Secrecy & Alchemical Initiations

[Pilgrim]

I read the following today which explains why secrecy is/was necessary for those who have the Stone:

If this secret is a gift of God, some will say it must doubtless be placed in the category of the talents
which God bestows and which must not be buried. If Philosophers are people so pious, so charitable,
why do we see so few good works on their part? A single one, Nicolas Flamel, in France, has built
and endowed churches and hospitals. These monuments exist today in the sight of all Paris. If there
are other Philosophers, why do they not follow such a good example? Why do they not cure the sick?
Why do they not relieve the families of honest people overwhelmed with misery? I answer, that one
does not know all the good done in secret. One must not do good and then publish it at the sound of
the trumpet; the left hand, according to the precept of our Saviour, Jesus Christ, must not know the
good which the right hand doeth. It was not known, until after the death of Flamel, who was the
author of these good works. The hieroglyphic figures, which he had placed in the Cemetery of the
Innocents, presented only that which was pious and in conformity with religion. He himself lived
humbly, without ostentation, and without giving the least sign of the secret which he possessed.
Moreover, there were in those times greater facilities for doing good than now.
Philosophers are not so common as physicians. They are few in number. They possess the secret of
curing all maladies. They are not lacking the desire to do good to all the world; but this world is so
perverse that it is dangerous for them to try it. They would do so, at the risk of their lives. Will they
cure some one as by miracle? A murmur will be heard among the Physicians and the People; and
even those who most doubted the existence of the Philosophical Remedy will then suspect that there
is such a thing. This man will be followed; his actions will be observed; the report will spread; the
avaricious, the ambitious will pursue him to discover his secret. Then, what can he hope for but
persecutions, or voluntary exile from his country?


"The experience of the Cosmopolite and of Philalethes proves this sufficiently. “We are,” says the
latter, “enveloped in malediction and infamy; we cannot enjoy tranquilly the society of our friends;
whosoever will discover who we are, will wish either to extort from us our secret, or to plan our ruin,
if we refuse to reveal it to them. The world today is so wicked and so perverse, interest and ambition
so dominate men that all their actions have no other aim but the satisfaction of these passions. Do we
wish, as the Apostles, to perform works of mercy, one returns to us evil for good. I have made the
trial of this lately in some distant places. I have cured, as by miracle, some dying ones, abandoned by
Physicians; and to escape persecution, I have been obliged, more than once, to change my name, my
dress, to shave my hair and my beard, and to flee under cover of the night.” Yet, to what greater
dangers would a Philosopher not expose himself, if he should make the transmutation? although he
should intend to make use of the gold for a very simple life, and for the benefit of those in need. This
gold, finer and more beautiful than common gold, as they say it is, will soon be recognized. By this
mark alone, one will suspect the bearer, perhaps even of counterfeiting money. What frightful
consequences would a Philosopher, charged with such a suspicion, not have to fear?"

A TREATISE
ON
The Great Art


Ironically, if they DID just get on and share it with everyone else then none of the above would be a problem. No need for anyone to be aggressive towards them if they just shared the Stone with everyone. It's a self-fulfilling outcome.

Selfishly keep it for oneself = a life of looking over your shoulder and possible death/murder if you are found out

Share with all humanity = end of human suffering and all rejoice because all are now equal. Live freely and happily with all.

 

[ghetto alchemist]

Share with all humanity = end of human suffering and all rejoice because all are now equal. Live freely and happily with all.

Do you not yet realise that the philosophers stone can be used to make a nuclear bomb?

I don’t even think it’s that difficult, probably just has to be surrounded by a conventional explosive charge.
It might even be possible using only black powder inside a pipe bomb.

Would you really imagine a life free and happy if the power to destroy us all lay in the hands of every person, including the worst amongst us?
But it’s not only the fear of societal destruction that’s the problem....nuclear explosion is THE ONLY 3D weapon which reaches it’s destructiveness into 4D/5D space, which means that the souls of humans and animals can be damaged or even be obliterated entirely.

The power to destroy souls can’t be placed in the hands of the general populace.

Of course, one day there will come a time where everyone in society is able to be trusted with this knowledge, we’re just not quite there yet.

 

[Awani]

I read an alchemical work this very week which implored those with the knowledge to remain quiet and secret . . .

Alchemy is not the answer. It’s at best a hobby. Unless the term is used as a verb, then perhaps yes it could be part of the truth.

