. The Celestial Agriculture

[Arrakis]

Hi
Undoubtingly this post go straight to the key of alchemy, but what is this 1st cotton/hair like salt that he describes? Is it a known matter? Does it grow by it's own in nature or it has to be made artificially by the artist? Does it obtain it isolated or is it a "product" of the union of the two other salts? Then, assuming that the 2nd salt is nitter, is the 3rd salt potassium carbonate?

i would say this is one of my favorite post by roger.

Regards,
Arrakis

 

[Pleroma]

Hi
Undoubtingly this post go straight to the key of alchemy, but what is this 1st cotton/hair like salt that he describes? Is it a known matter? Does it grow by it's own in nature or it has to be made artificially by the artist? Does it obtain it isolated or is it a "product" of the union of the two other salts? Then, assuming that the 2nd salt is nitter, is the 3rd salt potassium carbonate?



Regards,
Arrakis

the cotton hair like salt is the mercury of the philosophers.
you have to make it or attract it like roger said by union of the other two.

 

[Arrakis]

the cotton hair like salt is the mercury of the philosophers.
you have to make it or attract it like roger said by union of the other two.

Fine but, what salts are the other two? The explanations of Roger are a bit confusing as he mixes up many things.

 

[solomon levi]

Fine but, what salts are the other two? The explanations of Roger are a bit confusing as he mixes up many things.

I'm sorry. I've been so busy.
The answer is here:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1725-Cyliani

If you take that literally, I suppose it suggests nitre and carbonate (calcium carbonate according to Roger).
You may want to look into "nitre fixed by charcoal" which Glauber called an alkahest.
There's a thread with that title here in the practical section.

 

[Pleroma]

Fine but, what salts are the other two? The explanations of Roger are a bit confusing as he mixes up many things.

Sal ammoniac and nitre.
sun and moon,
It says it in this thread.

The Hand of the Philosophers ~Johan Isaac HOLLANDUS

Now then, I will teach my child and describe the secret, hidden matter of the wise philosophers and masters of the true Art Alchemia. Nobody can use it unless he take the oath and swear not to divulge the Art and secrets and hidden signs of the sages, except he finds that it would be a good placement. In that case, he should also request the oath that that man should not use the Art except for the salvation of his soul. Only then can he be given the secret signs of the philosophers or sages, with their hidden signs and meanings.

1. The Thumb



First look at the thumb on which stands the crown next to the moon, one quarter old. By this is meant saltpetre. For just as the thumb vigorously finishes off the hand, saltpeter does in the Art Alchemia, for he is the King and Lord of all salts. He is the mill through which everything must be ground. His nature is elsewhere sufficiently described.

2. Index



The second sign and secret of the philosophers is the Star with six points, standing above the foremost finger next to the thumb. It is compared to Roman Vitriolo, because no work that is to be perfect can be completed without vitriol; for it is the greatest and strongest salt after saltpeter. Its nature is described.

3. The Middle Finger



The third sign of the philosopher’s Hand is the Sun, standing above the third finger. By it, Sal Ammoniacum is designated, for apart from saltpeter and vitriol, no thing more powerful is found than *. That is why it is the third secret.

 

[solomon levi]

Sal ammoniac and nitre.
sun and moon,
It says it in this thread.

I like that answer too.

Sun and moon are simply polarities.
The polarity is not particular but generic.
Lots of things can be sun and moon.
This is why alchemists use sun and moon, male and female,
eagle and serpent, etc instead of saying mineral names or salts or whatever
particulars.
Particulars are not everywhere. Polarities are.

