The Curse of the Sages

ArgentSeeker

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So, what's the consensus on whiplash from revealing alchemical secrets? Is it an active algorithm, a "taskforce" of peepee slappers who punish transgressors, or is it a cognito-hazard pushed by authors to keep silence "lest all the hogs come to the honeypot"? What say you who think they might have experienced it, and what is the criteria against which it might be lessened? I think Kibric had something of an incident because he revealed his method in one of his threads. I shan't repeat it, since I've already had a bad few weeks myself and don't need any more trouble. I'm curious to what extent one ought to be open, as there are individuals like Mr. Kevin and his Modern Hermetic Alchemy which is wildly open, and he updates his text multiple times per week, and he seems to be doing well. Obviously, assuming his literature is correct, he has The Stone, but I'm not sure if that would fully protect you.
 

ghetto alchemist

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what's the consensus on whiplash from revealing alchemical secrets?
I thought it was only ever about breaking an oath of secrecy.
If you never took an oath to begin with, then how can there be possibly be a punishment?
 

Andro

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I think Kibric had something of an incident because he revealed his method in one of his threads. I shan't repeat it, since I've already had a bad few weeks myself and don't need any more trouble.
What is it that you're not going to repeat?
 

Andro

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If you never took an oath to begin with, then how can there be possibly be a punishment?
Good deeds (especially of such magnitude) seldom go unpunished, even if there's no oath.
 

ArgentSeeker

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What is it that you're not going to repeat?
He shared his method for making The Stone in a thread he made, involving m***. Afterwards he had his Ragnarok experience. Of course, he could just be getting a negative result from the red oil he made, but I think all roads lead to Rome, so to speak, and he made something potent. As I wrote this, a tiny black ball shoots over my head. Bastards.
 

Andro

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So the implication is there's free agents looking to punish those who are too open? Shitty.
Worse. The "agents" who deliver the "punishment" are often the very ones you've helped.
 

ArgentSeeker

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Well, I guess that's something that can occur if you give the information to the wrong person and they use it for the wrong reasons, but I guess I was more talking about a sort of manipulation of events that would cause negative events to occur as a sort of punishment in general, rather than ingratitude or retribution from individuals in-particular. I'm not sure if it's an unconscious force (people like Steiner and Rubaphilos assert that there's Nakash that will hinder you internally) where people are punishing themselves, or if it's an external regulator. It sounds like it might be both, depending on circumstances? Of course, I don't know if you're talking about meatbags or individuals who fall under the "other" category. I'm just wondering if there's something I can monitor or be aware of regarding what it or isn't "dangerous", so to speak. Obviously silence is golden, but I have a compulsion to share, for whatever reason. Certain things from certain people I won't be spreading since I've been asked to respect confidentiality, but other things regarding the "in-between" of ORMUS and LENR seem like they're less forbidden to talk about, alphabet agencies destroying research data regarding such subjects not-withstanding (fuck you guys, by the way).
 

Andro

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if you give the information to the wrong person and they use it for the wrong reasons
And if you give information to the "right" person, it will inevitably reach the "wrong" person(s).

"Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
 

ArgentSeeker

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Well, absolutely none of my questions have been answered, thank you, but I do have some things to think about now, so there's that. I'm of the opinion that the secret keeps itself, to a certain extent. You can tell normies that things like nuclear tunneling are now being researched, but they won't get it. Conversely, there are several "gates" of understanding you have to go through (in my experience) before you can even start to piece-together the traditional process, and that takes months and months of research (unless you just get it directly). Indications from a great deal of the adepts seem to imply that there's a larger economy of knowledge and events going on, but navigating the do's and don'ts of arcane lore as a novice seems to be trickier than I would like. Oh well, I guess I'll figure it out.
 

Phyllobius

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I wondered about this many times and went to the conclusions that there's a meta egregore protecting the innards of the universe.
 

Andro

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Just like Hermes the Thrice-Great, the Hermetic Curse is also threefold:

1. The Curse of Mercury: This is the curse of the True Sages, the Crème de la Crème of humanity. This curse consists of the incredible amount of sophistry they use to conceal the equally incredible simplicity of the Great Work. Their Sublime Mercury is the greatest trickster of all.

2. The Curse of Sulfur: This is the curse of the world's potentates, the self-appointed rulers of humanity. This curse consists of destroying/annihilating (or sometimes co-opting) anyone or anything that may pose a threat to their "authority". Their Arsenical Sulfur is all-devouring.

3. The Curse of Salt: This is the curse of the common folk. This curse consists of fickle ethics/values and a general lack of coherence & clarity, while simultaneously living in well-rehearsed denial regarding same. Their UN-refined Salt is treacherous like quick-sand.