 

[Pilgrim]

Do you not yet realise that the philosophers stone can be used to make a nuclear bomb?

I don’t even think it’s that difficult, probably just has to be surrounded by a conventional explosive charge.
It might even be possible using only black powder inside a pipe bomb.

Would you really imagine a life free and happy if the power to destroy us all lay in the hands of every person, including the worst amongst us?
But it’s not only the fear of societal destruction that’s the problem....nuclear explosion is THE ONLY 3D weapon which reaches it’s destructiveness into 4D/5D space, which means that the souls of humans and animals can be damaged or even be obliterated entirely.

The power to destroy souls can never be placed in the hands of the general populace, this will always eventually end in disaster.
This is why in the past and present, this secret has only been available to the very best and very worst amongst us. [Ironically it’s also safe for the worst humans to know it because they also desire to preserve the world and keep the secret.]

Your stance stems from fear which itself is predicated on the current status of humanity.

For example why do you talk about "the worst among us"?

What categorises such people as "worst" or worse than yourself?

The world and society is the way it is because of the imbalance of wealth, resources and technology. The minority have the majority of wealth and power and keep the great secrets for themselves. Those they consider "the worst" or those they consider "the Great Unwashed" or as the Brotherhood sadly discriminates them as "Cowans" are simply just humans whose lives have been placed into their current state of disadvantage. They are not hogs and they are no worse or better than anyone else. We are all humans. All suffering, all spiritual beings trapped in mortal bodies.

If everyone had the Stone then everyone would be fulfilled, they would not want for anything particularly. Their lives would be dramatically changed. Society as we know it would radically change. No banks, no fraudulent Fractional Reserve Banking. No Pharmaceuticals preying on humanity keeping us all sick and dependent on them.

Why would anyone need to think about creating a nuclear bomb?

People think about it at the moment because humanity is oppressed. Powerful collectives want to stay in control and seize land and resources by force, causing wars, not caring who gets killed along the way. This creates natural enemies. Terrorist groups and so on.

Give humanity the Stone and everything changes.

People just fear that change. Especially those who currently enjoy wealth, health and power and don't want to give it up.

Ultimately though, it IS going to happen. Eden will be restored on Earth imo. So I guess you have a choice to make. You can be part of the collective that perpetuates the suffering of humanity and keeps the secrets for themselves, or you can be one of the instigators of the great restoration of Eden which frees everyone.

Whether there's any long term consequence of being the former I can not say.

 

[Pilgrim]

Alchemy is not the answer. It’s at best a hobby. Unless the term is used as a verb, then perhaps yes it could be part of the truth.

Alchemy is simply Nature performed efficiently in a well prepared environment. Nature is truth.

Humanity has grown as it has discovered more and more about what Nature is and how she operates.

Information and knowledge are king

It's wrong to keep important knowledge from others.

 

[ghetto alchemist]

Give humanity the Stone and everything changes.

People just fear that change. Especially those who currently enjoy wealth, health and power and don't want to give it up.

You’re here in this world.
If you think it’s so important, then why don’t you be the person to change it?
It only takes one person.

Find the stone, and share it with everyone.
Make it your life’s work.
Maybe you can go public right away, get some collaboration and increase your chances of success.
It can’t be that difficult, just do it.

 

[Denii]

Hello everyone, there’s so many different topics been discussed here. I just want to weigh in on a few things . I’m new to alchemy and most people who are drawn to the true art are either severely sick and desperately trying to heal another are simply despised the suffering if others in this world. What missing is loyalty, compassion, honesty and trust. The alchemy sages of old were selfish and pompous. They remind me of that half naked creature in “The lord of the ring “. Everyone need to prove how right and intelligent they are. I know all of you are capable of creating the stone and it’s not nice knowing a method that works but many covetous with your knowledge. Yes you don’t have to help but understand you were once students. The sages of old took long to make the stone so they believe others should suffer the same fate. Telling others the starting matter doesn’t mean, the one receiving it will know how to use it or create anything from it. It’s 2023 let’s bring back the golden age where alchemy was thought and no one had to hide. Only a selective few will join because patients is rare nowadays.

