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. The Celestial Agriculture

rogerc

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I found this when I wasn't looking for anything in relation to it, and so it seems we discover certain bits of wisdom when we are ready and none the sooner, the subject matter is absolutely what I have been writting about lately concerning limestone as the Bethel stone and its use to attract the spiritus mundi, at first I didn't know what Marl was..... but I had a hunch and a quick google search left my views on the subject vindicated in a triumphant, glorious and synchronistic fashion when I learned that marl was indeed limestone. The proceeding experiments mentioned in the text below I had already designed and contemplated on my own and had begun to undertake, whose design I gleaned from a close study of nature alone, along with a close reading from in between the lines of the most enigmatic of philosophical and biblical texts/no-texts. Alas it lifted my heart to the heights of heaven when I learned that those wise masters who preceding me, had taken the same seldom traveld and little worn simple and poor path to truth that I have attained to.

And to all that now begin to undetake the same path of celestial agriculture and masonry, may the heavens rain down dew and rightousness upon you through the fat of the land. May your hearts be pure and your intentions humble for the universal spirit does not suffer itself to be shown to the wicked and perverse and those who go against nature, for our science is truly a divine one.

This proceding text is from a book which has absolutely nothing to do with alchemy but everything to do with the study of nature and judging from the texts the wisdom from these following pages was no doubt lain out by an adept of our science a certain M. Jeanneret the Elder.

From: Foriegn Essays on Agriculture and The Arts...Issues 1-4

The happy effects of marl, for the purposes of vegetation, should induce every one fond of philosophical researches to enquire into its principles, and every farmer to distingush that which he ought to prefer.
In order to satisfy the reasonable curiosity of the first, and the prudent foresight of the latter I have thought proper to conclude this essay, with some enquiries into the nature and properties of Marle.
With this view, an able artist made under my inspection several experiments, on some grey Marl approaching to the colour of slate, taken from two Marle-pits, near three leagues distant one from the other. They differ, in that one is sine grained, soft to the touch, and being exposed to the air, soon dissolves ; the other is coarser grained, feels rough in handling is harder and with difficulty dissolved
on being exposed to the air, or being laid oft land.

Three China basons were taken, in each of which were put two ounces of Marle grossly pulverized, because it was taken from a large piece of Marle.
On that in the first bason one hundred drops of spirit of nitre were first dropped, and when it began to ferment, cold water was poured on it. The ebullition was strong, the bason was filled with froth', and a great smoke issued from it. In the space of a few minutes the Marle was perfectly dissolved.
In the second bason the same operations were repeated with the spirit of vitriol, all in the same pro-
portions, as in the first bason. The fermentation was nearly the same; but instead of being dissolved, the Marle was considerably increased in bulk.
Lastly, in a third bason, an ounce of distilled vinegar was. poured; the ebullition on the cold water, being added, was the same ; but the Marle instead of being dissolved, became granulated like small shot.
• Two hours afterwards, ninety-five' drop's of spirit of.nitre were again put into the first bason, as much spirit of vitriol into the second, and some distilled vinegar into the third ; a new ebullition ensued, and the same effects were apparent, as from the first; Operation.
In three other basons, exactly the same experiments were made, with the same quantities, and the effects were the same. We may thence conclude that, though these two sorts of Marle appeared different, to the eye, to the touch, and in using them, yet they may have the same effects in promoting vegetation ; with this difference, however, that the effects of the hardest Marle is slower in proportions to the length of time it takes to dissolve.
The four ounces of Marle, which had been impregnated with spirit of nitre, in the two basons, were added together, a lixivium was made from them, which being evaporated by fire, yielded half an ounce of a nitrous salt, which crackled on the coals like nitre; and shot forth needles like it. This effect is no ways surprizing, spirit of nitre being only salt-petre, discharged of its earthly particles ; so that when you add to it any earth whatever, provided it can be dissolved in it, it becomes salt-petre again.
Some experiment was yet to be made on the substance of the Marle. A hard piece, just taken from the pit, was pounded, washed, and a lixivium made from it. The lotions being filtered and inspissated yielded no kind of salt whatever.
The Marle being first dissolved by the air, and then managed in the same manner, yielded a bitumenous salt, but in a small quantity.

RESULT of the several preceding EXPERIMENTS.

I. IT was evident, that Marle will not amalgamate, or mix either with spirit of vitriol or distilled vinegar, which are both strong acids; but on the contrary, they yielded a Magma, or a Coagulation. The Marl perfectly dissolved with spirit of nitre; whence it may be concluded, that, though it may not contain in itself any salt, it will, nevertheless, imbibe and attract the universal spirit or nitre, so conducive to the fertilization of land.

II. That Marle which will soonest and best dissolve with spirit of nitre is to be prefered, as it will attract more powerfully the universal spirit, dispersed in ever part of the atmosphere.

III. Marle appears to be only a simple matrix, which like a spunge imbibes the nitre, and salts dispersed in the air; since when it was first taken from the pit it yielded no salt; yet that which was taken from the same pit, and dissolved in the air, yielded a small quantity of a bitumenous salt.

IV. If Marle, even in the quality of a simple matrix, is well adapted to attract the nitre in the air, its effect on
vegetation will be lasting, as it may be reiteratedly impregnated. This is made evident, by the earth from which the salt-petre makers have extracted the salt-petre. Being exposed for a certain number of years to the air, and to the north easterly and north winds, and being sheltered by walls from the south, it imbibes salt-petre a-new, which is again by the former operations extracted.

V. From the preceding observations it should seem we might conclude, that Marle would be of no use on light gravelly lands, when turned in by the plough; because, not being exposed to the open air, at cannot attract the nitre or universal spirit, and be impregnated with it. Experience, however, proves the good effects resulting from this practice, which should be attributed to the porous nature of the Marle; it imbibes the water which penetrates the surface of the soil, and preserves it to refresh the roots of the plants. Without this help, the fructifying water would either have sunk deeper, or have been evaporated by the first heats.

VI. Marl has an effect so visible, so speedy, and even so lasting in promoting vegetation, that it is with some difficulty we can persuade ourselves it has no other quality but that of attracting to itself the universal spirit; may we not presume that it contains salts or sulphur, which art has not yet been able to discover. Nature seems to cast a veil before our eyes, we see the effects, but the causes are hid from us.
Many of the constituent parts of minerals and metals escape our researches ; they are exhaled and dispersed by the sire of the laboratories, and, mixing salts and spirits with them, produces nearly the same effects, by means of fermentation ; they are another species of fire.

Let us then be content to know what experience teaches us. Speculations on the nature of Marle are the less necessary, because farmers seldom have it in their power to choose. Every one is obliged to make use of that which is nearest to him; as, to bring this manure from any considerable distance, would greatly encrease the expence of marling the land, because the price of carriage would be in proportion increased.


