phonetic cabala" and the Kabbalah. And that he takes it "cabellus". Not to mention that "cabala" took on a general meaning of "secret". And yet, anytime I see anyone ask you questions, making that mistake and asking you for further information, you make not attempt to correct them or set them on the right path.

What I do know, is the "Game". There is a tradition behind Fulcanelli's "Phonetic Cabala", and it is the "Green Language". See, it's not hard to say when people ask. From the french, vert. The term itself is part of the game. It takes on the sense of "closed" from the word "ouvert" for open. Remove the "ou" to close it. Leaves Vert. Green. Also known as the Language of the Birds.

And mater/mother/matter is an excellent example. So there.

P.s. thanks guys.
So historically little lines of exchange like in this thread here recently has only served to muddle, obsfucate.and highjack this whereto to the honest seeker who is earnestly searching cannot find an honest and true message, and unlike you doesnt already know it all. Its like the servant of servants said himself I do not come here to call those who think themselves self rightous but those who know that they are sinners. The issue as it has been since the fall of man, is pride, is arrogance. And that dear Sir is why you cannot recognize that true matter of the wise. As i say over and over it is truly a humbling experience the day of the ephiphany and in more ways than one.
 
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vigilance

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So historically little lines of exchange like in this thread here recently has only served to muddle, obsfucate.and highjack this whereto to the honest seeker who is earnestly searching cannot find an honest and true message, and unlike you doesnt already know it all. Its like the servant of servants said himself I do not come here to call those who think themselves self rightous but those who know that they are sinners. The issue as it has been since the fall of man, is pride, is arrogance. And that dear Sir is why you cannot recognize that true matter of the wise. As i say over and over it is truly a humbling experience the say of the ephiphany and in more ways than one.

And you don't even understand you're talking to YOURSELF. You have decided this is YOUR thread, and it's about Fulcanelli.

You are the one that regularly reappears in a mania that you call epiphany and make your chosen one with special knowledge claims. Hello? You are aware of your pattern, aren't you? That's supposed to be a phase. You seem stuck there.

And here you provide a perfect example of having no reply to the information provided, and seek refuge in the "Ad hominem".
 

Kibric

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Mother and matter. The matter from mothers. most commonly associated with maternity motherhood.
A prima Materia come from, start with a mother. Hyle. Primordial matter. Primordial matter, the matter from mothers.
Your 1st drink.

You have great posts. We all luv you. :eek:

Edit
The men with breasts associated with motherhood and alchemy, their importance their breasts, their breasts because of the matter that comes from them.
maybe matter mother matrix all originate from breastfeeding. The earliest forms of a mother deity involve milk/matter/hyle from her. Primordial matter.
Breastfeeding is 1st act after birth by the mother in most of the natural world. The 1st prima matter/matrix that is given to sustain life.
The beginning of Motherhood defined historically by the act of breastfeeding.


Edit 2

The black Cube is related to the book of the 9 rocks i think, but i don't know if its relates to the Kabbala. Probably...
 
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LeoRetilus

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And you don't even understand you're talking to YOURSELF. You have decided this is YOUR thread, and it's about Fulcanelli.

You are the one that regularly reappears in a mania that you call epiphany and make your chosen one with special knowledge claims. Hello? You are aware of your pattern, aren't you? That's supposed to be a phase. You seem stuck there.

And here you provide a perfect example of having no reply to the information provided, and seek refuge in the "Ad hominem".
Did you even read this thread? It is about Fulcanelli! The quote that began this thread is from Dwellings. It is a decade old! Were you here when it started? Did you follow it up till now? All of the side conversations/threads offshoots? Any part of the numerous private conversations throughout the years that formed and frame this and other threads?

Did you contribute to its actual subject matter which is alone to identify what matter it was Fulcanelli was talking about in that quote? It is what this thread is about!!! Are any of your musings from either of Fulcanellis's book? No, no, no, no, no...but go ahead and do your thing.

What did you write a book about alchemy that you need an outlet to promote and sell? And me? No one even knows my real name, whats my motivation to share? I share when I feel moved to, out of charity and many times it is because I am contacted either here or on various other places online. I wrote here under RogerC as well! But really, I dont owe anybody anything.
 
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vigilance

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Why were you banned the first time? If you're not careful, you may be heading there again. This is the 3rd thinly veiled attempt to get me in trouble with the mods. (*He has an agenda and/or is trying to sell something!", and that is obviously false). You are arguing/complaining about that decision. Believe it or not, I really don't want to be the catalyst for you getting in trouble. A mod has already weighed in.

