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. Sorcery For Immortality And Transmutation Of Metals

Michael Sternbach

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What does this approach have to offer you that other spiritual paths based say on meditation alone cannot offer? I am genuinely interested.

Meditation opens you up and expands your perception into the spiritual realms. This is akin to the dissolving stage in Alchemy, in which matter is lifted up towards the spirit.

However, Alchemy doesn't stop there. It aims to draw the spiritual right down into the physical and keep it there. The adepts refer to this stage as the fixation of the volatile.

Needless to say, both stages will be alternated over and over again during the Great Work. But overall, the first one can be said to culminate in the the White Stone, the second in the Red Stone.

With the words of the Emerald Tablet:

The father of all perfection in the whole world is here.
Its force or power is entire if it be converted into earth.
Separate thou the earth from the fire,
the subtle from the gross
sweetly with great industry.
It ascends from the earth to the heaven and again it descends to the earth
and receives the force of things superior and inferior.
By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world and thereby all obscurity shall fly from you.
Its force is above all force,
for it vanquishes every subtle thing and penetrates every solid thing.
So was the world created.
From this are and do come admirable adaptations where of the means is here in this.

By spiritualizing matter and materializing spirit, Alchemy overcomes the old dichotomy between matter and spirit. From the unification of the two, a third is born.

Seen from a different angle, Alchemy also unites science and mysticism.

In fact, it is the great unifier in so many ways.

That's why it fascinates me.
 

Tannur

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Meditation opens you up and expands your perception into the spiritual realms. This is akin to the dissolving stage in Alchemy, in which matter is lifted up towards the spirit.
According to many many spiritual adepts, meditation can offer much more than that. It can lead to fixation itself.

However, Alchemy doesn't stop there. It aims to draw the spiritual right down into the physical and keep it there. The adepts refer to this stage as the fixation of the volatile.
This is what other spiritual paths aim to do as well. That is the whole point of Sufism. Have you read about fana and baqa. Baqa is the highest level of fixation. A good book is degrees of the soul and I don't see how anyone who have an excuse not to at least skim over it when it is available online!

Seen from a different angle, Alchemy also unites science and mysticism.

In fact, it is the great unifier in so many ways.

That's why it fascinates me.
Fascinates me as well, I have to say. But I still don't see what alchemy has to offer me that Sufism doesn't. I am not saying alchemy doesn't offer new knowledge - a different perspective. But in terms of the spiritual path, I really don't even see how alchemy is a spiritual path.

No one yet has managed to explain to me why Heinrich Khunrath had to start talking to angels and demons *after* producing the stone. He then apparently went on to attain realization, but the stone only played a secondary role in this, such as being used to attract spirits. You can read about his path through the works of Peter Forshaw, but they are a very good example of why the view that alchemy alone leads to realization is a bit naive.

Every path has its "pillars". In some, this would consist of things like meditation, spiritual poetry, or fasting. Different paths have different pillars. Most modern Sufi paths would not include fasting as a major pillar for example, using meditation instead. So what are the pillars of your alchemical path? Do you know of anyone who has reached fixation through it? I can give you hundreds of examples of Sufi saints who have achieved fixation through the Sufi paths that exist today. To give just one example,

https://www.google.com/search?q=sha...XORhUIHVRLBPgQ_AUoA3oECAEQBQ&biw=1280&bih=693
 

Tannur

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It is a good question.

The effects of the philosophers stone open up understanding. It is a spiritual aid in that sense.
Lots of authors involve God in granting the knowledge.
Nothing about their claims is different from the mathematicians who claimed their work was inspired by God. Gauss calling it lightening, etc. And alchemy is all about discovery, so it should be less surprising that there are many claims about "Divine revelation" in alchemy in particular. In mathematics, you learn mainly from books that are clear. You can learn any mathematics you want. Want to learn the mathematics of Newton's day? I can give you a reading list for that. Wnat to learn the mathematics taught at Cambridge University in the victorian times? No problem. It is all very clearly taught, which isn't the same with alchemy. In alchemy, the only path is intellectual discovery. So every alchemist has to be a research scientist in other words. Not every mathematician has to be a research mathematician.
When does the practical become spiritual ?.
If every day i make a fire to keep warm, after how many months does the ability to create warmth become a sacred thing to me, because it helps me survive.
When a carpenter a tradesman makes or fixes something for someone, it becomes a spiritual act.
When the chef feeds people, it becomes a spiritual act.
When a doctor makes medicine and gives it.
When you use practical knowledge to love thyself and love others the practical becomes spiritual.

Many saints used practical knowledge in spiritual acts.
They had trades, education on a variety of things.
Alchemy is the making of medicine. That is holy in a way by itself before any deity or God is associated with it.

What makes a science divine ?. Same thing that makes a simple act divine. How its done. Why its done.
With and for love.
Yes, and that is one of the beautiful things about alchemy. But as you said, I can do this for anything else, not just alchemy. Shakespeare used playwrighting for example. That doesn't make alchemy unique.