If we study the nature of limestone closely and reflect thoughtfully upon it then we will understand why it attracts the universal spirit to itself so avidly, for as just as in you and in your heart and mind, if it be emptied, and if you be very thirsty and wanting in your nature you will sooner be given water of the heavens to drink than he who is already full up. Therefore empty your hearts so that they may be filled up again with rightousness!

"The Angels or Intelligences are attracted by an horrible emptiness and attend the Astrolasme for ever"
 
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Ghislain

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The original text.

Seems interesting and worth experimenting with if time permits.

RogerC (or Leo?) do you think the Marle should be slaked?

From the text you included from John Dee, what is "Astrolasme"?

Thanks

Ghislain
 
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rogerc

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RogerC (or Leo?) do you think the Marle should be slaked?

Initially, yes to rid of the raw water it absorbed underground so that it can absorb something different above ground. This subtle spirit should gradually by and by be fixed as it is insipitated, watering with distilled urine or dew(niterous baths) at night and by a drying action will set this subtle spirit into the alkali from which it will be drawn in the from of a salt, we must observe nature here, this spirit is created in the darkness and flees from the action of sunlight unless it is fixed, we must therefore work in the dark minding the seasons and the direction from which the spiritus mundi universalam blows without intermission, we must also be on guard against all that is detrimental to this subtle spirit in its state of volatility that is because it is more or less "unestablished".
From the text you included from John Dee, what is "Astrolasme"?

It is the "thin world'" in between this realm and the astral from which everything is enlivened and fructified.
 

Ghislain

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It is the "thin world'" in between this realm and the astral from which everything is enlivened and fructified.

Is this the same as the Astral Plane?

Is slaked marle/lime a magnet for Spitius Mundi?

Also when you say, " insipitated", do you mean, "inspissated"?

This is not nit-picking; just asking in case something is being missed.

Have you carried out this experiment, collected and fixed this subtle spirit?

Is it collected by deliquescing the slaked marle and should it be separated
from the latter before trying to fix it, and if so how does one perform this separation?

Is this material similar to that acquired when collecting the dew on a bedsheet from the grass?

This subtle spirit should gradually by and by be fixed as it is insipitated, watering with distilled urine
or dew(niterous baths) at night and by a drying action will set this subtle spirit into the alkali from which it
will be drawn in the from of a salt

There are two main distillates of urine...one is strong alkali and the other water...with which does one water
the inspissating subtle spirit?

The Marle being first dissolved by the air, and then managed in the same manner, yielded a bitumenous salt, but in a small quantity.

I wonder if this is what I came across:

The volatile liquid was once again distilled off...should I call it ammonia?..and the faeces calcined
as before expecting an even whiter salt to be left than previously, however the reamining salt was a
sort of tan and smelled of, what I can only describe as, bitumen.


Sorry for all the questions...one day I may have some answers ;)

Ghislain
 
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rogerc

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Is this the same as the Astral Plane?
For our purposes here it isn't really necessary to make a distinction between the two, but it is an in between world, one that keeps them separate and safe from each other ...study Paracelsus he goes into detail about these realms and the entities that inhabit them and the possiblity of interaction with them if we become aware of each other, when we take this type of hermetic doctrine far enough we can use its application to speed up certain processes in nature.
Is slaked marle/lime a magnet for Spitius Mundi?
"it has no other quality but that of attracting to itself the universal spirit"
Also when you say, " insipitated", do you mean, "inspissated"?
Yes
Have you carried out this experiment, collected and fixed this subtle spirit?
Yes
Is it collected by deliquescing the slaked marle and should it be separated
from the latter before trying to fix it, and if so how does one perform this separation?
About this I will not go into great detail here....study the thread I wrote : The Dry Water of Opus Magnum Ex Virgina Terra, there are enough processes there.... just substitute marl for clay,.... also the letter I gave from A.L. Gerbant that uses gypsum, and a path in the Arcana Divina that uses this extracted spirit to open the "vile" mineral in seminal metallic-nature from the mine that contains an abundance of spiritus mundi to make the magnet of the wise but about this particular method we can do without this minera, only if our extracted salt is carried through enough regenerations (eagles) till it alone can dissolve gold like ice in warm water.
Is this material similar to that acquired when collecting the dew on a bedsheet from the grass?
The process of collecting dew and the use of deliquescing salts in our art is really of no use if we want a spirit powerful enough to work with, we are not collecting atmosphereic moisture, in fact we purposely calcine our marl very strongly to rid ourselves of any moisture it may have absorbed after it had been put to absorb the astral spirit before we proceded to extract "our salt peter"...it this case astral spirit or spiritus mundi is a different kind of "dew" a spiritual one or a divine one and after sundry examinations a righteous one. If you are refering to the extraction of the salt, however, well we only need a liquid to help with the extraction of course, so it would be more "philosophical" to use night-time dew water for this extraction just as we can use distilled urine...either of which are more "philosophical" than using tap water or any other kind of solvent and well, normal dew just as normal salt-peter do contain but a tiny fraction of universal spirit because it is how nature works so it helps to stick with the like, because like atttracts like. However through art we magnify the more favorable influences and shield from the unfavorable ones to speed up the work and produce the quantites or magnitudes of these sublte spirits that nature cannot perform on her own because of the grosser elements impeding. Such as we know sunlight however diffuse only inhibits the process of generation and scatters the astral spirit into oblivion, we know physical water impedes the work of collection of dry water because the two do not mix, and if our matter is not empty then it is not hungry.

There are two main distillates of urine...one is strong alkali and the other water...with which does one water
the inspissating subtle spirit?
If you are really going to take the time to seperate the two then use the strong alkali one to "water" or moisten with at night and the watery phlegm extraction to extract with,... making sure this one contains the spirit of urine than comes over in "veins" and has a multi-colered sheen like that given when we see fuel spilled on water.

I wonder if this is what I came across: The volatile liquid was once again distilled off...should I call it ammonia?..and the faeces calcined
as before expecting an even whiter salt to be left than previously, however the reamining salt was a
sort of tan and smelled of, what I can only describe as, bitumen.

Are you refering to this bit from the text?
The Marle being first dissolved by the air, and then managed in the same manner, yielded a bitumenous salt, but in a small quantity

If so then ......perhaps.
 