 

[Arrakis]

Thanks Solomon and Plemora, that does help alot. My main focusing in alchemy is about philosophical salts, philosophical magnets and alkahests, which are all closelly related and the key of all alchemical paths.
My conclusion, after years of reading and experimenting is that there are different salts, different magnets and different alkahests, depending on each path or even each particular.
However, I believe that there's one in particular which is more "powerful" than the rest and it's "production" depends alot on the skills of the "producer". As I said I only believe it, since I have not been able to make such magnet-alkahest. I'm still missing some details, although I can affirm that Niter is nearly always there, in every case. It is a question of research but also a question of logic, since it's natural to think that the Niter in the air must have some special link with the Niter in the earth.
The other salts to be mixed up with it are, either sal ammoniac, or carbonates. These carbonates can be potassium carbonate (or Tartar, or KOH, which is essentially the same) or calcium carbonate.
I guess that Glauber regarded his salt as such "nitre fixed by charcoal". He and Bernus regarded Glauber's salt (sodium sulfate) as the true alkahest when it had fixed the air Nitre within it. This is the only case in wich "earth nitre" is not included into the equation.
Now, which of these is the best combination to form the best magnet-alkahest? Frankly I don't know, but I can say by experience that oak ash (otherwise potassium carbonate) is the most hygroscopic among these matters, what makes it more interesting to attract the moist in the air and therefore the SM carried in it. Some modern adepts, such as Oruna, has even used it as "materia prima".
Indeed, every such has to be obtained naturally, but the Artist has to make the first step in order to force and even guide nature to produce the other steps, and that demands to know the precise matters and actions to be made.
Then there's the question of the natural fires, so important in this procedia, first is the "lunar fire" and later is the "solar fire". The when and the how has to be used during the Opus Magna is part of that artist's skill.
More suggestions will be grateful.
Arrakis

 

[Arrakis]

I forgot to add Common Salt among the other possible salts to be combined, sorry!

 

[Pleroma]

Thanks Solomon and Plemora, that does help alot. My main focusing in alchemy is about philosophical salts, philosophical magnets and alkahests, which are all closelly related and the key of all alchemical paths.
My conclusion, after years of reading and experimenting is that there are different salts, different magnets and different alkahests, depending on each path or even each particular.
However, I believe that there's one in particular which is more "powerful" than the rest and it's "production" depends alot on the skills of the "producer". As I said I only believe it, since I have not been able to make such magnet-alkahest. I'm still missing some details, although I can affirm that Niter is nearly always there, in every case. It is a question of research but also a question of logic, since it's natural to think that the Niter in the air must have some special link with the Niter in the earth.
The other salts to be mixed up with it are, either sal ammoniac, or carbonates. These carbonates can be potassium carbonate (or Tartar, or KOH, which is essentially the same) or calcium carbonate.
I guess that Glauber regarded his salt as such "nitre fixed by charcoal". He and Bernus regarded Glauber's salt (sodium sulfate) as the true alkahest when it had fixed the air Nitre within it. This is the only case in wich "earth nitre" is not included into the equation.
Now, which of these is the best combination to form the best magnet-alkahest? Frankly I don't know, but I can say by experience that oak ash (otherwise potassium carbonate) is the most hygroscopic among these matters, what makes it more interesting to attract the moist in the air and therefore the SM carried in it. Some modern adepts, such as Oruna, has even used it as "materia prima".
Indeed, every such has to be obtained naturally, but the Artist has to make the first step in order to force and even guide nature to produce the other steps, and that demands to know the precise matters and actions to be made.
Then there's the question of the natural fires, so important in this procedia, first is the "lunar fire" and later is the "solar fire". The when and the how has to be used during the Opus Magna is part of that artist's skill.
More suggestions will be grateful.
Arrakis

Why dont you just keep reading this thread and the book of abraham the jew..

 

[Arrakis]

There are masses of informartion to read, not just in this thread, but in many others and of course from the many books and texts. I wish I could handle to read it all in my spare time. Yet what I haven't been able to get a clear conclusions from what I've read so far, since there are many things mixed up that doesn't match with what I had in mind till now. What does the book of abraham say about this subject?