 

[Pilgrim]

Hello everyone, there’s so many different topics been discussed here. I just want to weigh in on a few things . I’m new to alchemy and most people who are drawn to the true art are either severely sick and desperately trying to heal another are simply despised the suffering if others in this world. What missing is loyalty, compassion, honesty and trust. The alchemy sages of old were selfish and pompous. They remind me of that half naked creature in “The lord of the ring “. Everyone need to prove how right and intelligent they are. I know all of you are capable of creating the stone and it’s not nice knowing a method that works but many covetous with your knowledge. Yes you don’t have to help but understand you were once students. The sages of old took long to make the stone so they believe others should suffer the same fate. Telling others the starting matter doesn’t mean, the one receiving it will know how to use it or create anything from it. It’s 2023 let’s bring back the golden age where alchemy was thought and no one had to hide. Only a selective few will join because patients is rare nowadays.

The One Ring corrupted all who possessed it. Only the strongest few who followed the light were able to withstand its draw and seductive powers. The old alchemists lived in a very different era. They were killed and persecuted for their knowledge. They didn't have the internet to share their knowledge instantly with millions of people. So they encoded their secrets in various works, documents, paintings and tunes/songs and so on. I agree with you though. It is time for those with the Stone to stand up and be counted and rid this world of suffering and domination by wicked people.

 

[Denii]

The One Ring corrupted all who possessed it. Only the strongest few who followed the light were able to withstand its draw and seductive powers. The old alchemists lived in a very different era. They were killed and persecuted for their knowledge. They didn't have the internet to share their knowledge instantly with millions of people. So they encoded their secrets in various works, documents, paintings and tunes/songs and so on. I agree with you though. It is time for those with the Stone to stand up and be counted and rid this world of suffering and domination by wicked people.

Thank you for understanding and for giving me a new perspective on why the old sages did what they did. I realise that many people don’t believe in the true alchemical science, I spend years searching the internet and only just come across this forum, so even if we share it’s still a few of us (Which is good cause there’s too much evil minds). All of you are 2024 Sages , you all are a rare breed, and I say this because no one on this forum are looking to profit from it. I hope one day we can use the brilliance of your minds to start seeking out treasure and loss relics ( to fund research and larger alchemical projects). If you understand the moral of the movie “The fight club “ then you’ll get my point. Life is a lesson for all of us if we want to argue let’s just fuck with the wicked , by using astronomy, astrology, different divination techniques etc. there’s countless cities buried under the earth as well as hidden caves etc . Since many of you already extending your lives let find a long term goals…
P.s I’m still at the beginning stage of my art but I still can do research and I’m sure other novice with integrity and moral will definitely willing to do research because the world is bigger than what these people tell us.

 

[Dragon's Tail]

Or... they hide it in secrecy because they didn't have it, sold fake gold for profit, and if they were caught they were executed.

...

just to toss a little bit of alternative theory into the mix. You can't predict people's motivations, you can only judge their actions.

 

[Jimmy Rig]

I thought this did a good job of describing the first "step" into initiation.
Some of my own quick thoughts about "initiation" below.
Its a beginning of a new journey into a next phase of evolution or existence.
There is a period of straddling the states of being; such as when we go from animal consciousness to human consciousness(the individuation); there is an overlap between animalistic and human qualities; the same applies when we go from human consciousness to spiritual consciousness; there is an overlap between human qualities and spiritual qualities; at some future point we can expect that the advanced initiate will obtain some degree of mastery and assume more spiritual qualities than human.
(these are just thoughts on the matter.. so its an opinion.)


INITIATION, HUMAN AND SOLAR
BY
ALICE A. BAILEY
Short excerpt on Initiation from page. 7

Four words defined.
When we speak of Initiation, of wisdom, of knowledge, or of the probationary Path,
what do we mean? We use the words so glibly, without due consideration of the
meaning involved. Take, for instance, the word first mentioned. Many are the
definitions, and many are the explanations to be found as to its scope, the preparatory
steps, the work to be done between initiations, and its result and effects. One thing
before all else is apparent to the most superficial student, and that is, that the
magnitude of the subject is such that in order to deal with it adequately one [Page 10]
should be able to write from the viewpoint of an initiate; when this is not the case,
anything that is said may be reasonable, logical, interesting, or suggestive, but not
conclusive.

The word Initiation comes from two Latin words, in, into; and ire, to go; therefore, the
making of a beginning, or the entrance into something. It posits, in its widest sense,
in the case we are studying, an entrance into the spiritual life, or into a fresh stage in
that life. It is the first step, and the succeeding steps, upon the Path of Holiness.
Literally, therefore, a man who has taken the first initiation is one who has taken the
first step into the spiritual kingdom, having passed out of the definitely human
kingdom into the superhuman. Just as he passed out of the animal kingdom into the
human at individualisation, so he has entered upon the life of the spirit, and for the
first time has the right to be called a "spiritual man" in the technical significance of
the word.