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rogerc

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A pertinent quote on a process from RAMS:

Preparation of Salt of the Earth or Saltpeter of the Philosophers from
Virgin Soil


In the month of May, when the sky is clear and bright and the air is pure and
the weather is still fine, without wind and rain, and lovely odors are
everywhere, that is, as it were, lovely odors are rising all around, one should
enjoy the early morning and the sunrise, along a beautiful path where the
good black earth is so rich, and even more beautiful is the red, the gold, and
the red-gold of Nature’s beautiful plants and flowers, which take care to bear
in the clover family. The red and gold earth in the mountains of the wine
country is also very magnificent. Also even the lime-pit, when you can
regard it as more than just sandy. Dig down a few hundredweights, shut
yourself apart from one another, so that the stars might well operate therein:
This, one should also let lie fallow for 14 days and nights; however, should
rain set in, one must cover it well with straw until the weather becomes clear.
After waiting 14 days, put the earth in tubs and cover it well. Afterwards, a
few tubs should be made, like the silk refiners have, for subjecting the soil to
washings with lye (warm water is best) and allow it to stand for 24 hours and
then afterwards draw it off, boil it down tone-fourth its original volume, let it
stand for a few days, and then open it. It is like saltpeter; it burns, but not
much. It is then dissolved, filtered, and coagulated with rain water until
complete. Hereafter, it is called Sal Terra (Salt of the Earth) and also
Saltpeter Philosophorum (Philosophers’ Saltpeter) or even Sal Natureae
Virgineum (Pure Natural Salt) which is dissolved in the seas of the world.
The hand is not easily washed.
This is now the high Secretum Philosophorum (Philosophers’ Secret) in
which the Universal Spirit of the World is often hidden. It is often called
Woman’s Work, since it is associated with soapmaking and cooking.
Sal hoc naturae (Salt of this nature) is thus a unique thing to be considered,
since it is actually made up of three different kinds of salt. First, there is a
universal salt of the nature of saltpeter and soil, in which the spirit of the
world frequently resides. It is not volatile and not completely fixed, but has a
middle nature. More than any other, it contains a sal ammoniac, which is
actually volatile. And, in the third place, it contains hidden in it an alkali, and
a fixed salt. It is also triune, and manifests itself in its subsequent reactions.

Preparation of the Universal Spirit and Volatile Salt; Sal Ammoniac
and Salt of the Earth


Sal Superius (Superior Salt), 1 pound, is added to 3 pounds of special earth,
from which the salt was made, although such earth must first be further
calcined in a potter’s kiln, then made into droplets with rain water (much like
child’s play
). The droplets were allowed to dry and then distilled in a wellmounted
retort above a controlled, but open, flame, by way of a condenser
into a large receiver, wherein some pure water had been poured. The
distillation was carried out using a hot fire. After the volatile salts had
sublimed in the receiver, the part of the product remaining in the neck of the
retort was gradually allowed to cool, the spirits and volatile salts present in
the receiver were then washed together and combined and the combined
washings were carefully neutralized. Again taking 1 pound of salt, proceed
as before and repeat this procedure 4, 5 or 6 times, neutralizing the spirits
and volatile salts carefully so as to incur no appreciable loss. The spirits and
volatile salts were neutralized together in a large glass flask and separated
from the phlegm on a steam bath and distilled over from a sand bath six
successive times to give the spirits, which were always carefully preserved.
However, the salts remaining behind at the bottom of the flask after
distillation over a hot fire was neutralized along with such as were sublimed.
The process was repeated 5 or 6 times, and the product was white as snow,
with no feces remaining behind, and was stored safely.
Now all Capita Mortua (dead heads) were taken and calcined one more time
in a potter’s kiln and the resulting fixed salts were extracted with distilled
rain water therefrom and the best of such was purified until it was perfectly
white, sparkling, and clear as a crystal, with no fecal matter left in the residue.
 

rogerc

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Now compare this quote which comes from The Instructions of The Manufacture of Saltpeter:
The general conditions necessary to the formation of saltpetre are: 1st, the presence of decaying organic matter, animal or vegetable, especially the former; 2d, an alkaline or earthy base, as potash or lime; 3d, sufficient moisture; 4th, free exposure to the oxygen of the air; and 5th, shelter from sun and rain.

These conditions are often found in nature, as in the soil of all caves, but particularly those in limestone countries; and still more frequently under a concurrence of circumstances which, though not strictly natural, is at least accidental, so far as the formation of nitre is concerned, as in cellars, stables, manure-heaps, &c. In crowded cities, with narrow, dirty streets and lanes, the decomposing organic matter with which the soil is impregnated becomes gradually nitrified, oozes through, and dries on the walls and floor of the cellars, as a whitish crust, easily detectible as saltpetre by the taste. The same salt may be found in the soil beneath stables of several years' standing, particularly if lime or ashes have been used to hasten the decomposition of the manure; also in the earth of sheep and cattle pens, if these have remained several years in the same position; also in the soil beneath manure-heaps, particularly if lime or ashes have been added to them, as is common among farmers in making compost. It is very important, then, that the soil of such caves, cellars, stables, pens and manure-heaps, as described above, should be tested for saltpetre. If the salt exists in considerable quantities, it may be detected by the taste; if not, a small quantity of the earth may be leached, and the ley boiled down to dryness, and then tested by the taste. If there be still any doubt, any chemist or educated physician may test it. If the earth contains saltpetre in sufficient quantities, it must be leached, and the salt crystallized, by methods which we have described below.

with this one from the letter of A.L. Gerbant that I often speak of:
Your agent solvent is devoid of virtue. Although you use it properly, its weakness does not allow him to lead(reincrudate or dissolve radically) the metallic substance. It dissolves well but do not feed it disbanded.

Remember a few general principles that will help you understand what you have to do.

Ignis & Azoth tibi sufficiunt, Has told. These are the two agents in this animation. All your attention should be focused on the Azoth. If you read Arnauld de Villeneuve you'll be convinced ..

For over half a century that has brought order in chemistry, Lavoisier's gentlemen, Guytton Morveau, balsam, agreed on a precise nomenclature, but gave a bit random names formerly known.

But it is Mr. Lavoisier himself was firmly held in the name of nitrogen that part of the air called skunk, and it cons for these fellows. The name nitrogen was therefore adopted. Mr. Lavoisier's was much more educated in the science of Hermes as did his successors thought. Those who understand both the ideas of chemistry easily distinguished in his writings. The nitrogen in the air, Be sure, is nitrogen philosophers. It is found only in the body that have been living at the time of decomposition, it finally resolved into ammonia. Mr. Boussingault recently did a remarkable analysis demonstrating that mist and dew contain the acid of nitre. It is true that this learned chemist had no other intention than to prove that the plant nitrogen from the air and rain, without noticing that the benefit derives mineral soil as well. And discovered that its confirmed the Emerald Tablet which teaches us that the Sun and Moon are the father and mother, the wind carries in her womb, and that the earth is its nurse. Astral seed of the sun and the moon dissolves in the dew when it condenses. It behooves us then to put in the ground where it is fed.......This will be the purity of philosophical nitre, as is the purity of the dissolution of the body when you make the second job that you know well, so I could judge from our conversations on the day of our walk along the Moselle .