 

[Pleroma]

There are masses of informartion to read, not just in this thread, but in many others and of course from the many books and texts. I wish I could handle to read it all in my spare time. Yet what I haven't been able to get a clear conclusions from what I've read so far, since there are many things mixed up that doesn't match with what I had in mind till now. What does the book of abraham say about this subject?

The book of Abraham the Jew shows how spiritus mundi is made using celestial agriculture and other methods, and how to make the Philosophers Stone. Same as this thread which explains it really clearly.

 

[Arrakis]

The book of Abraham the Jew shows how spiritus mundi is made using celestial agriculture and other methods, and how to make the Philosophers Stone. Same as this thread which explains it really clearly.

Thanks, I shall read it carefully. However, I don't think S.M. can be made, but catched from nature.

 

[alfr]

Hi every body
i think about this thread is very interestimg alaso this as maybe universal magnet with rays solar etc (with oil of sulfur for the bell ) glauber say this as we can read
in this capther of the work of Glauber thi wordk is in rams dvd collection all opinion about it is welcome

for this manet with oil of sulfur for the bell : see also the old thread http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1529-OIL-OF-SULPHUR/page2

my best reagards alfr

This is instructions in the section of the book of Glauber

in which Galuber writes about the Magnet from the Air may be extracted an Universal Medicine.

Chapter XVI.
Proceed in your Work thus.

Prepare 3 or 4 Pound of Oil of Sulphur per Campane, which rectifie, that it may become very fiery: Then provide a large Trough like a Chest or Box, which you may cover with linnen Cloath so, as through it no Dust, but the Air only may penetrate. In this Chest set your rectified Oil of Sulphur, poured into divers small Pans or Dishes so as they be not above half full. Leave these there three or four Days, or so long Day and Night expose them to the Air, as until the Oil of Sulphur hath drawn to it self so much Water, as it self was, and filled the Dishes. This being done, empty out all the Dishes into one Glass Body, and in BALNEO with gentle heat abstract thence all the humidity. The Oil remaining in the Bottom again expose to the Air in those Dishes, as before, so long as until they be filled. That water again abstract thence, and proceed in extracting so long, as until you have got water enough. This water passeth through all Tinctures; but I have not as yet compleated this Work.
Note: All the best of that, which this Magnet draws from the Air, remains with the Magnet it self or Oil of Sulphur, as its true MATRIX, in which it is nourished and ripened; as the most Ancient HERMES, or the Father of all Philosophers, in his Smar¬agdine Table, hath described in these words. Here the Soul of the World speaks. My Father is SOL; my Mother is LUNA; the Wind or Air secretly bears me in its Belly: the Earth conceived and brought me forth, and is my Nurse, & etc. The Spirit of the World can bring forth no Fruits, unless it be first seminated in a fit MATRIX; because nothing in the World can be progenited without a Womb. This our Magnet is of all Magnets most gratefull to the Soul of the World, and a most natural Friend to the Spirit of the World.
Much might be spoken touching this, but is not necessary to thrust pulse ready chewed into a sluggish Crows mouth, let him fly out and seek for himself. Here, in this Work are verified those sayings of Philosophers: Nature rejoyceth in Nature, Nature overcomes Nature, Nature retains Nature. Here it is proper also to observe, what HERMES, at the end of his Table saith; viz. My power is not intire, or perfect, before I am turned into Earth. But how this is to be done, I leave to the consideration of every Man. For the unworthiness of the present wicked World forbids me to discourse more amply thereof. To all men, whom GOD shall favour, these will be clear enough. Yet elsewhere touching this matter (if GOD will) ere long shall be taught.

 

[Andro]

I submit to the readers the possibility that one of the main concepts around the 'Celestial Agriculture' (& related) is the artful rendering of the 'Mother of Metals', 'Our Magnet', etc...

Or the 'Central Salt', 'Salt of Metals', and many other names IT is known by.

Or 'The Perfect Alkali' ...

There many methods but few principles.