Well, it is certainly unique in the knowledge it offers. Also in being the only science I know of where being a research scientist is the rule rather than the exception. One cannot survive in alchemy without being a researcher. One has to embark on the path of intellectual discovery in this art and this art alone. One can be a mathematician without being a research mathematician. Not so in alchemy. It is similar to Sufism in that sense. Spiritual realization cannot be taught to you from a book. But while the Sufi (and other spiritual paths) make their conditions and stages clear from the beginning, alchemy does not. And as far as I can tell, many alchemists do not even know how the path proceeds and how it is meant to lead to realization. One cannot say that this would remove the excitement, because no amount of mere book knowledge can even compare with true spiritual experiences. But to this date, no one has been clear on this topic. Because, in my opinion, all that alchemy has to offer is knowledge of how to produce the stone. And that knowledge is *not* the same as spiritual realization. Believe it all you like my friends.

For an example of how a path leads to realization, read e.g. Llewllyn Vaughan-Lee's books about meditation. Everything is crystal clear there. There is nothing to hide about the path. The only thing that remains is to choose to follow that particular path or opt for something else. But in alchemy, it is not even clear whether the path leads to spiritual realization. And in my very strong opinion, it does not. I ask again, why did Heinrich Khunrath continue travelling the path to God after producing the stone? If producing the stone "makes you the living stone" simultaneously (which is as absurd to me as saying that achieving a maths degree makes you a "living fields medallist" lol), what was everything he did afterwards about then?

Also why was alchemy traditionally taught in the context of magic rather than as its own path? What were astrology and magic about then? Why were they needed? And more importantly, why was alchemy only the first science to be studied? Why did Majriti not say anything about alchemy leading to spiritual realization in his book "rank of the sage"? His next book in the series - the one on astrology - is the one where he starts talking about the attainment of "wisdom" (in the true sense of gnosis). I could not find anything of the sort in his alchemy book, where he says over and over again that alchemy is a stepping stone towards astrology.

Show me one modern alchemical adept who is spiritually realized. Who has attained gnosis and is leading other alchemists along that path. All that one can find is fancily dressed "spagyricists", with fancy pseudonyms, charging $500 for a 1 week course on "alchemy". Very convincing indeed.
 

Michael Sternbach

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Dear Tannur

When I saw your first reply, I knew this was going to develop into a somewhat lengthy debate! Well then, let's have a go at it... <Gives in with a sigh>

According to many many spiritual adepts, meditation can offer much more than that. It can lead to fixation itself.

Mind you, I already admitted that there are other paths that entail similar principles and may therefore lead to similar results like the alchemical one. Especially ones that involve the body in some fashion. However, you brought up meditation as a generic term, and my reply reflected that.

This is what other spiritual paths aim to do as well. That is the whole point of Sufism. Have you read about fana and baqa. Baqa is the highest level of fixation. A good book is degrees of the soul and I don't see how anyone who have an excuse not to at least skim over it when it is available online!
Frankly, I don't see why I would need to excuse myself for not knowing that book. No more than I would feel compelled to apologize for not having read The Book of Mormon, when representatives of that religion show up on my door step.

Fascinates me as well, I have to say.
Hey hey, are you sure you wanna fraternize with me? Please don't abase yourself like that!

But I still don't see what alchemy has to offer me that Sufism doesn't.
And you were doing so well there for a moment! What a bummer.

I am not saying alchemy doesn't offer new knowledge - a different perspective. But in terms of the spiritual path, I really don't even see how alchemy is a spiritual path.

No one yet has managed to explain to me why Heinrich Khunrath had to start talking to angels and demons *after* producing the stone. He then apparently went on to attain realization, but the stone only played a secondary role in this, such as being used to attract spirits. You can read about his path through the works of Peter Forshaw, but they are a very good example of why the view that alchemy alone leads to realization is a bit naive.
Actually, that's an understatement. How naive must we be to believe that it might actually be possible to turn lead into gold and to live forever?

Then again, how naive must the followers of Swami Agarujnapittasaharagoromikaya be in order to believe that they might ever ascend to His lofty level and become the next leader of His illuminated sect?

Every path has its "pillars". In some, this would consist of things like meditation, spiritual poetry, or fasting. Different paths have different pillars. Most modern Sufi paths would not include fasting as a major pillar for example, using meditation instead. So what are the pillars of your alchemical path?
Oh, I really like that one! Hmm, let me see...

Natural Philosophy. Astrology. Magic. Sacred Geometry. Numerology. Kabbalah. Cosmology. Chemistry. Biology. Physics. Mathematics. Psychology. Philosophy in general. History. Mythology.

And movies! Including animes. Especially animes!

Oh, and lab work, of course. Lots of it.

I am sure I missed a few things, but you get the picture, I suppose.

Do you know of anyone who has reached fixation through it?
You bet! In fact, I witnessed it by my very own eyes. It's the world renowned...