This alone can give the nitre azoth soli-lunar metal body which has been in private foster leaving the mine. Alone transcend the subtle under the sun and moon which has been impregnated during its making. Ordinary saltpetre which is manufactured in nitrières contains the truth a tiny fraction but to a degree so low that the nose can achieve after him lead the nascent metal.

If you think you will see that in the artificial nitrières are employed rubble from the demolition of old barns, impregnated with the urine of cattle, including nitrogen fed nitrogen from the air to which the plaster is exposed during two or three years before washing. The rain and sun operate at random from the weather, there is very little setting under the astral. While our practice is simply following the nature élaoigne adverse circumstances and take advantage of favorable.

Do we see the similarities for the formation of natural saltpeter and the circumstances which will elevate it to philosophic salt-peter in which the universal spirit of the world is to be found. Can we see how the astral volitality of this spirit can be made to become more and more fixed and eventually made powerful enough yet stable enough for the use in alchemy. In solid form is it not "our salt peter"..... and in liquid form is it not "our vinegar of the mountains" or......the water that wets not the hands, i.e. our astral solvent of Cyliani, the liquid key that unlocks metals ...the seed and true matrix of gold and mother of metals that the philosophers truly meant the one that reincrudates them and reverts them back to the state of the universal gur of nature as they formed in the mine thus imparting to them a vegetative power and life force.
 
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rogerc

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I just wanted to reiterate one thing here:
On that in the first bason one hundred drops of spirit of nitre were first dropped, and when it began to ferment, cold water was poured on it. The ebullition was strong, the bason was filled with froth', and a great smoke issued from it. In the space of a few minutes the Marle was perfectly dissolved.

Spirit of nitre here is not just nitric acid it is not that simple and it won't work if you do it that way, this was the way of thinking of the proto-chemists that ignored the spirit and therfore found nothing in our art.

This is not chemistry we are dealing with, this is the living acid of nature, compared to nitric acid it is relatively weak although it does contain some but more importantly it carries with it a living volatile spirit which is alchemically what we are trying to fix not the chemical salt, it tastes hot to the tongue but it is not strong enough to corrode, it acts radically on the earth because of the spiritus mundi it contains, and remember the emerald tablet here.....the north wind carried it in its belly and the earth is its nurse, therefore we should use the earth to nurse it till it is mature and fixed enough that it can bear the violence of our operations....read here again from the letter of A.L. Gerbant:
And discovered that its confirmed the Emerald Tablet which teaches us that the Sun and Moon are the father and mother, the wind carries in her womb, and that the earth is its nurse. Astral seed of the sun and the moon dissolves in the dew when it condenses. It behooves us then to put in the ground where it is fed.
 

rogerc

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Some thoughts....from "Dwellings Of The Philosophers"~Fulcanelli

Salamander, in Latin salamandra, comes from sal, salt, and mandra, which means stable
and also rock hollow
, solitude, hermitage. Salamandra then is the name of the salt of the
stable, salt of the rock
, or solitary salt. In the Greek language this word takes another
meaning, revealing the action that provokes: the Greek word [***-125-1] (Salamandra)
appears formed from [***-125-2] (Sala) meaning agitation, perturbation, used probably
for [***-125-3] (salos) or [***-125-4] (zale), agitated water, tempest, fluctuation, and
from [***-125-5] (mandra) which has the same meaning as in Latin. From these
etymologies we can draw the conclusion that the salt, spirit or fire takes birth in a stable,
a rock hollow, a grotto... That is enough
. Lying on the straw of his manger in the grotto
of Bethlehem, is Jesus not the new sun bringing light to the world? Is he not God himself
in his carnal and perishable shell? Who the has said: "I am the Spirit and I am the Life;
and I have come to set fire unto things?".
This spiritual fire, given form and materialized in salt, is the hidden sulphur, since during
its operation it is never made manifest or perceptible to our eyes. And yet this sulphur, as
invisible as it may be, is not an ingenious abstraction or a doctrine stratagem. We know
how to isolate it, how to extract it from the body that conceals it, by an occult means and
in the appearance of a dry powder which, when it is in that state, becomes improper and
without effect for the philosopher’s art. This pure fire, of the same essence as the specific
sulphur of gold but less digested, is, on the other hand, more abundant than that of the
precious metal. This is why it easily unites with the mercury of minerals and imperfect
metals. Philalethes affirms that it is found hidden in the belly of Aries, or the Ram,
constellation which the sun crosses in the month of April. Finally, to even better
designate it, we will add that this Ram, "which hides within itself the magical steel",
ostensibly bears on its shield the image of the hermetic seal, the star with six rays. So it is
in this very common matter, which may seem merely useful to us, that we must look for
the mysterious solar fire, a subtle salt and spiritual sulphur, a celestial light diffused in the
darkness of the body, without which nothing can be done and which nothing could
replace.
From another place in the book where he gives away the significance of the Ram and alludes again to its sign or seal.
Nicolas Grosparmy, Norman Adept of the 15th century,
gives an illustration of this spherical utensil, laterally tabulated, which he also calls
matrix. Furthermore, the X denotes sal ammoniac of the sages or salt of Ammon ([*202-
2] --- ammoniakos), in other words, salt of the Ram (26), which was formerly written,
more accurately, harmoniac, because it realizes the harmony ([*202-3] --- assembling),
the agreement of water with fire, because it is the mediator par excellence between
heaven and earth, the spirit and the body, the volatile and the fixed
. It is also the Sign,
without any other qualification, the seal that reveals to man the intrinsic virtues of the
prime philosophical substance through certain superficial lineaments

Lets begin with "salt of the stable", here lets go back to the letter from A.L. Gerbant....
The nitrogen in the air, Be sure, is nitrogen philosophers. It is found only in the body that have been living at the time of decomposition, it finally resolved into ammonia
Alone transcend the subtle under the sun and moon which has been impregnated during its making. Ordinary saltpetre which is manufactured in nitrières contains the truth a tiny fraction but to a degree so low that the nose can achieve after him lead the nascent metal.
If you think you will see that in the artificial nitrières are employed rubble from the demolition of old barns, impregnated with the urine of cattle, including nitrogen fed nitrogen from the air to which the plaster is exposed during two or three years before washing
So then it becomes clear that the universal spirit given birth to or encased in a natural salt-peter would manifest itself given the right environment, it then becomes pre-requiste then that this environment as Fulcanelli explains, be a stable whose construction includes "plaster" walls thus the use of gypsum or limestone or alternatively a natural grotto which was again reaffirms our notions when we define the grotto.

Grottohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grotto
A grotto (Italian grotta and French "grotte") is any type of natural or artificial cave that is associated with modern, historic or prehistoric use by humans. When it is not an artificial garden feature, a grotto is often a small cave near water and often flooded or liable to flood at high tide. The picturesque Grotta Azzurra at Capri and the grotto of the villa of Tiberius in the Bay of Naples are outstanding natural seashore grottoes. Whether in tidal water or high up in hills, they are very often in limestone geology where the acidity dissolved in percolating water has dissolved the carbonates of the rock matrix as it has passed through what were originally small fissures. See karst topography, cavern.

