Secrecy & Alchemical Initiations

[solomon levi]

I've had something on my mind lately.
I generally don't hold on to things - I notice them, observe them, let them pass...
and then start afresh with beginner's mind.
But something has caught my attention, causing me to alter my course.
I don't believe in secrets really - not that I wouldn't keep one if you asked me too.
I do/must believe in agreements.
But to me, knowledge does not belong to one and is meant to be given.
But then it can't really be given to a mind that has not matured to accept it.
And that happens through work.

So I had intended to divulge whatever I find, not as truth, but as yet one more possibility.
But I have seen in life, my own and others, that only through personal effort,
dreaming, attention, contemplation and action, does one find their heart's desire.

I'm using too many words...
in short - taller, older, more experienced trees can often deprive younger trees
of much needed sunlight that allows growth.
This happens too if one just gives another the answer/solution - you wouldn't do
your child's homework for them... they wouldn't learn anything that way.

So basically, if my posts are not as open and sharing as they have been in the past,
it isn't that I'm withholding secret knowledge, or that I believe in elite groups or any ego stuff like that.
It's just that there's alot of new people and some "old" people who I wouldn't want
to deprive or deny the pleasure of working for oneself and finding for oneself.
When it happens that way, we don't have to worry about whether one is worthy
or not or whether mature enough or deserving... work gives one the proper state of
gratitude, wisdom, proper use and respect, etc.

solomon

 

[rockfate1111]

I think your right on here. I find many people want to rob themselves of the journy of life. They beg for someone to just hand them a fish instead of asking simeone to teach them how to fish. Right on!

 

[Joy]

Solomon levi,

Sure, I understand what you mean, we have to find the answers ourselves, this is
what I have done most of my live. Very helful were symbol hints.

When I will open up here a topic, it will be about something I work on, or try to
understand, if anyone has to say anything about it,.. great, if not ... also ok, cause
mostly when I write it down, some morning dew falls on me and gives an idea, where
to search.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts ... Joy

 

[Salazius]

You're right indeed Solomon (and other),

Things are more fun when we seek and find by ourselves. Alchemy must be fun. It is also very personal. Too much guidance and then, you lost your track.

It 's a great joy to find a new way, a new method that give results. But for that we also need to know things, and masters, friends of Art, books are good for the basics (and further sometime), once you got the theory, you can walk your way more independently.

 

[Seth-Ra]

I too am in agreement with this. It reminded me of the post i made about "my" emblem, and i said i wouldnt pretend to own anything, especially knowledge (nature tells all), i put what i can out there, because it works for me, and if one doesnt understand, then they must grow (as i try to word it as best and simplest way i know how). I personally have had several "lightbulb" moments in the Art, and just the feeling of it "clicking"... if someone had of just told me, it would have ruined it.

The trick is to listen to nature, and your intuition/subconscious self, when the time is right, you will not only know, you will also understand, and it is that understanding that is the gold of the journey.

 

[solomon levi]

I know that some people feel strongly about keeping the secrets of alchemy.
I'm not one of them - maybe I'll change my mind as I learn more.
But I am a person of integrity, so if you share something with me, I'll
keep it secret if you like.

That said, I think I know where the tradition of secrecy came from, and
I don't consider it respectable. I'll explain:

The earliest alchemists have told us that alchemy was first brought to us
by the gods or angels. They also tell us that it was in exchange for sex with
our women whom they found beautiful. You can see these relationships in
biblical writings and the book of Enoch; even Zosimos passes down this
knowledge of alchemy's origin.
In the Codex Marcianus (11th century), one of the earliest alchemical
manuscripts extant, "Isis the Prophetess to her son Horus", Isis tells Horus
that while he was away fighting Set, she was in Hermopolis studying angel
magick and alchemy when she was noticed by a lusty angel. But the angel
could not answer her questions about alchemy, but he bargained to bring
a higher angel who would answer her. He returns the next day with Amnael,
who also finds Isis desireable and agrees to barter alchemical knowledge
for sex. He reveals to her the mystery of his sign/sigil and then makes her
swear the great oath never to reveal these secrets to anyone but her son.

So if we accept these origins of alchemy, it is clear that the secrecy is to keep
humans from becoming gods/god-like (as in the bible) and also to keep them
from knowing the angels names and signs which would make them vulnerable
to a priestesses or magus' control.

Granted, there are other reasons to keep alchemical secrets, some moral,
some for protection, some to prevent abuse... but the obvious origin of this
secrecy comes from beings, the majority of which are not amiable towards
humans, but are rather intent on keeping us in the dark and in control/slavery.
They are the Gnostic archons, if you will. And as Gnostics, we would defy
their restricting oaths.

What do you think?

 

[Joy]

Solomon Levi,

Secrets in Alchemy .... one big reason to keep the mouth closed is, whenever you
tell a person, whats going on, may be in the "Inner Alchemy" or Magic, without
taking drugs ... others would think ... you are insane ... cause they only know their
simple reality.

The next thing ... lab alchemy ... the secrets of a group, sharing till a result is there,
which makes people famous or rich.