Fullmetal123.jpg


I can give you hundreds of examples of Sufi saints who have achieved fixation through the Sufi paths that exist today. To give just one example,

https://www.google.com/search?q=sha...XORhUIHVRLBPgQ_AUoA3oECAEQBQ&biw=1280&bih=693
Alright, that one goes to you. For the adepts are not presenting themselves as elevated masters in need of adoration and reverence. Generally, they see themselves as humble seekers willing to share what they found on their own long journey with those that may find it useful.

I am not sure about you, but personally, this convinces me more of their sincerity and trustworthiness than anything else could.

"Believe those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it." ~Andre Gide

Cheers

Michael
 

Kiorionis

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What makes you believe that the spiritual path leads to knowledge of the stone? Just to clarify my opinion:

The spiritual path inevitably is one of sacrifices and struggles. There is no other way by the agreement of every spiritual adept out there, past or present. One has to struggle against their ego in one form or another.

On the other hand, the path of alchemy is one of knowledge. In much the same way that studying a university course involves struggle, the alchemical path will also involve some form of spiritual struggle. But it is not enough to lead to one "becoming the living stone". If one succeeds, one will still not be the stone.

So, I guess I am confused as to why people mix the two together. Reading alchemical texts has never even hinted to me that the two are the same. Please show me why you think otherwise (if that is indeed what you think).

I would say that the sacrifices and struggles of the spiritual path are just the beginning of the alchemical process. The Black phase or putrefaction of the “matter” is the phase in which Spirit enters in order to begin purifying and rearranging the substance so that it can make a proper dwelling place. The same can be seen with those on the spiritual path, i think the name given to it in the West is the “Dark Night of the Soul”.

And it doesn’t have to be taken so literally either. The next book you read will act the same way as Spirit acts on Matter. The information in the book is Spirit, your present knowledge and understanding is the Matter. That’s how I see it.




I have a different opinion on the alchemical path. I see it as a path or transmutation and transformation.

For example. A man wants to build himself a house, but has absolutely no relevant skills or idea where to start. So he goes to the library and reads a few books, then buys the necessary tools and materials and starts framing. Each time he comes to part of the house building he’s unsure of, he goes back to the library to learn more about it. In the end he builds himself a wonderfully comfortable hermitage.

In the beginning the man wasn’t a carpenter, but in the end—on account of the experiences and struggles he had during construction—he made himself into a carpenter.

I see the Philosopher’s Stone the same way. Once the Stone is made, it’s lessons are finished.
 
Last edited:

Michael Sternbach

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@Kirionis

"In the end he builds himself a wonderfully comfortable hermitage."

You nailed it! :D

@Tannur

Did I mention martial arts? Martial arts definitely belong into the alchemical mixture for me.
 

Tannur

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I would say that the sacrifices and struggles of the spiritual path are just the beginning of the alchemical process. The Black phase or putrefaction of the “matter” is the phase in which Spirit enters in order to begin purifying and rearranging the substance so that it can make a proper dwelling place. The same can be seen with those on the spiritual path, i think the name given to it in the West is the “Dark Night of the Soul”.

And it doesn’t have to be taken so literally either. The next book you read will act the same way as Spirit acts on Matter. The information in the book is Spirit, your present knowledge and understanding is the Matter. That’s how I see it.




I have a different opinion on the alchemical path. I see it as a path or transmutation and transformation.

For example. A man wants to build himself a house, but has absolutely no relevant skills or idea where to start. So he goes to the library and reads a few books, then buys the necessary tools and materials and starts framing. Each time he comes to part of the house building he’s unsure of, he goes back to the library to learn more about it. In the end he builds himself a wonderfully comfortable hermitage.

In the beginning the man wasn’t a carpenter, but in the end—on account of the experiences and struggles he had during construction—he made himself into a carpenter.

I see the Philosopher’s Stone the same way. Once the Stone is made, it’s lessons are finished.
Still doesn't explain how knowledge of the four elements etc will lead to spiritual realization. It's so obvious that the knowledge required for making the stone is not the same as the knowledge required for spiritual realization, which is a much more "practical life" knowledge about how to deal with various situations. I don't deny that the two overlap. How many a time has alchemy come to my aid in the spiritual path? How many insights has alchemy given me about life, spirituality, etc.

But as usual, I don't think I will find the answer I am looking for here. I still don't know how Shakespeare did it. I guess what Kibric said about practicing your craft with a Divine intention is the way of alchemy. That would explain to me why the alchemists placed so much emphasis on moral character in their works. The alchemist, we are repeatedly told, has to be kind to all living things. He has to be charitable and loving to his neighbour. He has to put a smile on his face for people even when he isn't feeling the best. Etc. The books I have read such things in were written by Christian alchemists and they probably derived these values from their religion. Some even wrote full-blown comparisons between Jesus and the stone (including Khunrath!). Goes to show that their religion was their real path, not alchemy. Alchemy definitely does seem to have offered them added insight into their religion. It allows one to understand the religion for oneself, which is how it should be. The alchemist has a particular mind which is very attracted to natural things, and thus alchemy is a wonderful tool for interpreting religion for such a person.