Mantic springs that issued from grottoes were a feature of Apollo's oracles at Delphi, Corinth, and Clarus.[1] The new-built Hellenistic city of Rhodes was provided with rock-cut artificial grottos with "naturalistic" features.[2] At the great Roman sanctuary of Praeneste south of Rome, the oldest portion of the primitive sanctuary was situated on the next-to-lowest terrace, in a grotto in the natural rock where there was a spring that developed into a well. Such a sacred spring had its native nymph, who might be honored in a grotto-like nymphaeum, where the watery element was never far to seek.[3]

Wow, now we can see Cyliani's allusions in Hermes Unveiled to the nymph who gave him the astral spirit solvent with which he used to unlock the door to the matter containing the two metallic natures.

Now for the second salt found in the belly of the Ram, its is clear Fulcanelli alludes to it as well but Beuther is more charitable when he says:
More than any other, it contains a sal ammoniac, which is actually volatile.

Now,... its clear Cyliani and Fulcanelli are of the same linegage so lets take a close look Beuthers process in light of Hermes Unveiled in regard to a blatent similiarity:
.
Sal hoc naturae (Salt of this nature) is thus a unique thing to be considered,
since it is actually made up of three different kinds of salt. First, there is a
universal salt of the nature of saltpeter and soil, in which the spirit of the
world frequently resides. It is not volatile and not completely fixed, but has a
middle nature. More than any other, it contains a sal ammoniac, which is
actually volatile. And, in the third place, it contains hidden in it an alkali, and
a fixed salt. It is also triune, and manifests itself in its subsequent reactions

Now the first operation being ended, one has the Azoth or the White Mercury or the cell or the Secret Fire of the philosophers. From this point on certain sages dissolve it the least quantity of Astral Spirit necessary to produce a thick solution. Having the solution, they place it in a cold place in order to obtain the three layers of salt.