Your last comments are so out of left field I don't believe they need a reply. I made no grandiose claims about myself, and talk about myself very little. It was others that have told you I am just here openly sharing whatever may be interesting to others. There's a saying that goes.. great mind discuss ideas, then soemthing else, then lesser minds discuss people. Claims of "personal experience" are the lowest form of "evidence" or "credibility". It is the polar opposite of "Rhetoric" (providing evidence based convincing arguments). Message over Messenger.

What I do here is try to practice/develop my Rhetoric

p.s. happy birthday brother


Edit:

Kibric, thanks! I've never heard of this.. "book of the 9 rocks i think"
 
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LeoRetilus

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Why were you banned the first time? If you're not careful, you may be heading there again. This is the 3rd thinly veiled attempt to get me in trouble with the mods. (*He has an agenda and/or is trying to sell something!", and that is obviously false). You are arguing/complaining about that decision. Believe it or not, I really don't want to be the catalyst for you getting in trouble. A mod has already weighed in.

Your last comments are so out of left field I don't believe they need a reply. I made no grandiose claims about myself, and talk about myself very little. It was others that have told you I am just here openly sharing whatever may be interesting to others. There's a saying that goes.. great mind discuss ideas, then soemthing else, then lesser minds discuss people. Claims of "personal experience" are the lowest form of "evidence" or "credibility". It is the polar opposite of "Rhetoric" (providing evidence based convincing arguments). Message over Messenger.

What I do here is try to practice/develop my Rhetoric

p.s. happy birthday brother


Edit:

Kibric, thanks! I've never heard of this.. "book of the 9 rocks i think"

I only respond to what i perceive, I am not here for personalities or personality conflicts in fact when I returned I made it explicitly clear, for some reason some people here do not like me, in the past it has been because they were selling and or promoting something and I was the guy to target, so yes they knew how to bait me in several ways including personal attacks and eventually I was banned.

I am happy that you feel motivated to share where you can, it is a difficult thing we are all on so different levels of understanding, some of us still searching, some not even knowing where to begin, some completely lost, some on a good path, some mislead, some misguuded internally, and some with the matter identified the work begun, and maybe one or two...the work finished.
My problem is this :
Arrived at this point, we must stop for a moment and wonder; the path, bushy and
covered with brambles and thorns, becomes impassable. Instinctively we guess a gaping
precipice, barely a few steps away. Cruel uncertainty. To continue to advance, holding
the disciple’s hand, would be an act of wisdom? In truth Pandora accompanies us, but
alas! What can we expect from her? The fatal box imprudently opened is empty now.
Nothing is left to us except hope!
Fulcanelli, --Dwellings of The Philosophers

"Spero sperabo! As long as I breathe I hope. "

namely, as long as we humans live, we draw the odem; * as long as we draw the odem, we pull the niter into us; and as long as we draw the air into us, we live according to God s will.
...
Of this divine spirit and life of all things, even our savior Jesus Christ speaks in Matt. 6: man lives not by bread alone but by every word coming out of the mouth of God. Now, if man partakes of this spirit through together with food, so has by consequence something to be gained from man, out of which the master of nature can create something good, and therefore follows just this conclusion,
-ICH..Real and True Road of Hermes


When you finally realized all of these things, you see we all come full circle back to he whom we ran from, it is his way of coaxing us back into his fold, we wayward and rebelious creatures. And we find it was him all along, it is his way to condescend as God to us in numerous ways, and meet us on the level that we are ready to be met on. And yes when I recite the following:

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace
Where there is hatred, let me sow love
Where there is injury, pardon
Where there is doubt, faith
Where there is despair, hope
Where there is darkness, light
And where there is sadness, joy
O Divine Master, grant that I may
Not so much seek to be consoled as to console
To be understood, as to understand
To be loved, as to love
For it is in giving that we receive
And it's in pardoning that we are pardoned
And it's in dying that we are born to Eternal Life
Amen
I am giving him permission

Thank you for the birthday wishes Brother, it means alot!

Regards
 

Argento Vivo

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I only respond to what i perceive, I am not here for personalities or personality conflicts in fact when I returned I made it explicitly clear, for some reason some people here do not like me, in the past it has been because they were selling and or promoting something and I was the guy to target, so yes they knew how to bait me in several ways including personal attacks and eventually I was banned.