So anyway, I probably mentioned this before on the forums, but I saw Shakespeare ascending on the spiritual ladder with my own eyes. He was laughing ecstatically and was being carried up by angels. The background was dark red. Martin Lings is one authority on Shakespeare who is of the opinion that Shakespeare achieved realization in this life and that his playwrighting craft played an important role in this. His plays have very deep meanings. I believe the alchemists were doing the same thing with alchemy. A craft practiced with a Divine intention and a life well lived. It is not surprising that such a person would be rewarded with Divine knowledge. Then again, as I said, I am not convinced that every alchemist achieved spiritual realization whether or not they managed to make the stone.

Edit: Maybe, just maybe, it is the perfection required in the alchemical art that has something to do with its power of leading to realization? It is well known that Shakespeare was one who really perfected his craft in playwrighting. He was very serious about it indeed. He read all the grammar, rhetoric and logical works of his day, memorizing lines from them and actively using them in his plays. He truly perfected his craft. And by perfecting his craft, he was perfecting himself too. Because only like can produce like. Similarly, alchemy cannot be "half done". You either become a perfect alchemist and produce the stone, or you don't do anything worthwhile in the art. Not that the knowledge gained will not be useful, but you will not be a true alchemist if you don't produce the stone. One can be a mathematician without making a major discovery. In alchemy, one either produces the stone or not. And so one either perfects the art or not.

Notice how this view is not the same as saying that the knowledge required for alchemy somehow leads to realization in and of itself. Rather, it is the struggle towards becoming a perfect adept at a particular craft. Which is a very very difficult and time-consuming endeavour. Playwrighting, physics, alchemy, or anything else. It is not limited to alchemy. But alchemy is one art which forces the person to become an adept. One can be a playwright without being perfect. Not so in alchemy.
 

Tannur

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I was reading Ayurveda: Life, health and longevity by Robert Svoboda yesterday and came across the following two passages just one page apart! Sums it up nicely in my opinion:

"Various are the thoughts and diverse callings of men. The carpenter seeks what is broken, the physician the diseased, the priest the Somapresser...I am a poet, my father is a physician, my mother throws the corn on the grindstone. We pursue wealth and follow our callings as the herdsman his cattle."

"On the completion of his studies the physician is said to be "reborn" and acquires the title of "physician". For no one is a physician by right of birth. On the completion of his studies, the spirit of revelation or inspiration of the truth descends into the student. It is by reason of this initiation, then, that a physician is called a "twice born"."

Does anyone know what the author meant by "On the completion of his studies, the spirit of revelation or inspiration of the truth descends into the student."? Personally, I believe it is what I said above: perfecting a craft leads to perfecting oneself, because only the perfect can produce perfection. I.e. only the one whose intellect has become perfect can produce perfect works in their craft. Because humans are creatures of the intellect. They are rational, knowledge-based beings. So their perfection is through knowledge. And they need to "grow" their particular calling. Unfortunately, not every human is like this. Some only go as far as to become a businessman. This is not really an intellectual calling. But those who pursue an intellectual craft, and perfect it, will become perfect. I like the word "completion" which the author uses, which reminds me of how a tree reaches its completion when it produces fruit. The fruit of the artist is his work. And as his inward perfect increases, so does the quality of his fruit.
 

black

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Hello Tannur

But in terms of the spiritual path, I really don't even see how alchemy is a spiritual path.


There is nothing spiritual about Alchemy at all per se.
It is a Natural Science as I have been repeating over and over again.
BUT ... without the Divine connection there will be NO Alchemy.


In alchemy, the only path is intellectual discovery.

This is most definitely not correct.

The world has about 7.8 billion people, how many intellectuals do you think we have, and
how many Alchemists do you think we have ???
AGAIN ... without the Divine connection there will be NO Alchemy.



But while the Sufi (and other spiritual paths) make their conditions and stages clear from the beginning, alchemy does not.

Because it is not for the multitude .... this science is specific to those that have been called.
If anyone has any doubts about being called to this Work then walk away now before you waste
many years trying to appease your ego.

And as far as I can tell, many alchemists do not even know how the path proceeds and how it is meant to lead to realization.

The path proceeds as the Alchemist is given Understanding from the Divine Light.

Because, in my opinion, all that alchemy has to offer is knowledge of how to produce the stone. And that knowledge is *not* the same as spiritual realization. Believe it all you like my friends.

The Alchemist must have a spiritual connection to be able to advance in the Work.

But in alchemy, it is not even clear whether the path leads to spiritual realization. And in my very strong opinion, it does not.

If you had spent many, many years studying Alchemy and working in the laboratory with
Divine assistance then most probably your opinion may be different.


I ask again, why did Heinrich Khunrath continue travelling the path to God after producing the stone? If producing the stone "makes you the living stone" simultaneously (which is as absurd to me as saying that achieving a maths degree makes you a "living fields medallist" lol), what was everything he did afterwards about then?

Alchemy can be a "stepping stone" to far greater things with Divine Guidence.

Also why was alchemy traditionally taught in the context of magic rather than as its own path?