The first salt has the aspect of wool. The second of a niter with very small points and the third is a fixed, alcaline salt.
~~~
The first salt is the veritable Mercury of the Philosophers. It is the key that opens all the metals by the aid of which one extracts their tinctures. It dissolves everything radically. It fixes and ripens all equally while fixing the bodies by its cold and congealing nature. Briefly it is a very active universal essence. It is the vase in which all philosophical processes are undertaken. One thus sees that the Mercury of the Wise is a salt which is named dry water which does not wet the hands, but to make use of it, it must be dissolved in the Astral .Spirit, as we have already said. One uses ten parts of mercury against one of gold.

The second salt serves to separate the pure from the impure and the third salt serves continually to increase our mercury

And finally I will leave it to the reader to sort out which salt is which.
 

rogerc

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From these
etymologies we can draw the conclusion that the salt, spirit or fire takes birth in a stable,
a rock hollow, a grotto... That is enough. Lying on the straw of his manger in the grotto
of Bethlehem, is Jesus not the new sun bringing light to the world? Is he not God himself
in his carnal and perishable shell? Who the has said: "I am the Spirit and I am the Life;
and I have come to set fire unto things?".

For the Christians among us: http://www.sophiainstitute.com/client/email_ads/100924_nativity_cc.html
Since the time of the apostles, Christians have revered as the actual birthplace of Jesus the low, arched natural limestone grotto that shelters cattle in the lovely painting below
Grotto_painting_400px.jpg
 
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rogerc

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Yes I found these links a few years back and I was thinking about this the other day when I realized Marl was limestone...
A few functional dew ponds can still be found on the highest ridges of England's bleak Sussex Downs and on the Marlborough and Wiltshire Hills, and connected to castle walls. They always contain some water that apparently condenses from the air during the night.

Marlborough~the land of Marl? No doubt then that some of these would then be natural "dew ponds", however for our work of course a different dew is implied.
 

abdo

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Yes I found these links a few years back and I was thinking about this the other day when I realized Marl was limestone...

Marlborough~the land of Marl? No doubt then that some of these would then be natural "dew ponds", however for our work of course a different dew is implied.

None of the Arabic Adepts I have met, where interesting in waters people here are wasting time looking for (in such thread of this forum 26 pages till now talking about it) .
They are using key salts, treated in special ways, in their works.
They are using it as a dissolvent combined with their works either solid or liquid state (dissolved naturally, for example near humid places in wells, autoclaves, couscous pot and alike).
They are also using liquid of such metals as a secret solvent.
They are using vinegar mixed with salts and make wonders with it.
They are using soaps of 7 salts.
 
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Andro

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None of the Arabic Adepts I have met, where interested in waters people here are wasting time looking for.

:)

Quoth myself from right now:

None of the Non-Arabic Adepts (that I have met), were wasting their time looking for whatever it is that Arabic Adepts are wasting their time on :cool:

Diversity, Abdo, Diversity!

If 'Time' is being generated, then it is needed, and thus never wasted!

No matter what Arabic (or Non-Arabic) 'Adepts' are (or aren't) 'wasting' their No.1 Liquids, No.2 Solids or No.3 Dogmas on :)

On the other hand - If SOME believe that OTHERS are 'wasting their time' - then you can be sure there are also OTHERS who believe that some OTHER 'Others' are also 'wasting their time'...

Taking it all the way, we inevitably come to the conclusion that ALL Time is a complete waste of time :D

Oh, the Cosmic Irony!

Now, seriously:

My friendly advice to you (and to everyone else), is to remain open to concepts which are not necessarily part of the comfort-zone landscapes you are already familiar with...
_______________________________________

PS (for everyone here):

Quoth Madonna:

Papa Don't Preach!

:cool:
------------------------------------------------------
 
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abdo

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My friendly advice to you (and to everyone else), is to remain open to concepts which are not necessarily part of the comfort-zone landscapes you are already familiar with...

Jaber bin Hayyan has written hundreds of books with twisted language to mislead people and he got his tutor Ja'afar Al Sadique angry by telling him either you write books that people can follow or you stop writing.
 

Andro

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either you write books that people can follow or you stop writing.

Not sure I'm following, BUT:

I am simply pointing out that it may be constructive and mutually enhancing to elevate Diversity and Open-Mindedness, above Self-Righteousness and Dogma.

Applying this concept may work quite well for various Alchemical Waters, 'Celestial Agriculture', and pretty much everything else...

Nobody is forcing you to embrace their views. And if you merely disagree with them, it does NOT mean they are 'wasting their time'.

That's my whole point...
------------------------------------
 
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rogerc

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None of the Arabic Adepts I have met, where interesting in waters people here are wasting time looking for (in such thread of this forum 26 pages till now talking about it) .
They are using key salts, treated in special ways, in their works.
They are using it as a dissolvent combined with their works either solid or liquid state (dissolved naturally, for example near humid places in wells, autoclaves, couscous pot and alike).
They are also using liquid of such metals as a secret solvent.
They are using vinegar mixed with salts and make wonders with it.
They are using soaps of 7 salts.

Jaber bin Hayyan has written hundreds of books with twisted language to mislead people and he got his tutor Ja'afar Al Sadique angry by telling him either you write books that people can follow or you stop writing.


I agree with you these practices are the oldest, the most straight foward, and they were without a doubt, the processes the ancients were alluding to in most cases.

About the thread you speak of,... I agree, partially, because the ancients were unaware of these practices and were not given to irrational/abstract thought, the very need for survival dominated their thoughts and all they knew of alchemy stemmed from their direct knowledge of nature and God because they lived soley off the land and slept under the stars, they literally put down rocks for their pillows, so it is clear this was not the method wherby the philosophers filled their books with, since the ancients laid down the ground work that all succeeding generations would follow in our art, the science of hermes.....

Now that being said, there are, other ways of working that the ancients were ignorant of that require no physical matter for the support or collection of spiritus mundi,.... no minerals,.... no salts but those methods, which are the most "occult" and hidden in our art and frankly should remain so,.... they are not, however, the subject of this thread nor are they the method that nature uses, or in any uncertain terms, at least not directly. The universal spirit works with nature through the physical realm, it attaches itself therin this much is clear, because this is how every living thing receives sustanance, through a physical matter, subtle energies or astral spirits attach themselves to salts or become salts physically, this shows their initial appearance on the physical realm, even in our so called "purist" methods, they will appear breifly,..... read the Compass of The Wise and the great exposition on salt it gives as well as The Golden Chain of Homer who seem to have had the same author and you will be convinced.

However to know this method being described here...... the Celestial Agriculture,.... for the wise, it will lead to a better understanding of how nature works not only in material reality but also in the most abstract of ways as well because when we follow the trail,.....well, then thats when we become familiar with these laws that allow for its manifestation, then and only then can we can move on to applying them without a physical matter for its support and furthermore to suggest that natures laws even in the slightest can be ignored, is complete folly.

And IMO it is also folly to move on to these so called "purist" methods without first mastering the ones that use matter, but all this shows in the end to someone who has acquired this wisdom is that the matters are not important, only natures laws and the application of them.....How nature generates or more aptly the conditions required for generation to take place(implies the initial appearance of mercury philosophical, i.e. spirit). How that which is generated is matured and is moved from adolescence into adulthood or again more aptly the conditions required for this action to take place(implies the maturation of that inital mercury into a fixed philosophical sulfur, e.g. soul)....

Therfore the laws are the same with or without the supporting matter because the heart of the matter is not the atomic substance of the physical matter which is explained by chemistry but instead its spiritual kernel, the spiritus mundi or universal spirit.......All the most learned and wise of the philosophers and alchemists agreed, it is the main subject or chief constiuient of the philosophers stone and no other substance should come into it contact with it that it can ingress into or become defiled by it until we are ready to specify it...if our wish then is to specify it to the mineral realm, therfore a fixed and pure metallic sulfur is required.

The problem then becomes how to attract enough of it without it ingressing into the collecting matrix, that's what this thread I have created here is attempting to explain and not in my fondest dreams and unsupported, unsubstantiated musings, but in light of the philosophers writings which I often quote in support of.
 