I am happy that you feel motivated to share where you can, it is a difficult thing we are all on so different levels of understanding, some of us still searching, some not even knowing where to begin, some completely lost, some on a good path, some mislead, some misguuded internally, and some with the matter identified the work begun, and maybe one or two...the work finished.
My problem is this :
Fulcanelli, --Dwellings of The Philosophers

"Spero sperabo! As long as I breathe I hope. "

-ICH..Real and True Road of Hermes


When you finally realized all of these things, you see we all come full circle back to he whom we ran from, it is his way of coaxing us back into his fold, we wayward and rebelious creatures. And we find it was him all along, it is his way to condescend as God to us in numerous ways, and meet us on the level that we are ready to be met on. And yes when I recite the following:


I am giving him permission

Thank you for the birthday wishes Brother, it means alot!

Regards

Great prayer, by a great saint who have Light to many great people, who then became even great adepts.

Think of friar eliahs......Whose main poem is on the shield of the hermetic warrior of splendor solos.
Think of pseudo-Geber or Paul from Taranti who wrote incredible treatises, and according to fresh news he was the mentor of an alchemical school in the monastery -intra nos-.
Think of roger bacon....etc.... they were all illuminated by the greatest saint.
 

Schmuldvich

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Now, the next question we should ask ourselves is quite simple: what is the philosopher's matter? It is the million dollar question.

PWhrMoO.jpg

Cyliani describes our Matter as "that which served to form the body of primitive man".

Fulcanelli informs us that which formed the body of Adam is clay.

Dwellings Of The Philosopher's by Fulcanelli said:
...the vase of nature made of the same red clay God used to form the body of Adam with.

So what is the Philosopher's Matter? We know the sacred texts of the world affirm that the body of primitive man was formed from clay.

Elsewhere I have mentioned that I too work with Clay as the foundation of my Work. Its preparation is rarely discussed and if discussed it is often veiled in cryptic language.

In the paragraph below Fulcanelli deems this as the simple and modest "way of the poor".

Dwellings Of The Philosopher's by Fulcanelli said:
From beginning to end, only the help of a coarse clay abundantly available, of such a low cost that in our time ten francs are sufficient to acquire a quantity more than enough for our needs. It is the clay and the way of the poor, of the simple and the modest, of those whom nature fills with wonder even by her most humble manifestations.

Cyliani says "the body of man..." (whom is the microcosm of the world) "...contains power and energy which is foreign to it". With this in mind we should realize that which is within our flask (which is the microcosm of ourselves) also contains energy which is foreign to it. This energy is what we as Artist concentrate within our flasks. Cyliani calls this energy Life.

Walter Russell calls this energy Light. He divides this matter into two polarities as should we as Alchemists.

BzwlPin.png


R67uRSa.png

Cyliani shows us that the Philosopher's Matter is one matter.

He elucidates that this one matter is divided into two polarities which he calls "Fixed & Volatile".

We work with these two substances (i.e. our Heaven and our Earth) and use that which is Above to impart energy into that which is Below, knowing that this substance we see Above is only a temporary manifestation of the one Matter of the Philosophers from which it originates. This can be understood similarly to how we can will ourselves to have a sudden massive burst of willpower when needed. Just as we use this willpower as an energy generator so do we use the Active substance of our divided Philosopher's Matter as half of the equation for our Alchemical motor.



apa0yLz.jpg
 

Andro

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Cyliani shows us that the Philosopher's Matter is one matter.

He elucidates that this one matter is divided into two polarities which he calls "Fixed & Volatile".

To be a little more exact, Cyliani speaks about "Two Matters of the Same Origin".

Cyliani said:
At this point, I must warn you never to forget that only two matters of the same origin are needed: One volatile, the other fixed.
That there are two ways, the dry and the humid. I personally follow the latter by preference and by duty, though the former is familiar to me. It is done with only one matter.
The Path with "only one matter" refers to the path without metallic gold, which also described by ICH as the "dry way". ICH also strongly suggests that the matter/magnet is sourced from Man (and Air).

Cyliani's writing is quite influenced by ICH, he even references him as "the anonymous author printed in Leipzig in 1782".
 