Alchemy is only part of the Great Puzzle.

What were astrology and magic about then? Why were they needed?


AGAIN .... Alchemy is only part of the Great Puzzle.


And more importantly, why was alchemy only the first science to be studied? Why did Majriti not say anything about alchemy leading to spiritual realization in his book "rank of the sage"? His next book in the series - the one on astrology - is the one where he starts talking about the attainment of "wisdom" (in the true sense of gnosis). I could not find anything of the sort in his alchemy book, where he says over and over again that alchemy is a stepping stone towards astrology.

Yes .... and other things Gifted by the Divine.

Show me one modern alchemical adept who is spiritually realized. Who has attained gnosis and is leading other alchemists along that path. All that one can find is fancily dressed "spagyricists", with fancy pseudonyms, charging $500 for a 1 week course on "alchemy". Very convincing indeed.

Yes there are a lot of mountebank charlatans out there.
They may pocket a few pieces of silver but nothing of real lasting value.

Alchemists can be close with their brother Alchemists ... BUT the leading and Guiding is all
done by .... YES you guest it ... the D L.


It's so obvious that the knowledge required for making the stone is not the same as the knowledge required for spiritual realization, which is a much more "practical life" knowledge about how to deal with various situations. I don't deny that the two overlap. How many a time has alchemy come to my aid in the spiritual path? How many insights has alchemy given me about life, spirituality, etc.

I would assume that most Alchemists are winding up their "practical life situations" and are setting
things in place to move on to .... other things !

Why would you think Alchemy would assist you in any way ??????

Lets face the hard realities of life .... your not an Alchemist. To my Understanding.:D


Foot note.
You can take what I say with a grain of salt or you can do the Work (if you feel the calling) and
tell me I'm an idiot ..... or perhaps even agree with me ... it's all OK.
 

Tannur

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My intention in asking these questions was to understand how alchemy, as a practical natural science, can lead to spiritual realization.

At the end of the day, I just have to admit that I don't know. However, I certainly *feel* that the answer lies in the Divine connection. And this is what I have experienced myself in mathematics, and it seems to be the right interpretation. It *is* the light of nature. And since everything on the face of the earth is a result of this power of natural growth, there is no explanation for it. We can only attribute it to God. And so this is where our intellects end and the spiritual path begins.
 

The Red Lion

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I would like people's opinions on this I found a book early last year called sorcery for beginners. The guy who wrote said he was contacted by a women who was interested in writing a book on sorcery. What's interesting me I did some research on the women and I found on ancestry that there was a women who lived in the 1800s same name but no death was listed on the page no record of her death was on there. I checked the book out and it was listed for children and it was based on a kid who was bullied and he comes across a real magick book store and this women gives him a book on sorcery and this book teaches sorcery but what's interesting about the book is as he learns the spells of the book it teaches you how to do as well with rune magick by using your hands to form runes and In the book it says if you have something that's broken to get a pure sliver thimble and put dead sea salt inside put it near the broken object and do the rune symbols and say the latin word. weirdly enough I tried without the thimble and weirdly enough I got an shock in my hand after doing the rune symbols with my hands. I took the liberty to contact the author told him about the spell I'm trying to do which was the repair an broken item and I explained how I was doing it he said like be careful because with that spell the thimble will end up with splinters on the inside even though it stated it was the repair spell very weird
 

Andro

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using your hands to form runes
If you make magickal symbols/gestures with your hands, make sure you draw every section/line/curve starting from the center and going in both directions outwardly, using both hands.

Graphically:

Don't do this: [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]→[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]→[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Do this: [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]←[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]←[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]←[/FONT]•[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]→[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

The Red Lion

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Do you believe by doing the rune shapes with my hand and using a sliver thimble I could repair a broken object? It make sense to me as life force energy is all around us and sliver must be able to attract this energy and I believe that's what makes the spell work.
 

Kibric

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Links on Dr Faustus. This site used till about a month ago let you see the scans without logging in. Just wanted to show that marlowe based his play on a real man and most people knew it for centuries after.

" The History of the damnable life, and deserved death of Dr. John Faustus. Newly printed, and in convenient places, impertinent matter amended, according to the true copy, printed at Frankford; and translated into English, by P.R. gent.Date[1710?] "
https://wellcomecollection.org/works/prb62afz

" The Famous history of Doctor John Faustus, the noted conjurer and necromancer: wherein is contained many very strange things that himself had seen and done in the earth and air; with his bringing up, travels, and last end.-- Truly translated from the original copy. "
https://wellcomecollection.org/works/vq895ysz

There is a load more if you dig
items


Cant get pic to load. Maybe its the website
 

Michael Sternbach

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Still doesn't explain how knowledge of the four elements etc will lead to spiritual realization.

There is an idea in the Hermetic tradition to establish an image of the macrocosm in the mind of the adept, which will put him/her in resonance with all of Creation.