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abdo

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Extracted from Rams Collection ARCANUM ARCANORUM (SECRET OF SECRETS)

Here begins a great secret of nature, wherein great works of wonder can be found. The philosophers say of this seed which produces the metals, as follows: That a heavenly influence falls down in accordance with the order of God, and mingles with the earthly quality (or: property). When such a conjunction takes place, it gives birth to an earthly being as the third. That is the beginning of our seed and its first provenance.
If we were now to ask a nearby and inexperienced man, saying that the Aer is a Sal. comm. (common salt) from which all creatures come, by which they grow and are sustained, without which nothing can be done; and that we can also obtain a beautiful and white Sal comm. in strong, hot sunshine in an open field, at home in one’s own house, in all rooms and quarters; and again also in ice-cold in rather a large quantity, with which one can perform wondrous deeds - without doubt, he would reply scornfully and sneeringly, and say: This one is talking foolishly. But it does not matter if he of I be foolish. It is still true. Its truth will be proven if we proceed as follows:
Take a beautiful, round, framed mirror, which should be in size and depth like the scale of a balance, and also in such a form and depth that the sun’s rays can converge in its center. Let this mirror stand for only a few days under the open sky, when the sun shines hottest (NB. At night, it is to be put away.) Then in the center of the mirror, a snowhite Sal Comm. will gather, which can be scraped off with a knife into a small glass bowl. Of that Sal comm. several ounces can be collected in a short time. If it is left standing thus, well protected from rain and wind, it will increase in weight and quantity. In this Sal comm. there are the four Elements, Aer, Aqua Ignis, Terra. Out of Terra it has become corporeal and tangible in a visible and tangible body. If it is put in warmth, it flows like water. In it the Element Ignis is hidden and buried, which may be noticed by its taste. After it has been standing or putrefying for a long time, it turns quite blood-red, like a fiery ruby. But whoever wants to catch the air into an ice-cold water under the open sky or in hot sunshine, and much of it, must do as follows:
Take the glass or Instrument here illustrated, put a moderate Ignis under it, standing in hot sand, and the heat will attract the air-water B and fill the glass, which is so cold that you cannot hold it to your mouth. And this water is the vinegar of the philosophers or their Menstruum . This Menstruum or water also contains the elements . Out of air it has turned into a tangible water. If this water is boiled down or putrefied, it likewise turns into a ruby-red stone. In this way, therefore, this Sal comm. of nature is seen in a soft or hard form, as one wants. This is now a noble medicine for all harmful diseases, whatever they may be. Let the big shot like it or not (literally: let the great Hans like it or not!), let him understand it or not, it is nonetheless true, for with his unbelieving puffed head he can neither end nor know this Art. This Sal Commun.of nature, if it is prepared in this way by itself, is the highest qrcanum , or secret, of nature, which God has put into nature, because it costs so little and is obtained without great trouble and work.
Now take, in the name of the Lord, as much as you have or wish of this noble air-salt at lit. A., and of the air—water at lit. B. twice or three times as much. Put them together into a vial—glass and place it on a warm stove, and all will melt and soon turn into a light (in color) water (D). NB. But if you wish to turn the air—water into a very high Spiritum (C), with which one can do wonders, it is much stronger and works all the faster, NB. is the following written for your pleasure, (or you are at liberty to do it).

TESTING THIS SAL COMM.

If this air-salt is made quite crystalline - it happens if one lets it dissolve or melt in its own air—water and then lets one half or two—thirds of the water evaporate, the rest is put in a clean glass in a cold spot or cellar - crystals will sprout quite white and clear, and these immediately flow again and are quite pretty and sweet. If you now let this salt flow in a small silver bowl under a muffle, it will swallow gold and Luna in momento. When it no longer swallows Sol or Lunas leaves, it has dissolved everything. This is now one of the High Sol Potabil. with which something can be done in all sicknesses. Sile, sile. (Silence, silence!)
Now we come to the work of a Particular recipe. Take some of the finest and thinly beaten Solis (gold), as much as you wish. Pour on it two or three parts of the above mentioned menstruum D., and it will dissolve if it is but put on a warm stove or in ashes. But if you wish to dissolve it still faster, take one Loth (one¬half ounce) of this air-salt (A), and Spiritus Nitri optimi brought to the highest degree 10 Loth. Let it stand as it is, not near the heat, and the Sal comm. will dissolve. With this salt dissolved in Spiritu Nitri you can dissolve gold, which will go fast.
NB. The first modus with its own water is nevertheless better, even if it is somewhat slower and the air water is turned into a subtile Spiritu . If the gold, as said above, is but dissolved, seal the glass well and put it for three days in a lukewarm place. Then it will coagulate, and everything in the glass m.e.a. turns into salt. This hardened salt soon turns back into water. If gold has been dissolved in it, the water turns blood-red (E); but if silver has been dissolved in it, everything turns sky-blue.

This salt and water collection depends on sun rather on moon or dew or stars or clay or malt and gold melt in it like ice.
 
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rogerc

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This is one example for what I was talking about salt, however the instructions here are incomplete, the result of a bad translation, which inverts the entire crux or integrity of the instruction. Here in the first part a pulvis solaris is implied...however I should caution you that this is not the spiritus mundi,.....remember what Fulcanelli says.... sunlight, however filtered or diffuse has a fatal reaction on unestablished entities and on natures generation...this is one of the natural laws I have been referring to.
.Look here, we say, you who have laboured so hard, what are you
claiming to do with your lighted furnaces, your many, varied and
useless utensils? Do you hope to accomplish a veritable creation
out of all the pieces? Certainly not, since the faculty of creation bellongs only to God, the one Creator. Then it must be a generative process
which you hope to bring about within your materials. But in
that case you must have the help of nature and you may be sure that
this help will be refused to you, if, by ill fortune or from ignorance,
you do not put nature in a position where its laws can be applied.
What, then, is this primordial condition, which is essential if any
generation is to take place? I will reply on your behalf: the total
absence of any solar light, even when diffused or filtered. Look
around you, consult your own nature. Do you not see that with man
and with animals fecundation and generation take place, thanks to a
certain disposition of organs, in complete obscurity, maintained until
the time of birth? Is it on the surface of the earth-in full light-or
within the earth itself-in darkness-that vegetable seeds can germinate
and be reproduced? Is it during the day or the night that the
life-giving dew falls, which feeds and vitalizes them? Take the mushroom,
is it not during the night that it grows and develops? And as
for you yourself, is it not also during the night, in sleep, that your
organism repairs its losses, eliminates its waste matter, builds new
cells, new tissue, in place of those burnt up and destroyed by daylight?
There is no process, even down to the work of digestion, the
assimilation of food and its transformation into blood and organic
substance, which does not take place in the dark. Would you like to
try an experiment? Take some fertile eggs and hatch them in a welllighted
room. At the end of the incubation, all your eggs will contain
dead embryos, more or less in a state of decomposition. Any chick
that is born is blind, sickly and will not survive. That is the fatal
effect of the sun, not on the vitality of established individuals, but on
the generative process. Do not think either that these effects of a
fundamental law of nature are limited to the organic kingdoms. Even
minerals, in spite of their less obvious reaction, are subject to it,
as well as animals and vegetables. It is well known that the production
of a photographic image is based on the property, possessed by
the salts of silver, of decomposing in light. These salts resume their
inert, metallic state, whereas in the dark room they had acquired
an active, living and sensitive quality

However the second part of the instruction beginning with "take the glass or instrument here illustrated" provides a track to be dug provided we know what is missing . The first salt does not need to be used to allow the second salt to dissolve gold like ice in warm water, this first salt only provides the sulfur of the sun, the second lunar water/salt however is the true philosophical solvent because it contains the philosophical mercury.
 
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rogerc

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First, there is a
universal salt of the nature of saltpeter and soil, in which the spirit of the
world frequently resides.

The first salt has the aspect of wool.................The first salt is the veritable Mercury of the Philosophers. It is the key that opens all the metals by the aid of which one extracts their tinctures. It dissolves everything radically

Salamander, in Latin salamandra, comes from sal, salt, and mandra, which means stable
and also rock hollow, solitude, hermitage. Salamandra then is the name of the salt of the
stable, salt of the rock, or solitary salt...... From these etymologies we can draw the conclusion that the salt, spirit or fire takes birth in a stable,a rock hollow, a grotto... That is enough.

Here! The hair/wool like salt naturally formed in some part of the world.

salt_hair.jpg