Florius Frammel

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Victor Hugo - Notre Dame - Part II - Chapter 4 said:
The Sun arises from fire, the moon from the sun; fire is the soul of the universe; its elemental particles travel and fall unstopable throughout the whole world in endless streams! On those points in the sky where they cross each other, they produce light; on those points where they cross down on earth they produce gold...light, gold - both are the same! Fire in its solid state...the difference between visible and touchable, between liquid and solid of one and the same substance, between vapors of water and ice, nothing more...those are not just dreams...that's the common law of nature...but how do you start it to carry the secret of this law of nature over to science? What? This light, which floods my hand is gold? It is all just about to condense this substance particles, which are spread according to a certain law, according to another certain law.

Translated from the german original ;)
 

Argento Vivo

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Very nice post Schmuldvich!

Nice quotes from Russell.

In Tantra (not the western corrupt tantra) there is the same things going on.. there is the "Matrix and the Fathrix" the mother is shakti, energy, the father is shiva, spirit. In sankhya philosophy also known as: Prakriti (translated as first matter) and Purusha (tr. as spirit of self/god).

More in depth, those two principles which are metaphysical, have correspondence in our plane, as Agni (fire), and Soma (water/nectar).

Even in our body are there. Agni being inside of muladhara chakra (=earth), Soma being on top of the head.

When, by repeated action of circulations of the Spirit upon the Fire in the most bottom part (earth) they start to rise the Fire, and fix the Water, they finally Unite toghether (for example in the heart chakra, during meditation) thus producing Surya, which means Sun.

Now Surya is what we call Son of the Sun, carrying the life of the father and the power of the mother...

Just to give an oriental touch.

PS, interesting how God in Genesis created man out of clay + life breath, and Christ in Quran created a bird out of clay and his breath.



PPS* so ICH say in wet path there is gold, but in Recreations says gold is used in dry way... any comment on this?

Greetings!
 
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vigilance

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Cyliani describes our Matter as "that which served to form the body of primitive man".
Fulcanelli informs us that which formed the body of Adam is clay.

So what is the Philosopher's Matter? We know the sacred texts of the world affirm that the body of primitive man was formed from clay.

Elsewhere I have mentioned that I too work with Clay as the foundation of my Work. Its preparation is rarely discussed and if discussed it is often veiled in cryptic language.

Cyliani says "the body of man..." (whom is the microcosm of the world) "...contains power and energy which is foreign to it". With this in mind we should realize that which is within our flask (which is the microcosm of ourselves) also contains energy which is foreign to it. This energy is what we as Artist concentrate within our flasks. Cyliani calls this energy Life.

Vivo brings up clay and the birds. The Quran also states that man was created from a blood clot. I know "blood" is significant like milk. Adam is red earth. I've always assumed the "earth" is clay, and the red is the blood. Clay is still significant in science and medicine. What carries life energy in the physical world? milk and blood.

Who is the "primitive man"? Is it the first physical man, Adam Rishon, or the primordial "spiritual" archetype/blueprint, Adam Kadmon. Micro or macro proswhatever. The substance of Adam Kadmon is "divine light", which I believe is "the fire which does not burn". Fulcanelli is taking about Rishon, but who is Cyliani referring to by "primitive"?


Cyliani shows us that the Philosopher's Matter is one matter.
He elucidates that this one matter is divided into two polarities which he calls "Fixed & Volatile".

Are these concepts related to Static/Dynamic, Passive/Active? I'd add in a general sense, that static is "timeless", outside of time, and dynamic only exists within it.

Edit: The Mother literally sacrifices sharing her life force during pregnancy first through her blood, in the "womb", then through her milk, after the external physical manifiestation.
 
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Argento Vivo

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Vivo brings up clay and the birds. The Quran also states that man was created from a blood clot. I know "blood" is significant like milk. Adam is red earth. I've always assumed the "earth" is clay, and the red is the blood. Clay is still significant in science and medicine. What carries life energy in the physical world? milk and blood.

Who is the "primitive man"? Is it the first physical man, Adam Rishon, or the primordial "spiritual" archetype/blueprint, Adam Kadmon. Micro or macro proswhatever. The substance of Adam Kadmon is "divine light", which I believe is "the fire which does not burn". Fulcanelli is taking about Rishon, but who is Cyliani referring to by "primitive"?




Are these concepts related to Static/Dynamic, Passive/Active? I'd add in a general sense, that static is "timeless", outside of time, and dynamic only exists within it.

Edit: The Mother literally sacrifices sharing her life force during pregnancy first through her blood, in the "womb", then through her milk, after the external physical manifiestation.

Yes Greg, and Bacstrom pointed out An interesting process (according to him its a rosicrucian one) that involves blood in a single vessel, with only separation of plasma. And a slow and sweet coction to bring the white spirit up, and then joining It with the red earth.