We find this exemplified in Giordano Bruno's magical memory art as well as in Robert Fludd's universalistic approach. Interestingly, the concept also seems to have influenced Shakespeare. ;)

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1970/03/12/theatre-of-the-world/

There is nothing spiritual about Alchemy at all per se.
It is a Natural Science as I have been repeating over and over again.
BUT ... without the Divine connection there will be NO Alchemy.

We should bear in mind, however, that the distinction between Natural Science and Metaphysics is a relatively modern one, as it is the result of the Scientific Revolution, which first drew a line between matter and mind. Whereas the Hermetic cosmos of the ancients integrated the two aspects into a single holistic model. This model was considered applicable both to the Universe at large (the Macrocosm) and to Man (the Microcosm).

In my view, an updated and expanded version of this model will be needed in order to restore Alchemy, and Hermetics in general, to their rightful place.

This should be seen in context with the idea of a Hermetic revolution that I brought up in one of my previous posts in this thread. As Science becomes more mystical, Mysticism becomes more scientific. ;)
 

Tannur

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Removed. I will try to edit and re-post at some point.
 
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black

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In my view, an updated and expanded version of this model will be needed in order to restore Alchemy, and Hermetics in general, to their rightful place.

This should be seen in context with the idea of a Hermetic revolution that I brought up in one of my previous posts in this thread. As Science becomes more mystical, Mysticism becomes more scientific. ;)

Hi Michael

Many years back I thought how wonderful it could be with Alchemy/Hermetics helping
millions and millions of people all over the world (like most beginners to this art I also
was quite naive) ... but now I have a clearer and some what sadder view.

From the very large numbers of people that take an interest in Alchemy that only after
a short time of weeks, months or years they soon fall from this path and find other things
to amuse themselves with i.e. night clubs, rock climbing, stamp collecting, ping pong, etc, etc.

And that's ok .... because now I have a better understanding of why there is such a
very, very small number of adept alchemists in the world today.

Perhaps one day in the distant future there may be more ???
 

Tannur

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There is an idea in the Hermetic tradition to establish an image of the macrocosm in the mind of the adept, which will put him/her in resonance with all of Creation.

We find this exemplified in Giordano Bruno's magical memory art as well as in Robert Fludd's universalistic approach. Interestingly, the concept also seems to have influenced Shakespeare. ;)

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1970/03/12/theatre-of-the-world/
Nice article. I remember reading something about the microcosm-macrocosm concordance in Imam Ghazali's Wonders of the Heart a while back. I found it very interesting at the time and wished he would go into more detail. But anyway, I have personally found all the detail I could want on this topic in the Koran. I actually studied alchemical texts a lot *before* reading the Koran. So when I started reading it I was able to see the deeper meaning of things like mountains, birds, etc. As I said before, the Koran is the true spiritual alchemy in my opinion. In alchemy, you learn alchemy "externally" for metals and minerals. In the Koran, you learn the true human alchemy through the stories of the Prophets. Whereas alchemy teaches the stages of evolution by the planets, the Koran does so by the Prophets. Being humans, this makes it much easier to learn spiritual alchemy.

There are also magicians, charlatans, snakes, and so on mentioned. These are the forces of darkness within. There are also of course the forces of light in the form of the "occult alchemists" (the part of you which is like the alchemists and pursues its calling with a Divine, sincere intention). I call this part "Shakespeare" because Shakespeare in my opinion is a famous example of someone who was an alchemist at heart. It doesn't matter that he pursued playwrighting. This was *his* calling and he did well. Your calling may not be alchemy. If it is, I encourage you to pursue it as much as possible. Traditionally in the Islamic tradition, the "path of knowledge" was of course not alchemy but instead consisted of the Islamic sciences. As far as I know, the more advanced institutes followed Plato's path of philosophy. So they would first learn the trivium at the lower levels, then the Koranic and Hadith sciences, then philosophy. Things like natural science, metaphysics, philosophical ethics. This tradition is still taught in Turkey today. Hasan Spiker is a good example of someone who followed this path: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hasan+spiker Thomas Aquinas is a good example from the medieval times.

So yes, we must follow Shakespeare. Unfortunately, a lot of people separate their craft/calling from their religion. So they will do physics, for example, without linking it to a Divine intention. They will just do it for the sake of intellectual satisfaction. I do not want to name names (one of the reasons I removed my last post), but examples abound. If you find that a physicist (or anyone else for that matter) does not mention the Divine in his works - except in passing - and simply pursues the craft for ever more results, ever more discoveries, ever more complexity, ever more intellectual satisfaction, then know them by their mark. Sendivogius makes this very clear in the preface to his Twelve Treatises.