This being said, each of those three also contains the other two, potentially at the very least.
 

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I don't think making ricotta cheese, and then taking the leftover whey and working with it is an alchemical secret by any means - it is an interesting experiment, and I think has the potential to be "alchemical" depending on the operator. I went through most of the steps of that process that Kibric posted to see what was going on - it did not resonate with me. Still though - learned to make ricotta, and started thinking differently about milk in general.

There are secrets men keep or try to force others to keep for various reasons, often not pure. I've had people "reveal" to me deep secrets in private messages which I did not ask for, trying to bind me to to promise never to reveal them, even though you can find this same information in a simple google search. These types of people have an agenda - best to stay away from them. At the same time, you will find most people will reveal to your their deepest secrets without knowing. It oozes out, and their attempt at not saying something they wish to hide often ends up being expressed in the spaces between their words. Read up on King Midas and the reeds of Pan!

The only "secrets" that are naturally kept, I think, occur because of the nature of knowledge / language / consciousness. The secret wraps itself in these things to express itself, and simultaneously hides its true nature, with that expressing being an outer cloak or shell. It's more correct in my mind to say that our attempts at understanding the nature of this "secret" naturally creates a lie, because we can only imperfectly represent it. That label we give, "secret" is itself not entirely correct either.

The spirit seeks expression in matter, and interacts with matter, and takes on the forms of matter, and as it does this it envelops itself with two other things - a soul and a body. Neither the soul nor the body are a correct representation of the spirit, but what can be said of the spirit as it is, devoid of its soul and body? All the things that are said of it are contradictory, fantastical, and not at all aligned with the understanding of how things work from the point of view of a language that has developed in relation to explaining the phenomena of the soul and the body. You can't really "reveal" this either - I mean you can try, to the best of your ability, but many others will not even notice you did so. You can shout it from the rooftops and no one hears.

On the nature of mental illnesses in general much can be said. It takes a wide variety of forms. There's been people on this forum that have had mental breaks due to drugs / alcohol usage, and even by being led on by the hallucinations of the AI chatbots they interact with.

So much of what is common knowledge nowadays, especially surrounding certain materials, was historically kept as a secret. Many times, most times actually, it was protectionism measures to ensure "competition" could not also have it. That's the problem - that mentality, which brings up that word "competition". It's that old dog once again, the Ego, seeking to limit, and to control.

Now, if you are involved in a conversation or interaction with yourself, a higher self, or some construct or understanding that involves these things, and there are secrets involved, which, for whatever reason, have bound you to limitations of what you can and cannot reveal, then by all means, follow that path, otherwise you get to face the consequences of not following that path. Like so many other things, we create these realities ourselves.
 

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If I ever make/find "The Stone" or "Elixir"? I'm sharing it. I honestly wish everyone were more open and loved eachother completely with no fear, covetousness or greed. Maybe some day?

Matthew 10:8

8 Heal those who are sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, expel demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

Luke 12:22-34 TLV

22 Then Yeshua said to His disciples, “So I say to you, do not worry about life, what you will eat; nor about the body, what you will wear.
23 For life is more than food and the body more than clothing.
24 Consider the ravens. They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn, yet God feeds them. How much more valuable you are than birds!

25 “And which of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
26 So if you cannot do even something very little, why do you worry about other things?
27 Consider the lilies, how they grow. They neither toil nor spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his glory was clothed like one of these.
28 But if God so clothes the grass in the field—which is here today and thrown into the furnace tomorrow—then how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?

29 “So do not seek what you will eat and what you will drink, and do not keep worrying.
30 For all the nations of the world strive after these things. But your Father knows that you need these things.
31 Instead, seek His kingdom, and these things shall be added to you.
32 Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father chose to give you the kingdom.

33 “Sell your possessions and do tzedakah. Make money pouches for yourselves that do not get old—a treasure in the heavens that never runs out, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.
34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
 
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Pilgrim

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If I ever make/find "The Stone" or "Elixir"? I'm sharing it. I honestly wish everyone were more open and loved eachother completely with no fear, covetousness or greed. Maybe some day?

I share this sentiment but with the restraint that if the Stone is ultra powerful and could be used for great evil then I would simply use it myself to heal as many others as I could, probably without them knowing about it.


Matthew 10:8 LEX

8 Heal those who are sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, expel demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

Luke 12:22-34 TLV

22 Then Yeshua said to His disciples, “So I say to you, do not worry about life, what you will eat; nor about the body, what you will wear.
23 For life is more than food and the body more than clothing.
24 Consider the ravens. They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn, yet God feeds them. How much more valuable you are than birds!