The best books are quite explicit about the Principles.

If one understands the Principles, one would with greater ease understand the various 'Methods', such as Dew & Sea Salt, Urine, Limestone, Marcasites, etc...

Golden Chain, Von Welling, etc, can be especially helpful.
_______________________________

Mod Note:

I am also making this thread a 'Sticky', because I see it as one of the more relevant/revealing ones here.

Even though the OP is no longer with us, this doesn't affect the value of the information shared by him and all others who contributed to this thread.

 

[Andro]

Or 'The Perfect Alkali'

By this, I am referring to the double sulfurous Alkali/BASE, the product of the 'Mysterious Conjunction' between Venus & Mars, as it is very well described in 'The Golden Chain', including its appearance.

Also known as the Salt containing the 2 (Earthly) Central Fires (The Red and the White), the Androgynous Matter, etc...

It is the Salt/Body companion of the Universal Spirit/Volatile, for which it has the greatest affinity.

There are quite a few ways to obtain this salt, from the most 'purist' to the most 'chymical', but knowing it and its preparation/properties, will shed light on many so-called 'recipes'.

 

[Andro]

I can affirm that Niter is nearly always there, in every case/

Yes.
___________________________________

And now I'll play with words a little, just for fun:

Niter -> Night Air -> Knight Air -> Knight = Mars -> Mars of the Air

-------------------------------------------------------

 

[Salazius]

It works very well in english.

About the Central Salt :

Source : Eleazar Abraham - "R. Abrahami Eleazaris uraltes chymisches Werk, welches ehedessen von dem Autore theils in lateinischer und arabischer".

(1760) .pdf 122.0 MB

Vous trouverez le livre ici (via esoshare sur facebook)/You'll find the book here :

https://mega.co.nz/#!I5ZFFTSB!ZG45LQmEgJGuGyp_acHaLPVmiF9sXA9NamzV9fbfwi8

From Clavis Artis Zoroastri :

 

[Andro]

It works very well in english.

Well, I said it is for fun

Still, for example, N.T.R. ('Neter') is also an old Hebrew Root.

I checked, and interestingly enough, it is nowadays used as the Hebrew Root for the element Sodium (Natran).

However, to give a more holistic understanding of what I've been implying above, I think the following analisys of the OP is extremely pertinent, with a strong Voice of Reason behind it:

Spiritus Mundi is not niter. Niter is niter. Spiritus Mundi is not a chemical. It is the universal spirit. [...]
We use philosophy to attract it, yes it is found in nature attached to niter, because niter is earth's natural fertilizer.
The philosophers stumbled upon the secrets of nature by following her and amplifying her forces, this is why I began this thread with an Essay on Agriculture.
Too much niter on plants will burn them, but too much Spiritus Mundi on plants has no ill effect, it will make them sprout and grow to full grown and produce fruit in a manner of minutes.
I hope this goes far enough to exposition the difference.

The process outlined here is to use niter to catch Spiritus Mundi and separate, transfer and fix it onto another medium... In the end, the stone is solely Spiritus Mundi.
__________________________________________

On another note we have to look more deeply into the three salts enigma.

So to rehash, we get:

1. A cotton/hair like salt that forms above the other two. This salt is of a middle nature, neither completely volatile nor completely fixed.
This is the philosophic mercury, this is the target salt, the one we use for the alchemy, it does not come ready to pour out of a box/bag, we cannot purchase some.

2. A volatile salt of niter like crystallization/ formation. The sources say to take them to the fire (Vulcan) and they will tell us there names, and surely this one is niter - so niter must have been present from the beginning in some form.

3. A fixed alkaline salt, that must have also been present from the beginning.

For the 3 salts, please see Cyliani, Recreations, ICH...

For Niter & Co, please see Golden Chain, Von Welling, etc...

What one 'lineage' hides, the other reveals, and vise-versa...
---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Salazius]

Reminder : Niter Vs Alkali was the two mains salts involved in Alchemy.