PS. According ti indian tantra gradation the passive is Kali (which stems from root kala-time), while the active is shiva. This considering the sexual aspects, which are reverse to the male-female aspects..
 

LeoRetilus

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O thou who camest from above
the fire celestial to impart,
kindle a flame of sacred love
on the mean altar of my heart

There let it for thy glory burn
with inextinguishable blaze,
and trembling to its source return
in humble prayer and fervent praise.

Jesus, confirm my heart's desire
to work, and speak, and think for thee;

still let me guard the holy fire,
and still stir up the gift in me.

Ready for all thy perfect will,
my acts of faith and love repeat;
till death thy endless mercies seal,
and make the sacrifice complete
- Charles Wesley
 

Seraphim

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Thanks for sharing everyone.

Thanks for sharing Schmuldvich, very interesting.

Thank you Florius reminds me of Isaac Newton?

"Are not rays of light very small bodies emitted from shining substances?"

Very nice post Schmuldvich!

Nice quotes from Russell.

In Tantra (not the western corrupt tantra) there is the same things going on.. there is the "Matrix and the Fathrix" the mother is shakti, energy, the father is shiva, spirit. In sankhya philosophy also known as: Prakriti (translated as first matter) and Purusha (tr. as spirit of self/god).

More in depth, those two principles which are metaphysical, have correspondence in our plane, as Agni (fire), and Soma (water/nectar).

Even in our body are there. Agni being inside of muladhara chakra (=earth), Soma being on top of the head.

When, by repeated action of circulations of the Spirit upon the Fire in the most bottom part (earth) they start to rise the Fire, and fix the Water, they finally Unite toghether (for example in the heart chakra, during meditation) thus producing Surya, which means Sun.

Now Surya is what we call Son of the Sun, carrying the life of the father and the power of the mother...

Just to give an oriental touch.

PS, interesting how God in Genesis created man out of clay + life breath, and Christ in Quran created a bird out of clay and his breath.



PPS* so ICH say in wet path there is gold, but in Recreations says gold is used in dry way... any comment on this?

Greetings!

Thanks for sharing. Enjoyed the "Now Surya is what we call Son of the Sun, carrying the life of the father and the power of the mother..."

Is this the verse to which you are referring of Jesus Christ?

Surah Ali 'Imran 3:49
"And will make Him ['Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe."
 
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Andro

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Elsewhere I have mentioned that I too work with Clay as the foundation of my Work.
I don't recall you ever mentioning working with clay as the foundation of your work. Would you mind posting a link to where you mentioned it?
 

Argento Vivo

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Thanks for sharing everyone.

Thanks for sharing Schmuldvich, very interesting.

Thank you Florius reminds me of Isaac Newton?

"Are not rays of light very small bodies emitted from shining substances?"



Thanks for sharing. Enjoyed the "Now Surya is what we call Son of the Sun, carrying the life of the father and the power of the mother..."

Is this the verse to which you are referring of Jesus Christ?

Surah Ali 'Imran 3:49
"And will make Him ['Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe."

Yes that is for sure one quotation from Coran, i dont remember now where else i read of It. Maybe from An apocryphal gospel.. but that is the fact, he made a bird out of clay and his breath...

In latin, if you didnt know already, breath is called Respiro.

Res meaning the material thing, + Spiro, that is the Spirit. The ancients gave It this very precise name... the thing carrying the Life Force...

May the Force be' with all you.
 

Schmuldvich

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Schmuldvich said:
Elsewhere I have mentioned that I too work with Clay as the foundation of my Work.
I don't recall you ever mentioning working with clay as the foundation of your work. Would you mind posting a link to where you mentioned it?

In the "Touchstone" thread and "EM's P.S. Thread" I talk about Clay.

Elsewhere around the internet on other forums such as AI and AP I have expounded more than I have here on AF.


The sun and the moon [move] by precise calculation,
And the stars and trees prostrate.
And the heaven He raised and imposed the balance
That you not transgress within the balance.
And establish weight in justice and do not make deficient the balance.
And the earth He laid [out] for the creatures.
Therein is fruit and palm trees having sheaths [of dates]
And grain having husks and scented plants.
He created man from clay like [that of] pottery.
And He created the jinn from a smokeless flame of fire.
[He is] Lord of the two sunrises and Lord of the two sunsets.
He released the two seas, meeting [side by side];
Between them is a barrier [so] neither of them transgresses.
From both of them emerge pearl and coral.