 

[ggkvarma]

I’m getting older, I am waiting for someone suitable god fearing member to come to India to learn the art of making the secret solvent and the white stone. I couldn’t proceed further due to my court property litigations. If anyone from this forum is interested I will show him everything, I actually wished @Schmuldvich to come, as he is intelligent and a good person.

 

[ghetto alchemist]

I am waiting for someone suitable god fearing member to come to India to learn the art of making the secret solvent and the white stone

if anyone from this forum is interested I will show him everything,

This is a very generous offer.
Just curious to ask if there would be any conditions placed upon your students in return.
Eg: would there be a secrecy order based on whatever you teach?
would your student/s be expected to compensate you in any way?

 

[Pilgrim]

I’m getting older, I am waiting for someone suitable god fearing member to come to India to learn the art of making the secret solvent

Where did you personally learn the art of making the secret solvent?

 

[ggkvarma]

Hello Andro, it’s not urine or something related to the animal or vegetable kingdom. The water is derived from the mineral kingdom and moreover, it is derived from the best and noble metals. Yes, the agents which help to draw the water are sometimes of the vegetable and animal kingdom, but not necessarily, there are agents in the mineral kingdom also, but not that efficient.

I promised to reveal the method of drawing the water.

Tests I made (which the sages laid out) are:

1) Pure Silver beads the size of a gram or little more, than that will dissolve in a fraction of a second.

2) When slowly warmed, it congeals itself into a hard material and turns into many colors after many eagles, i.e. it goes up and down several times.

3) It penetrates a copper plate like wax on paper.

4) When mixed with gold powder, after two months the white stone is born.

That much I can teach. Further, you will have to endeavor to produce the red stone.

All I want is a promise that the secret is not revealed even to your sons, this is used for only to help the poor who are eligible, not drug addicts in Philadelphia. Food, education, healthcare is all people need.

And one more condition in return is, 50% of the stone should be given to me first time and the last, later I will multiply it.

I will not discuss this on the internet, you will have to come personally to learn. It may take one or two days.

 

[Andro]

Hello Andro, it’s not urine or something related to the animal or vegetable kingdom.

Not sure why you're replying to me... See the questions from Ghetto and from Pilgrim...

 

[ggkvarma]

Not sure why you're replying to me... See the questions from Ghetto and from Pilgrim ...

Hello Andro, a little confusion, the message was meant for them.

 

[Pilgrim]

All I want is a promise that the secret is not revealed even to your sons

Presumably you made the same promise to whoever taught you the secret, so how come you are willing to break that promise?

If you're willing to break that promise to one person why not to everyone?

this is used for only to help the poor who are eligible, not drug addicts in Philadelphia. Food, education, healthcare is all people need.

The more people you tell, the more poor people can be helped.

And one more condition in return is, 50% of the stone should be given to me first time and the last, later I will multiply it.

Why would you need anyone else's stone? Surely you have your own and the ability to multiply it?

 

[Lux Natura]

this is used for only to help the poor who are eligible, not drug addicts in Philadelphia. Food, education, healthcare is all people need.

I've often wondered what it is about the nature of man and society, that we relegate drug addicts to the lowest possible "caste" in the social structure? There are, in many circles, especially those that tend to lean right of center politically, where the drug addicts are demonized and dehumanized, and viewed as a general scourge on society, and are not given the right to be thought about and viewed as living sentient creatures that are stuck in a world of suffering. This dehumanization of their illness allows for not only the general social apathy towards them, but, again, in many circles that lean right of center, the calls for their wide-scale extermination.

If we cannot aim to help the poorest of the poor, the lowest of the low, and not define that concept through the metric of money, but understand it as meaning "those who need help the most", then what the fuck are we even doing on this planet?

I would surmise that the lowly degenerate drug addicts need the philosopher's stone much more than any of us. We, who are comfortable in our lairs like little princes in castles, are not fit to pass judgement on their suffering - and when we do, we are merely passing judgment on our own lack of understanding.

 

[Pilgrim]

You're right that those people have an illness and need help. The problem is that the real type of help costs £1000s which they don't have and the State won't pay for it. The State permits the drug pusher to push their drugs whilst pretending / making token efforts to take down crime gangs. It all comes back to money.