"Many Sages, Scholars, and learned men have in all ages, and (according to Hermes) even so early as the days before the Flood, written much concerning the preparation of the Philosopher's Stone; and if their books could be understood without a knowledge of the living processes of Nature, one might almost say that they are calculated to supersede the study of the real world around us. But though they never departed from the simple ways of Nature they have something to teach us, which, in these more sophisticated times, still need to learn, because we have applied ourselves to what are regarded as the more advanced branches of knowledge, and despise the study of so "simple " a thing as natural Generation. Hence we pay more heed to impossible things than to those objects which are broadly exhibited before our very eyes, we excel more in subtle speculations than in a sober study of Nature, and of the meaning of the Sages. It is one of the most remarkable features of human nature that we neglect those things which seem familiar, and are eager for new and strange information. The workman who has attained the highest degree of excellence in his Art, neglects it, and applies himself to something else, or else abuses his knowledge. Our longing for an increase of knowledge urges us ever onward towards some final goal, in which we imagine that we shall find full rest and satisfaction, like the ant which is not endowed with wings till the last days of its life. In our time, the Philosophical Art has become a very subtle matter; it is the craft of the goldsmith compared with that of the humble workman who exercises his calling at the forge. We have made such mighty strides in advance that if the ancient Masters of our science, Hermes and Geber and Raymond Lullius, were to rise from the dead, they would be treated by our modern Alchemists not as Sages but as only humble learners. They would seem very poor scholars in our modern lore of futile distillations, circulations, calcinations and in all the other countless operations wherewith modern research has so famously enriched our Art though without understanding the sense of the ancient writings. In all these respects, our learning is vastly superior to theirs. Only one thing is unfortunately wanting to us which they possessed, namely, the knack they had of actually preparing the Philosopher's Stone. Perhaps, then, their simple methods were after all the best; and it is on this supposition that I desire, in this volume, to teach you to understand Nature so that our vain imaginations may not misdirect us in the true and simple way."

If you see a "scholar" fighting over who discovered what, know him by his mark. If you find a scholar arguing over results, seeking fame, taking up prestigious positions in later life, etc, know him. But if you find someone who lives as anonymous as possible, teaches those who want to learn from him for free, leads a humble existence, and pursues his craft for the highest Divine purpose only, then know them by their mark also. These are the Shakespeares of the world - or, if you like, the alchemists. It doesn't matter what you call them. They are one and the same.

Edit: And one last thing I should probably mention, to round it all off and link it back to the Koran which I mentioned at the start, is that this is the path of Moses. Why do you think so many alchemists mentioned Moses? The path of Shakespeare, of the alchemists, of Thomas Aquinas etc is the path of Moses. His story is mentioned in Surah al-Qasas in the Koran. It is mentioned again in Surah Ta-Ha and at other places. This is the roughest of summaries of Moses's story:

In Surah al-Qasas and Surah Ta-Ha:
1. He is adopted by Pharaoh and learns the ancient Egyptian sciences in Pharaoh's palaces. He probably excels in these studies, meaning of course that he is able to produce the Philosopher's stone. But notice that this is not his *calling*. If it wasn't for being brought up under Pharaoh's guidance, he probably couldn't care less for ancient Egyptian lore. He was a man of God, and men of God are built of a different matter than the ordinary human. He had a higher calling, and possessing the Philosopher's stone wouldn't have meant much to him.
2. Probably at the start of his life as a rising Hierophant, right after completion of his Egyptian studies, Moses decides to go into the city unguarded, unaided. There, two men are fighting. This is the sign of Egypt my friends - know it by its mark. Priority disputes. Arguments over who discovered what. Fighting with fellow scholars. Same thing. So the guy calls out to the rising Hierophant Moses for help. Probably because of his status, Moses felt he had to help him. And he hits the other guy and he dies: https://youtu.be/2rG8HMYsZsc?t=157 (2:37-3:32)
3. Moses escapes to Madyan. This is the Shakespeare phase of the story. And guess what he finds there? Instead of two men fighting, two women are standing waiting to water their sheep. So wait, none of the men there is letting them go ahead? Yes. So these men are charlatans. They are the puffers. Those who pursue the craft for worldly gain, fame, reputation, wealth. Why are they in the land of Shakespeare then? Because one can do outwardly exactly the same thing as those who are true. But inwardly, he is a charlatan. This is the story of the puffers from start to finish. This is the story of the magicians. The fakes. The Shakespeare wannabes: https://youtu.be/2rG8HMYsZsc?t=252 (4:12-5:21)
4. At Madyan, Moses finds his true calling. One of these women is given to him in marriage on condition that he completes 10 years of... watering sheep as a Shepherd! If he can do this for 10 years, he gets to marry the girl. So this girl is like the craft we pursue with a Divine intention. For the alchemist, alchemy is like a wife. It is the succour of his life: https://youtu.be/2rG8HMYsZsc?t=321 (5:21-6:28)
5. After the completion of his apprenticeship in the way of Shakespeare, the alchemists, and all those who pursued their craft with a Divine intention, Moses is given his reward. But it goes much deeper than just a wife. Yes, he masters the craft (i.e. marries the wife). But this leads to much greater things. He is spoken to directly by God. And guess what happens? You know those men who were watering their sheep without letting the women go first? Do you think they got anything in the end? But Moses offered to help the women. He was in it for the Divine. And after 10 years of worshipping the Divine in this way, the tool of his craft - his Shepherd's stick - acquired potent power. It became a snake, but not the evil sort. This is the snake of God. The Divine snake which was to gobble up the snakes of every charlatan out there: https://youtu.be/2rG8HMYsZsc?t=387 (6:27-7:44) So Moses was not even seeking fame, but he got fame in the end. What does this mean? :

a. The works that the true practitioner produces gobble up the works of every other practitioner out there. They supersede by their elegance, magnificence, power. Is there a playwright greater than Shakespeare in the English language? Is there a natural scientist who can create an object of greater worth and majesty than the philosopher's stone?