-Surah Ar-Rahman
 

alfr

Invenies
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Hello everyone

CUBE fig and symbols URINE AND SATURN

have you noticed that on the ososceles triangular arm with tip down above the CUBE in an image commented by our friend Leo there are two alchemical symbols of Saturn and of urine and the number 1

and from urine as they have already seen derives in a black dragon or a one saturn black stone saturnia ? black stone of humble human origins? View the dragon , black stone photos etc view in the web of our dear friend allies and collaborators french inside at the Librairie du Merveilleux, the photos on dragon, black stone, etc in the file DU MERCURE EN GÉNÉRAL DANS L'OEUVRE FORME ET ASPECT(cliquez sur les mots clefs pour voir les images)

http://www.librairiedumerveilleux.org/alchimie.textes.html

NOW THE TRUE WAY HERMETE SAY THE MATTER BECAME BY HUMAN ALL VERY SIMILAR AS CYLIANI AND RECERATION HERMETICAL

AND

friend leo in his posts tells us ...

Interesting to note! The Mohamadean and Soloman gold mines? In the desert sand? Only thing found around the Temple of AMUN was, sal ammoniac..derived from camel dung!

and more in different post about this leo say

Thus rectification therefore happens upon the first gathered salt of the most humble human origins, murky, cloudy dark and impure and gradually raised to bright, dazzling, white and pure celestial power. Divine
.................................................................
nb .. sal ammoniac .. is extracted also from urine etc nb the most humble human origins.
and URINE NB it is a one simbol alchemical in the ososceles triamgle up CUBE

ONLY MAMY COINCIDENCE ???

and NB ammonia salt etc in the and in the environments of hard and extreme dangerous psychodelia and of extra buzz the ammonia salt etc is used and added to marjuana and differen sunstance etc and it use as snorted and absorbe vapor it etc for dangerous hallucinatory unpack and for strong fly...an experience very dangerous and very intoxicating that they too define as supreme and absolute....

quote here by one examplehttps://softsecrets.com/it/2015/10/23/quello-che-non-vedi/

(....But ammonia is also used to amplify the effects of poor quality weed, also from the east. Marijuana is dipped in ammonia and dried again. Even if the THC content of the herb in question is very low, thanks to the effects of ammonia, it will appear to the consumer to be of better quality than it actually is, at least in terms of high. .....)


my best regard
 
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Merovee

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HTML:
Elsewhere I have mentioned that I too work with Clay as the foundation of my Work.

Oh yes, this is interesting because I have a number of indications that alchemy (at least) can be traced back to the ceramic age, not to the (later) metallurgical age, which is what is normally assumed, and which would also result from a normal investigation.
Clay and loam in the ceramic age actually stood for the creative primordial material, which was malleable with water, formed by human hands with art, transformed with fire and given permanent strength. At first it is said to have been the secret of the gods, but man acquired the knowledge about it and now did the same as the gods, especially when he discovered the potter's wheel for himself. It is not surprising, therefore, that in this age, in addition to the old worship of stones, the circle and the spiral came to the fore and legends were formed that saw the Creator God at the potter's wheel, forming man from clay.

There are even references in alchemy to clay (or loam). Our matter is often enough called a simple earth. And it's said that the matter of the stone itself is the vessel (vas hermetis) in which the stone is formed. In fact, the first vessels must have been made of clay, since neither glass making nor the art of forging were known at that time. Nor do we find any contradiction to the statement, which is always very clearly emphasized, that our raw material must be of mineral nature.
So, there are good reasons to consider this matter, but there are also points that speak against it. I don't want to discuss this here, nor deny it, I just want to say that I am working with a different matter - just to clarify this.


However, it is not about which metal or plant etc. we have to take, but about where we can find our metallic natures. These are called Mercury and Sulphur. The third nature, Salt, is composed of the other two natures. It does not help to speculate, but must be thought through very well and weighed up in the best way.
It is absolutely necessary to recognize the actual mode of action of nature and the creative principle from its own root. This is why the ancients wasted so much effort in explaining these interrelationships to us in detail. The problem is that we approach it with a completely unsuitable concept. This concept unfolds before our eyes a model of the world that stands up to our modern, scientific thinking, but has little in common with the real world and its nature. Therefore the first step in the Great Work should be to drop this concept, i.e. the entire scientific model, like a hot potato. For our work it is simply a useless and harmful ballast.