The spirit of the world giving birth in a limestone grotto and accumulating on the cave walls, this is also a gold mine. I took these pictures myself, is it not as the classics describe it?

normal_Picture_006.jpg




Another description but sadly no picture: http://www.rkci.org/library/gsp/engle.htm

All passages in Great Saltpetre Cave (Figure 3) are developed within the Ste. Genevieve Limestone Member. Identifying features of the Ste. Genevieve Limestone that can be observed within Great Saltpetre Cave include: 1) From entrance to Echo Auditorium: limestone is light gray, with some oolites (rounded accretionary bodies, resembling fish eggs 0.25 to 2 mm in diameter), pellets, and coated fossils...........
"Cottonball" Crystals in Great Saltpetre Cave

Tufts of fine, hair-like white crystals have been observed on occasion near the junction of the passages between the Echo Auditorium and the Ballroom. Closer inspection found clumps of crystals forming along cracks in the passage ceiling and subsequently falling to the floor. Ruling out other common cave minerals such as gypsum and aragonite, it was postulated that these crystals could be a nitrate mineral. Attempts to remove the crystals to a laboratory for analysis proved impossible because the crystals evaporated when exposed to surface conditions. Because saltpeter crystals, specifically niter, typically form in humidities lower than that of Great Saltpetre Cave (measured to be between 80-100% during different time of the year), and have not been reported to occur in caves in this part of the United States, the crystals are probably not nitrates.

A second possibility is that the crystals are a soluble sulfate, epsomite [MgSO4 ·2H2 O] or mirabilite [Na2 SO4 ·10H2 0]. These minerals are also extremely susceptible to variations in temperature and humidity. Epsomite is stable at a temperature range of 10 to 15°C and a relative humidity below 88% (Hill and Forti, 1997). At temperatures and humidities above this range, the mineral will deliquesce (dissolve). It is believed that air currents generated by the junction of the passages in Great Saltpetre Cave have led to ideal climatic conditions for the cottonball mineral growth. The seasonal appearance of the crystals (i.e. typically present in the winter months) suggests that climate within the cave is highly dependent on the outside surface conditions allowing for the ideal conditions for the growth of these minerals during limited times of the year.
.......speculation......speculation......they seem to disappear when one doesn't know how to handle them, only a true philosopher knows what they are and where to find them, and if he doesn't want to travel that far he can make them.
 
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abdo

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Fulcanelli says.... sunlight, however filtered or diffuse has a fatal reaction on unestablished entities and on natures generation...this is one of the natural laws I have been referring to.
Preparing the Air-salt under hot son contradict to what Fulcanelli above quoted. I cannot imagine the life without sun!!!

1- About Air-salt

The first salt does not need to be used to allow the second salt to dissolve gold like ice in warm water, this first salt only provides the sulfur of the sun, the second lunar water/salt however is the true philosophical solvent because it contains the philosophical mercury.

Air-salt is a must to be included in any ministruum used by this recipe to dissolve metals like ice, while Air-water could be replaced by nitre spirit.

Following quotes from the recipe talk about how Air-salt is important.
If we were now to ask a nearby and inexperienced man, saying that the Aer is a Sal. comm. (common salt) from which all creatures come, by which they grow and are sustained, without which nothing can be done; and that we can also obtain a beautiful and white Sal comm. in strong, hot sunshine in an open field, at home in one’s own house, in all rooms and quarters; and again also in ice-cold in rather a large quantity, with which one can perform wondrous deeds.

In this Sal comm. there are the four Elements, Aer, Aqua Ignis, Terra. Out of Terra it has become corporeal and tangible in a visible and tangible body. If it is put in warmth, it flows like water. In it the Element Ignis is hidden and buried, which may be noticed by its taste. After it has been standing or putrefying for a long time, it turns quite blood-red, like a fiery ruby. “
2-Water-salt
the second lunar water/salt however is the true philosophical solvent because it contains the philosophical mercury.
It can be replaced by spirit of nitre, see following quote from recipe:
But if you wish to dissolve it still faster, take one Loth (one-half ounce) of this air-salt (A), and Spiritus Nitri optimi brought to the highest degree 10 Loth. Let it stand as it is, not near the heat, and the Sal comm. will dissolve. With this salt dissolved in Spiritu Nitri you can dissolve gold, which will go fast
However the second part of the instruction beginning with "take the glass or instrument here illustrated" provides a track to be dug provided we know what is missing .
I could not add the picture of it because I do not have it on website (requirement of this forum), it can be revised in the R.A.M.S collection.

Leo,
I admire your style of writings and thinking and your braveness of saying things loud. You have a philosopher mind and beautiful way to analyses things.
 

abdo

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I have worked with water that able to dissolve sulfur, gold, silver and mercury...etc that work same as water in the secret of secret recipe.
This water is prepared by letting a special salt to be dissolved in humid place, or in sealed vessel in autoclave without the need for stars or dew or moon or sun.
This special salt was a result of cooking 2 salts in a specific way.
 

asta

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I have worked with water that able to dissolve sulfur, gold, silver and mercury...etc that work same as water in the secret of secret recipe.
This water is prepared by letting a special salt to be dissolved in humid place, or in sealed vessel in autoclave without the need for stars or dew or moon or sun.
This special salt was a result of cooking 2 salts in a specific way.

Does that water also putrify the gold?
 

rogerc

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Leo,
I admire your style of writings and thinking and your braveness of saying things loud. You have a philosopher mind and beautiful way to analyses things.

First all of thank you

Preparing the Air-salt under hot son contradict to what Fulcanelli above quoted. I cannot imagine the life without sun!!!

I can't imagine life without the sun either, it is a necessity for established individuals, however for initial generation it's violence is too strong, everyone I know or have read of, they work in the dark initially.

I have worked with water that able to dissolve sulfur, gold, silver and mercury...etc that work same as water in the secret of secret recipe.
This water is prepared by letting a special salt to be dissolved in humid place, or in sealed vessel in autoclave without the need for stars or dew or moon or sun.
This special salt was a result of cooking 2 salts in a specific way.

Yes you are right we don't need sun, neither moon nor stars, this is not what is implied by a setting under the astral, what is important is to mind, is the direction, the season, and most importantly skies must be clear, but yes we can work entirely indoors as I have said many times before. Read the story of Genesis and you'll be convinced:
*1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
*3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
....., the spirit of the lord(universal spirit) moved or hovered over the face of the waters, this happened in the darkness, before he said....."let there be light"........it is for that reason to read the story of genesis and mind it very closely to understand the correct sequence of operations required. For instance here above with the autoclave,..... you did worked in the dark.

1- About Air-salt
Air-salt is a must to be included in any ministruum used by this recipe to dissolve metals like ice, while Air-water could be replaced by nitre spirit.Following quotes from the recipe talk about how Air-salt is important.
2-Water-salt
It can be replaced by spirit of nitre, see following quote from recipe:
I could not add the picture of it because I do not have it on website (requirement of this forum), it can be revised in the R.A.M.S collection

About this document, trust you not the completeness nor the integrity of the translations from RAMS in all cases, for example we were working with a poor translation from the arcana divina for a certain process for the creation of the magnet of the wise very similar to this one, that says to put it in the sun as well, however when we went back to the german text, because I was sure it could not be, it was clear that it said to protect or shield from the sunlight, this changed the meaning entirely because the English translation makes everybody think the sun comes into play when all it said distinctly, was to protect from the sunlight very matter of factly, but however it said to use the magnet to collect when the sun was at it's hottest....... this is the problem when the people doing the translating do not have the subtle mind necessary to interpret the texts from a hermetic standpoint, a word for word translation sometimes loses the spirit or integrity of the original especially when the translator decides to take it upon himself to do the interpreting for us, at that point the truth can get lost very easily.
 

rogerc

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Does that water also putrify the gold?

This is a very good question....one of the most important tenants in alchemy and the laws of nature generation/re-generation......this will show if the universal spirit was present and in fact if it was responsible for the radical dissolution of the gold, because if he was present,what we know is that nature works to regenerate or exhalt the gold through the putrefaction, of course in order to have any putrefaction a solving must occur first. If none of these things occur however we do not work in the alchemy, because alchemy is all about the regeneration and exhalation. I have found many solvents that put gold into solution basically any that evolve oxygen no matter how slowly will do it but this is not alchemy, a radical dissolution happens for quite a different reason,.... it is all about the affinity of philosophical mercury for the metallic sulfur.