Until the Stone is released to all, this is how things will remain. Crazy how so many just can't see this.

 

[Lux Natura]

Until the Stone is released to all, this is how things will remain. Crazy how so many just can't see this.

I myself see that the classic "down and out drug addict" has more in common with the common working man than either cares to admit, except in the case of the "drug addict", the manifestations are more visibly apparent and are expressed in a direct form, whereas in the working man, the manifestations are often more subtle, and they appear in ways that are normalized or explained away by social conventions, and the effects are less apparent due to a strong cultural norm of hiding ones true self from others in public.

In both cases we have humans that are not having their needs met, and the fine details of comparing the legitimacy or methods by which they meet their needs, or attempt to, I think is an exercise that devolves into judgmental thinking and moral bias. Unfortunately, the whole thing is political in nature primarily due to fundamentalist fears driving voting patterns when it comes to right of center politics, and I don't think it's necessarily about money, as the socialized costs of the failed war on drugs, and all the associated fallout, greatly overshadows the costs it would take to rejig the system to provide the kind of help and support that segment of society needs.

Either way, the end result of the alchemical process is transformation and transmutation, is it not? I believe you can attempt to give the stone to anyone, but not everyone will receive it. In fact I think very few can receive it. So it matters little to who it is "given". On a purely material / chemical / recipe basis, and both in a metaphorical / spiritual basis.

As for promises made by people, talk is cheap. I've only been on this forum for a few years, but I've been in various metaphysical and occult groups as far back as bulletin boards and the first newsgroups. This concept, of "someone far away promising to teach you the ultimate hidden secrets, but their situation right now is kinda dire, often a bit down and out, often need a bit of money, often have the knowledge but the not the means, often have some chaos in their family situations, etc etc, but the promise to teach you the secret, but you must keep it a secret, and they only want a bit of something else back in return" is something I have seen over and over again.

I'm not saying that in this case it is false - it is like the spam emails of an African king who needs to transfer $10 billion to your bank account to take the money out of the country, but they first need you to transfer $1000 to theirs to clear up a small issue of them not being able to access that $10 billion, but afterwards they will reward you. Perhaps, once, in those trillions of spam emails sent, there once was a single legitimate event, where what was said was true, but no one took them up on their offer, and now that near infinite wealth has been lost forever. Then again, perhaps not.

 

[ggkvarma]

Hello Lux, these drug addicts they can never come to the main stream, many times they were given jobs and shelter, but they don’t want to work.

 

[ggkvarma]

Hello Lux, I consider this art as my own mother, and it is not for sale. You have little knowledge of Indian teachers, I only follow the rules laid down by our gurus.

God has many ways to make people lose this art, our own doubts and logical thoughts are the result of karmic manipulations.

 

[ggkvarma]

Hello Pilgrim, I never demanded any money from anyone. In India boys are becoming beach bums, and they busy with computers, pubs, etc. Nobody is into this art, moreover nobody believes, like yourself you have your own doubts. I have plenty of assets and I don’t need any money from others, but I have spent money on this art, you can’t imagine, and my precious youth, 10 years of reading and experimentation, without jobs and no business. I got this by the grace of my gurus and god.

Don’t over-question me asking to teach everyone.

 

[Lux Natura]

Hello Lux, I consider this art as my own mother, and it is not for sale. You have little knowledge of Indian teachers, I only follow the rules laid down by our gurus. God has many ways to make people lose this art, our own doubts and logical thoughts are the result of karmic manipulations.

Hi Ggkvarma,

Whatever it is, I hope you find what you are looking for. The journey towards seeking that which we need, or think we need, is an indispensable part of the experience, and whether that thing we are seeking for is the next hit to stave off withdrawal, or seeking someone to pass our knowledge onto, it is still bound within that cycle of seeking to fulfill a need in order to bring us towards what we imagine is a more "solar" nature. This need exists outside of symbolic systems, so it doesn't matter what system of symbolism we attribute to it, or use to try to explain some aspect of the intricacies of it.

I do think though that when the solar nature is manifested, or when the philosophers stone has been made, (and this phrase here can be said is so many different ways, as each system of symbolism has its own way of saying it) the goal of the work then is of a total different nature altogether, and no longer serves to further these kinds of personal needs.

Good luck to you in your works.