Of course the alchemists see themselves also as scientists, but they have a completely different concept and a world model that is very different from ours. But this is only in passing, here it is all about our Materia Prima, or what substance we should stuff into our glass.

So think well, where the essence of Mercury or the essence of sulfur could be found, and which salt it could be that embraces and unites both. This salt is no ordinary salt; it is liquid and heavy like mercury, and solid and fiery like sulfur. It may be that one or the other already knows it, but I will still not name it here. It is the task of each individual to find certainty for himself and to seek his own way. But to whom it should already be known, I would like to say that its secrets are locked deep within, and that a special art is needed to bring them out.
kind regards
 

Merovee

Interiora
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Instead of Editing...

Hello,
I usually prefer a rather flowery, poetic way of expression, but probably such a speech with all its subtleties cannot be transferred well in the context of my English knowledge, which can then probably lead to some ambiguities and misunderstandings.

Due some private exchanges I have now learned that my contribution could easily be misunderstood, which might require clarification:
It was not my intention to add another suggestion to all the already existing ones, so I did not mention one. I just wanted to point out that everyone should check his or her preferred idea to see if it agrees with the alchemists' Mercury-Sulfur-Thesis, because these two, they say, constitute the entire basis.
But it is not enough to use common concepts, because the alchemists were based on a completely different concept. But if someone believes that a certain matter he has (e.g. a certain salt) fulfills this requirement, but does not behave as expected or hoped for, then it could also be because the effective potential is trapped on a deeper level. So it could well be that you have the right matter, but do not know the right method to unfold its effect. With this I wanted to express that: 1.) one should not give up hastily, and 2.) one should also prepare oneself to have to master a second hurdle.
Exactly these two things (i.e., what our subject is, and how to unlock it) have not been explained comprehensibly in any work of the alchemists, so you always and without exception have to master this double task by yourself.

I say all this not because I want to make a special profile of myself here, but because I think it is very important and I miss it in the previous contributions (Although I have to admit that I have not been able to read all posts :rolleyes:).
so long
 

Schmuldvich

Lapidem
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I usually prefer a rather flowery, poetic way of expression, but probably such a speech with all its subtleties cannot be transferred well in the context of my English knowledge, which can then probably lead to some ambiguities and misunderstandings.

I just wanted to point out that everyone should check his or her preferred idea to see if it agrees with the alchemists' Mercury-Sulfur-Thesis, because these two, they say, constitute the entire basis.
But it is not enough to use common concepts, because the alchemists were based on a completely different concept. But if someone believes that a certain matter he has (e.g. a certain salt) fulfills this requirement, but does not behave as expected or hoped for, then it could also be because the effective potential is trapped on a deeper level. So it could well be that you have the right matter, but do not know the right method to unfold its effect. With this I wanted to express that: 1.) one should not give up hastily, and 2.) one should also prepare oneself to have to master a second hurdle.

I say all this not because I want to make a special profile of myself here, but because I think it is very important and I miss it in the previous contributions.

Spot on!

How someone in this day and age can claim to have "made the Philosopher's Stone" and stick by their claim when it is clearly not in alignment with the Adepts is beyond me... If it does not coincide with the descriptions the Masters provided, nor does it do the things they say, nor does it agree with what the Alchemists wrote, how can it possibly be what this person claims it is?! We must put our Matter to the test.

Only when working in a correct way are we able to unfold our Prima Materia and observe the effective potential trapped on a deeper level.