Not acids or bases. Only salts. Whatever the "Ph".

A Niter, is a volatile(ized) salt. An Alkali, is a fix(ed) one.

Thus, we can have a common Niter, volatile, and a philosophical one, volatilized.

The Stone is for example a Philosophical Alkali.

We can read also sometime "kali" for a fix salt. Then the Phi version would then be "Al.Kali". The same principle could be applied to Niter/Al.niter.

--------------

NTR : Neteru is an Egyptian God/dess, it means GOD.

There is also the Godess Het-Her (Aether). And Heru (Horus); Het-Her(u) or Het-Horus.

Neteru/Net-Heru another pronunciation of "God". Horus is the Sun God, or equivalent to "christ"/Solar God. Son of Isis and Osiris (Sun and Moon).

God in ancient Egyptian was ntr or neter or netjer or netcher .According to some people this hieroglyph can be read as naturu.

The hieroglyph for god consists of two symbols- a flag with a long pole and seated god.The flag reads neter and it means divine, nature,the divine nature of things.The second symbol of the seated god is a determinitive,meaning that it is not read but it determines what the flagpole is about.So the two signs put together mean god (neter).

The long-poled flag was usually placed beside shrines along roads in ancient Egypt ,hence its meaning as 'divine'.

Source : http://en.glossesweb.com/2012/10/neter-god-king-in-egyptian-hieroglyphics.html

A flag is related to element air and the pole can be seen as the axis mundi linking the above and the below. Volatile and fixe.

Just thoughts ...

 

[Andro]

Just thoughts ...

Good thoughts!

I didn't know N.T.R. is related with G.O.D.

Now, a graphic abbreviation from 'The Golden Chain':

We have:

Where

Leads to:

Matters, methods & applications may vary.

This has all been to concentrate/summarize the 'chymical' (not 'chemical') rendering of Our Earth.

For a 'purist' approach (where SM 'makes' its own Earth before 'descending' upon it), see the Spiritus Mundi thread.
___________________________________

PS: I'm posting on this topic because I'm currently in the process of setting up a new series of experiments, continuing where I left off a few years ago in this line of research, and also because my 'purist' experiments are on hold for time being, while my colleagues and I are designing various new 'contraptions' to increase yield and efficiency, after realizing a few past errors...

 

[Salazius]

Here is the complete Golden Chain, chain that is the ladder to the Above and the below.

 

[Arrakis]

Yes.
___________________________________

And now I'll play with words a little, just for fun:

Niter -> Night Air -> Knight Air -> Knight = Mars -> Mars of the Air

-------------------------------------------------------

Hello Androgynus and Salazius,
The salt of the air is basically Mercury/Venus/Silver/Passive but it's essentially hermafrodite, as it is endowed with a Sulphur/Mars/Gold/Life/Male character, due to it's marriage with the S.M. in the air.
Nice engravings Salazius!
Arrakis

 

[Salazius]

Thank you Arrakis.

I wouldn't say exactly "Sulphur/Mars/Gold/Life/Male" but : Mercury/Niter/Mars/Mars/life (~force).

 

[Hortplantwizard]

was wondering about the vacuum and light, glass slows it down and photons are known to occur in a vacuum, this is from 2011...Also vibration and condensation inside of a vacuum as in chanting, as a vacuum represents the female aspect or the bottom of the toroid where it goes back into the center to come out the top as male the center being a hydrogenous god??? is this a correct view???

Scientists create light from vacuum

November 17, 2011

In the Chalmers scientists’ experiments, virtual photons bounce off a “mirror” that vibrates at a speed that is almost as high as the speed of light. The round mirror in the picture is a symbol, and under that is the quantum electronic …more

(PhysOrg.com) -- Scientists at Chalmers University of Technology have succeeded in creating light from vacuum – observing an effect first predicted over 40 years ago. The results will be published tomorrow (Wednesday) in the journal Nature. In an innovative experiment, the scientists have managed to capture some of the photons that are constantly appearing and disappearing in the vacuum.