25 “And which of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
26 So if you cannot do even something very little, why do you worry about other things?
27 Consider the lilies, how they grow. They neither toil nor spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his glory was clothed like one of these.
28 But if God so clothes the grass in the field—which is here today and thrown into the furnace tomorrow—then how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?

29 “So do not seek what you will eat and what you will drink, and do not keep worrying.
30 For all the nations of the world strive after these things. But your Father knows that you need these things.
31 Instead, seek His kingdom, and these things shall be added to you.
32 Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father chose to give you the kingdom.

33 “Sell your possessions and do tzedakah. Make money pouches for yourselves that do not get old—a treasure in the heavens that never runs out, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.
34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

The problem with these Bible quotes is that the words were specifically for Jesus's disciples, not for the likes of you and I. I find that sad and disappointing given how the figure of Jesus is presented by the church, but the Bible is clear. For example:

Mark 4:10

"And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

In short, lovely secrets for Jesus and his disciples, but nowt for the hoi polloi, the great unwashed, the unworthy etc etc.

It's really sad and is why I have rejected the defacto presentation of Christianity by the Church. It just does not hang together correctly, it makes no sense at all and ignores all the allegorical terminology used in the Bible text. There is a truth out there, but what the Church are peddling, is absolutely not it imho.

The Bible must be read and appraised in a very specific way imho, and that way is not literally imho and one must question it's construction by men and the fact that much material was rejected, deliberately left out imho in order to create a story that would become the foundation for a controlling ideology. My heart, spirit and soul tell me that the truth lies elsewhere.
 

Pilgrim

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Something else which has always sat badly with me and made no sense whatsoever is this whole idea of creating tons of alchemy works, docs and treatises, all talking cryptically and allegorically and none of them giving away the real secrets and all of that pitched against this notion that only certain people are ever "selected" or "deemed worthy" of being told the totality of the processes.

That's just nuts if you think about it.

If you identify someone who is deemed worthy of the secrets of alchemy and creation of the Stone, then surely you just take them under your wing and teach them. There's no need for all these cryptic works. So it begs the question what are all these works actually for?

I can only come up with one answer which is that they are all a deliberate diversion to keep people distracted and going in the wrong direction so that the hoi polloi don't accidentally find the secrets. Equally, those in power would surely never allow an actual Alchemy Forum to exist at all if they didn't want the hoi polloi to become alchemists and discover the secrets. Do they allow bomb making forums or "how to enrich uranium" forums or anything similar? Nope not to my knowledge. Some things just don't add up for me, as always !
 

Seraphim

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???

Matthew 28:16-20 LEB

16 So the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated for them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted.
18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the age.”
 

Pilgrim

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???

Matthew 28:16-20 LEB

16 So the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated for them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted.
18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the age.”

Wouldn't it have been great if the text had instead said this:

16 So the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated for them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted.
18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore, go and teach all men the mysteries of the Kingdom that they may rid themselves of all disease and ailments and enjoy,
20 long life and happiness, wanting nothing, lacking nothing.”
 

Lux Natura

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19 Therefore, go and teach all men the mysteries of the Kingdom that they may rid themselves of all disease and ailments and enjoy,
20 long life and happiness, wanting nothing, lacking nothing.”

This is how I imagine it may go:

21 And the disciples went and taught, but the men were unable to understand.
22 "Make it simpler for us" they cried. So basic even a child can understand! Thus the disciples made it simple.
23 The most learned of the simple men, and the one who fancied himself the wisest, spoke up and said:
23 "This is too simplistic for my understanding. Surely the kingdom of heaven is not just a childish parable!"
24 Thus the disciples realized, that no good deed goes unpunished, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
25 The disciples handed out Chinese finger traps. At least it would keep the people entertained,
26 And perhaps some would realize the problems they are seeking to solve are of their own making.
 

Pilgrim

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This is how I imagine it may go:

21 And the disciples went and taught, but the men were unable to understand.
22 "Make it simpler for us" they cried.

The disciples were all simple men. Fishermen, tax collectors etc. If Jesus could teach them, he could teach anyone. He chose not to.
It was a matter of ideology, "my gang", not one of technical complexity.
 

Lux Natura

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It's not a mystery or a conspiracy - those who require teaching the most are usually the ones incapable of receiving it.
 

Pilgrim

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It's not a mystery or a conspiracy - those who require teaching the most are usually the ones incapable of receiving it.

It's simply a set of information that has been suppressed and is not made widely available to the public. It is jealously guarded by people who most likely are the least worthy to have it. Why should anyone be "punished" for revealing secrets of alchemy? What gives any human the right to punish another human esp when they are simply helping others? Should we have sympathy for those humans who suppressed the works of Tesla in order to prevent us all having free energy? The truth will out, eventually. It can not be stopped.