Well said, Merovee
 

nav2010

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I will say a few things before I leave regarding this subject and what I've learned. In the beginnings of alchemy there were no teachers of the art to learn from. The pioneers of the art only had two things they could learn from, one being the observable universe and the other was themselves.
Alchemy and it's humble beginnings wasn't about ancient sages working in their labs convinced that the prima materia existed and could transmute base metals to gold or make you immortal or cure any illness. It's quite impossible for that to have happened. No one suddenly wakes up one morning and decides he's going to transmute silver to gold, life isn't like that and never will be.
Most things are discovered as an act of progression and accidental discoveries in the act of progression.
A prime example, someone 2000 years ago might have accidentally rubbed a white cotton garment against a particular tree and stained the garment. After several washes of the garment it was found it will not wash out. The person then decides if it won't wash out then that particular tree bark can be used in dying cotton a particular colour. So for the next twenty years they use it as a dye. Then one day a man who has an illness which he might have had for several years starts dying clothes and finds his illness starts subsiding after repeated contact with the dye. So now the tree bark has two purposes, dying cotton and curing a certain illness. This happens not just with trees and other plants but with naturally occurring salts such as copper sulfate which is an excellent dye but also removes fungal infections rather well.
That is how alchemy was born, working with everyday natural minerals and vegetation for thousands of years where progression and accidental progression take human kind one step further in understanding the universe. No one ever woke up one day and decided to be an alchemist, it was just natural progression.
Regardless of what anyone tells you and regardless of anything you read in manuscripts where sages scream out how difficult it is and how you could be here a thousand years and still not discover the prima materia or philosophers matter, ignore it. If that were the case then the pioneers of alchemy would never have progressed in the first place.
So how did it progress? It progressed because of pure curiosity. One day a man sits with his son under an oak tree and he tells his son that this tree has been around a thousand years. He tells him that this tree was around when his great grand parents were around and when their great grand parents were around. The tree spans dozens of generations of his family. Ten years later, the son looks at the tree and thinks to himself - why can that tree live a thousand years but I will only live a hundred years?
In that very microsecond of curiosity that went through his mind, alchemy was born.
Regardless of where that journey took him and regardless of where this journey will take you, you must understand that alchemy is not the study of the complex but the study of the simple and the simple workings of the observable universe in front of you.
It is not magic, it is not spiritual and full of hocus pocus clap trap, anyone who tells you otherwise does not understand alchemy or the universe.
Anyone that tells you at school or college that earth elements are created in Supernova explosions is not deliberately lying, they have been misled and they don't know any different. That is just how the world is unfortunately.
When Flamel found the secret book of Abraham the Jew and went on a pilgrimage to find someone who could read ancient Hebrew, he struggled for the next twenty years before he understood what was written. In his letters and manuscripts he hides his discovery discretely because a man struggling for twenty years is not about to unleash on the world what he found so difficult to achieve. Why did he find it difficult? Because he didn't start at the beginning, he didn't sit under the oak tree and ponder nature. You cannot start alchemy in the middle, you always have to start at the beginning.
Flamel in his writings although he was discrete also left a couple of clues where to start, he reproduced images of an oak tree and a rose tree. There is only one universal connection between the two respective trees. It is simple yet a genius act of nature involving a certain wasp. The wasp helped us all.
The times of whispered secrets are over, the times of ancient secretive ramblings and hiding things in cryptic messages are over, the times of charlatans and liars are over, there is no future in this kind of behaviour any longer if we are to exist as a species and there is no more time.
They know who I am, they know what I'm doing and saying, I might not get there with you but once you print words and put things in peoples heads it's almost impossible to undo it. 2020 was the start of a breakaway civilization on this planet and none of us are invited, don't let them do it. Read what I wrote over the past two days
Go to the beginning and ponder the oak, follow its chemistry, follow it's progression and it's purpose on planet earth. It's not the complex, it's the simple. Stop trying to understand stupid alchemical expressions such as water which makes the hands not wet and expressions like firey water, you'll just mash your brain. Stop trying to work out cryptic nonsense written by people who had their brains removed at birth.
Just like the pioneers of the art at the very beginning, all you need is yourself, an oak tree, some gentle observation and a will to succeed and my God succeed you will. Do not take it down the wrong path and you all know deep inside which is the wrong path, that path is no longer of any use and you will suffer as a consequence. When you achieve what you're looking for don't withhold it, spread it like wild fire all over the planet, tell every man and his dog.
They want to play games with our lives, don't play, wreck everything they are doing. Get the secrecy and cryptic crap into the dustbin, those days are over trust me.
Good luck and take care.
 
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alfr

Invenies
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TOTAL AGREE WITH YOU NAV2002
NO ABSOLUTELY USELESS SECRET AND ALL OPEN AND SPEAK CLEAR AND OPEN ON ALL THE MANY DIFFERENT WAYS ALCHEMY (and NB the opinions etc of those who disagree on what.....
as we have always said we are no interest and nothing matters to us)

ALCHENY WAYS THAT IT IS WILL BE THE TRUE ONLY HOPE FOR HUMANITY

AND ON THIS WE BY ALWAYS THINK AND DO IT

SO FRIEND STAY HERE AND DO ALL THIS TOGETHER

our best regard
 
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black

Hermes Trismegistus
Patron of the Arts
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Hi nav

I do not agree with your views on Alchemy and will be responding to what you have
written here.

It will take a few days as I have some very pressing family commitments at the
moment.

Please bear with me.