The third part is even more interesting ... its about the people, which write books about
Alchemy and Magic ... they collect informations from others bound in secrecy and
suddenly they pop out everything in their books, just put in another piece of cloth,
so nobody can blame them.

If we want realy to know and learn, all we need is to follow the deep burning flame
inside and it will open all the doors. .... Joy

 

[LeoRetilus]

Interesting Solomon, one of the ultimate goals in the Golden Dawn tradition is The Knowledge and Conversation of Your Holy Guardian Angel, now most know of Aliester Crowley as a stark raving mad gay drug addict , but at one point he claimed to have contacted his, whom he also believed to one of the Secret Chiefs, he sketched its appearance, it was an Alien Gray! This was long before the first aliens or ufos were sighted. Could it be that they are not very Holy at all and that their purpose is to control humanity through our subconscience and that alchemy is a way to liberate ourselves, a gift perhaps to those who have found favor. Or could it be that there is war in the heavens between good and evil entites vying for the control of mans soul. It is said King Solomon could summon entities and even Belial himself and make him dance before him. If we look at the Greater Key (Clavicula Salomonis) we see a multiple series of sigils ruled by each planet, most contain the names of certain groups of angels who preside over that which we desire to accomplish, once they are shown these sigils they must oblige, could it be that they are compelled to do so because we know their names. Socrates also believed he made contact with his "higher" self and called it a daemon, an excellent aphorism can be seen in , "The Golden Compass", could it be that man is meant to be the master?

 

[Agni]

I treat it the same way as you, Solomon. If I do have a discussion with someone about alchemy, if someone is sharing with me, and if this person doesn't want me do talk about it with other people, I do respect it totally, and I won't talk. I also would like the other person not to talk about this or that, if I think it behaves better to the situation or the subject we're talking about.

But i do personally think that there is one thing we should not forget: Alchemy, and maybe also cause of it's secrecy seems to make quite a big difference in times of massculture, where even the philosophical and spirtitual teachings are just part of a big commercial marketing strategy (Of course this also has some good sides, it's really easy to get a book, or whatever you need for working ect).


Solomon Levi wrote "Granted, there are other reasons to keep alchemical secrets, some moral,
some for protection, some to prevent abuse... but the obvious origin of this
secrecy comes from beings, the majority of which are not amiable towards
humans, but are rather intent on keeping us in the dark and in control/slavery.
They are the Gnostic archons, if you will. And as Gnostics, we would defy
their restricting oaths"

I'm not sure about that, actually ... maybe in som cases.
As you've also said: for protection for example - alchemy, cause of it's secrecy and symbols is quite inscrutable ... If you tell someone bout certain processes it can be really dangerous, if this person doesn't know how to handle it, so ...
And yes, the moral aspect (although i' not a big friend of morals ... laughing) ... I think if someone is just in it for making gold, or just longing for power, ect. , he can bring himself into quite big troubles ... i can't explain this aspect any further, it just seems to be like that.


Agni

 

[Zephyr]

now most know of Aliester Crowley as a stark raving mad gay drug addict

Mr. C does deserve some criticism, but that's a bit of an uncharitable description, no? And I think he had several wives.

*Z*

 

[Hephælios]

Honestly it depends on what you think you have found- and if in fact it is worth secreting away. The tale you relayed about Isis is (to me) far more indicative of the alchemical process then anything the metaphorical angels parleyed...especially seeing as they came from the firmament of heaven.

She relates that "after a certain passing of the kairoi and the necessary movement of the heavenly sphere, it happened that one of the angels who dwelt in the first firmament saw me from above. . ." The angel, a being of the lower realm between the earth and the moon, is enflamed by passion, but can't answer her questions about alchemy.

Sendivogius - The New Chemical Light: But because this most pure fire now occupies the firmament, and surrounds the throne of God, the waters have been condensed into a body beneath it; and thus the sky is formed, while the water which now forms the atmospheric air and the lower firmament is due to the action of a lower and grosser fire.

Excepting a small portion pertaining to the particulars of archemy - I've seen nothing worth keeping secret... and even those few things are meager accomplishments at that.

 

[solomon levi]

Hi Joy.
Yeah, I think the best reason for secrecy is simply keeping the 'flask'
hermetically sealed until the desired result is achieved. That is, talking
about a thing, especially before it has occurred, can disperse the energy.
But for the greater part, I don't believe people protect alchemy; I think
it protects itself - true alchemy is directly tied in to one's consciousness,
so abundance, for example, cannot be had by a greedy personality (greed
being a product of lack, not enough...) I know it's not that way in the social
conscious world, but I think it is in alchemy where we are dealing with the
quantum realm and not so much mass to mass.
We've all heard of scandals against alchemists, ike the guy that starting
making and selling Starkey's pills, or the same thing happened to Glauber.
But you never hear of people stealing the Philosophers' stone or selling it,
because I don't think it can happen. Hudson tried to mass produce it and
sell it to people and his facilities had a major acid spill and were shut down.
There are angels associated with these higher products and they will
not allow them to be abused.
The Essene is a very generous soul - he would give the gold ormus to almost
anyone. But when the angel did not approve, he would be unable to make it.
(After taking the white gold for a time, the Essene could see the angel and
communicate with it. Hudson mentioned the same thing about the man
who was his 'guinea pig'.)
I mean really, humans could not have protected alchemy for this long.
There must be something supernatural to it.