b. The Divine intention that one develops gobbles up the taint of satan within. That seeking of wordly fame. The charlatan, puffer impulse. The stain of hypocrisy. All of that is gobbled up, and one becomes pure. This is the white hand of Moses, for Moses was not just given the snake. He was also given the white hand. And these were his two signs. The stick he used in his craft as a Shepherd, and the hand which he used in the craft. Both of them acquired Divine power:

https://youtu.be/64CFU7tTKFU?t=319 (5:19-7:15)
 
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Michael Sternbach

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Hi Michael

Many years back I thought how wonderful it could be with Alchemy/Hermetics helping
millions and millions of people all over the world (like most beginners to this art I also
was quite naive) ... but now I have a clearer and some what sadder view.

From the very large numbers of people that take an interest in Alchemy that only after
a short time of weeks, months or years they soon fall from this path and find other things
to amuse themselves with i.e. night clubs, rock climbing, stamp collecting, ping pong, etc, etc.

And that's ok .... because now I have a better understanding of why there is such a
very, very small number of adept alchemists in the world today.

Perhaps one day in the distant future there may be more ???

Hi Black

This might be the case in the not-so-far future, actually. I, for one, predict a rising interest in Alchemy in the coming years, as the world enters the Age of Aquarius, whose beginning is marked by the year 2030. I make this statement not least in light of the remarkable transits of the slower moving planets in the period leading up to that threshold.

Granted, the number of practitioners - let alone of those, that actually achieve something of wider significance - may always remain comparatively small, but hey, there is so much more to Alchemy.

Alchemy is nothing but applied Hermetics after all. It is breathing in and giving expression to the Hermetic cosmos that I mentioned before. So there is our practical art on the one hand, and the natural philosophy that provides the context of the latter on the other.

This refers to a world view that reintegrates science with spirituality. That kind of conception is a much needed alternative to Trans-Humanism and related movements, which are in fact the epithome of a materialistic science and technology that separates matter from spirit and in fact denies the real existence of the latter.

Hermetics is intrinsically designed to bridge that gap like no other school of thought that I am aware of. Hence my optimism. :)
 

Kibric

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Well said.

Transhumanism is already here. We dont notice it.
There is already a growing data set parallel to your life.
It can predict more you feed it.
Your conciousness has already been simulated in the most basic way.
By 2030 your data set will be able to simulate you and your responses with a scary realism.
Uploading your ghost was futurolgy. We gave ourselves this terrible idea.
 

black

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Hi Black

This might be the case in the not-so-far future, actually. I, for one, predict a rising interest in Alchemy in the coming years, as the world enters the Age of Aquarius, whose beginning is marked by the year 2030. I make this statement not least in light of the remarkable transits of the slower moving planets in the period leading up to that threshold.


Hi Michael

Your prediction sounds positive, I would like to be here to see that if possible.
 

black

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I have personally found all the detail I could want on this topic in the Koran.

HiTannur

An interesting read and from my recent studies I felt the need to view a few topics in the Quran.
To my understanding the Quran speaks of Allah as the Creator of man .... but in these
translations it is written as "WE".

You mentioned having read the Quran so I wondered what your take on this is ?

This may all sound a bit off topic (Sorcery For Immortality And Transmutation Of Metals)
but in an off handed way is still related to it.


Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the Holy Quran. This page shows seven parallel translations in English for the 26th verse of chapter 15 (sūrat l-ḥij'r).

Sahih International: And We did certainly create man out of clay from an altered black mud.
Pickthall: Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered,
Yusuf Ali: We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
Shakir: And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape.
Muhammad Sarwar: We have created the human being out of pure mud-moulded clay
Mohsin Khan: And indeed, We created man from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.
Arberry: Surely We created man of a clay of mud moulded,
 

Andro

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in these translations it is written as "WE".
It's common for start-ups to have a small team of founders at the core, not just one person. However in many cases it's only one of them who gets most of the glory (and money).

As above, so below.

Magick can also benefit from being practiced in a small group. Three people is sort of ideal IMO. Not sure about tantric sexual stuff though.
 

Tannur

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HiTannur

An interesting read and from my recent studies I felt the need to view a few topics in the Quran.
To my understanding the Quran speaks of Allah as the Creator of man .... but in these
translations it is written as "WE".

You mentioned having read the Quran so I wondered what your take on this is ?

This may all sound a bit off topic (Sorcery For Immortality And Transmutation Of Metals)
but in an off handed way is still related to it.
Dear black, please see the answer here:

https://seekersguidance.org/answers...es-allah-refer-to-himself-as-we-in-the-quran/