The experiment is based on one of the most counter-intuitive, yet, one of the most important principles in quantum mechanics: that vacuum is by no means empty nothingness. In fact, the vacuum is full of various particles that are continuously fluctuating in and out of existence. They appear, exist for a brief moment and then disappear again. Since their existence is so fleeting, they are usually referred to as virtual particles.

Chalmers scientist, Christopher Wilson and his co-workers have succeeded in getting photons to leave their virtual state and become real photons, i.e. measurable light. The physicist Moore predicted way back in 1970 that this should happen if the virtual photons are allowed to bounce off a mirror that is moving at a speed that is almost as high as the speed of light. The phenomenon, known as the dynamical Casimir effect, has now been observed for the first time in a brilliant experiment conducted by the Chalmers scientists.

“Since it’s not possible to get a mirror to move fast enough, we’ve developed another method for achieving the same effect,” explains Per Delsing, Professor of Experimental Physics at Chalmers. “Instead of varying the physical distance to a mirror, we've varied the electrical distance to an electrical short circuit that acts as a mirror for microwaves.

The “mirror” consists of a quantum electronic component referred to as a SQUID (Superconducting quantum interference device), which is extremely sensitive to magnetic fields. By changing the direction of the magnetic field several billions of times a second the scientists were able to make the “mirror” vibrate at a speed of up to 25 percent of the speed of light.

“The result was that photons appeared in pairs from the vacuum, which we were able to measure in the form of microwave radiation,” says Per Delsing. “We were also able to establish that the radiation had precisely the same properties that quantum theory says it should have when photons appear in pairs in this way.”

What happens during the experiment is that the “mirror” transfers some of its kinetic energy to virtual photons, which helps them to materialize. According to quantum mechanics, there are many different types of virtual particles in vacuum, as mentioned earlier. Göran Johansson, Associate Professor of Theoretical Physics, explains that the reason why photons appear in the experiment is that they lack mass.

“Relatively little energy is therefore required in order to excite them out of their virtual state. In principle, one could also create other particles from vacuum, such as electrons or protons, but that would require a lot more energy.”

The scientists find the photons that appear in pairs in the experiment interesting to study in closer detail. They can perhaps be of use in the research field of quantum information, which includes the development of quantum computers.

However, the main value of the experiment is that it increases our understanding of basic physical concepts, such as vacuum fluctuations – the constant appearance and disappearance of virtual particles in vacuum. It is believed that vacuum fluctuations may have a connection with “dark energy” which drives the accelerated expansion of the universe. The discovery of this acceleration was recognized this year with the awarding of the Nobel Prize in Physics.

Explore further: Researchers create light from 'almost nothing'

More information: "Observation of the dynamical Casimir effect in a superconducting circuit" C. M. Wilson, G. Johansson, A. Pourkabirian, M. Simoen, J. R. Johansson, T. Duty, F. Nori, & P. Delsing, Nature 479, 376–379 (17 November 2011), doi:10.1038/nature10561

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2011-11-scient...acuum.html#jCp

 

[Hortplantwizard]

Also vibration and condensation inside of a vacuum as in chanting, as a vacuum represents the female aspect or the bottom of the toroid where it goes back into the center to come out the top as male the center being a hydrogenous god??? is this a correct view???

Funny how the photons come in pairs, I meant to add, condensing SM in a vacuum flask with ultra sound or some kind of sound to condense it, lightning creates a vacuum too, so collecting rain from a rain storm may give a small amount as well??? or it being attracted to a salt such as saltpeter, if I am understanding correctly, you could, collect the photon salt and the SM water and under gentle heat, create a stone, or at least the beginning of one, if you add the gold first then salt then condense the water and add gentle heat while the glass is still in vacuum, would it condense to be a stone???