I'm not saying that if I made the red lion today, I would tell everybody
tomorrow - I wouldn't. It's just the smaller things, the beginnings...
setting people on a good path.



Leo,
Yes. You're feeling me. That's exactly what I suspect.


Hey Agni,
I guess I accept the mass consciousness/internet, etc, as a sign of the times.
Things must be going that way for a reason... with the creators' blessing,
never against it.
Leo mentioned Aleister Crowley... well, another similar personality - possible
genius, possible megalomaniac - Carlos Castaneda claimed that he was the
last of his lineage and it was now spirit's will that Toltec sorcery come out
into the open... thus writing the books, Tensegrity, etc... Maybe it's the
same with alchemy. Maybe there is a dawning of a new age where these
things can happen in mass. I think that's what's happening and that the old
rules may not be applicable anymore. If they are, then they'll sustain. I
don't think it's any one person's responsibility.

I'm not a believer in morality myself.



My whole point isn't that we should or shouldn't keep secrets... if anyone
has personal reasons that's cool. I just question tradition and am sharing
knowledge of the history involved here. And maybe inciting a little Gnostic
rebelliousness.

 

[solomon levi]

Wow, posts are coming in fast.
I'll stop replying to everyone and let it flow.
Thanks for all your responses.

Hephaelios - don't think I've seen you around for a while. Glad you're back.
(Forgive me if you've been here and I didn't notice.)


Mr. C went both ways.

 

[LeoRetilus]

Mr. C does deserve some criticism, but that's a bit of an uncharitable description, no? And I think he had several wives.

*Z*

What I meant to say is that is how he is known to popular culture. I for one can seperate the person from his works and I respect his works. I guess you could say the same about a guy like Michael Jackson, deeply troubled and misunderstood, but we can seperate his accomplishments from the man and admire him for his work.
Maybe Mr. C. opened some portals that could not be closed or maybe he prefered they remain open.
Many temptations will abound a man with great potential and great knowledge but the strong and upright will persevere.

 

[Awani]

And as Gnostics, we would defy
their restricting oaths.

Indeed, and this topic has popped up a few times in different guises (some of them):

• Is alchemy too personal?
• The Open Source Movement and the Esoteric

Perhaps Alchemists are coming out of the closet i.e. the great debate... it can't be nothing but healthy in my opinion!

The origins are a combination of keeping people enslaved, but also from fear of being killed... the Church in the old days didn't like boiling kettles that much!

So if we accept these origins of alchemy, it is clear that the secrecy is to keep humans from becoming gods/god-like (as in the bible) and also to keep them from knowing the angels names and signs which would make them vulnerable to a priestesses or magus' control?

Well that is from where we get the Greater and Lesser Mysteries, or if you will the Above or Below (in a sense)... sometimes secrecy is a tool to teach one thing at a time. You got to crawl before you can walk, but I agree people have taken stuff like that literarily causing centuries of unnecessary ignorance.

 

[Ghislain]

Perhaps the process of alchemy is similar to a bird hatching from its shell
or a larva pupating to adult hatching from its cocoon. If you try to help you
could damage the fragile new life and hinder the one thing that is going to
prepare it to cope in its future.

You could therefore consider a forum like this as an incubator

Ghislain

 

[solomon levi]

The origins are a combination of keeping people enslaved, but also from fear of being killed... the Church in the old days didn't like boiling kettles that much!

Yeah, and today we need to fear persecution by government and
pharmaceutical industries (same thing: industrial-pharmaceutical-government...)
perhaps that's the best reason for secrecy.
Although that would be more like showing discretion than secrecy/
oath taking.

 

[solomon levi]

You could therefore consider a forum like this as an incubator

Ghislain

Nice!

 

[ManO]

I have had cause to think about the legitamacy of secrecy from time to time.

If someone has a mind to get into trouble, they will find a way.
and
A truly dangerous man, cannot survive in the world for very long.

Generally there isn't to much to worry about, just always keep your word.

ManO

 

[horticult]

This secrecy is very strange thing.
It does not make any sense. Maybe after...
Consider that it seems never leaked... maybe cuz it can not be uttered & /hail 2 AC/ heared.
Consider that many knew the right material but were not able to do it.
Adepts say that only God will reveal IT, but they say nothing more about God and ultimate things...

 

[solomon levi]

I wonder what God meant to them - which God will reveal it?
I don't know what everyone ascribes to, but the evidence of alien
visitors coming here and messing genetically with the ape-humans
seems pretty convincing to me. And I'm sure that, as mythology
reveals, these are the Gods that people would ask favors of, as it
makes no sense to ask it of the infinite.
I wouldn't want to deal with them, but maybe it's inevitable that
we do, if the Egyptian and Gnostic versions of an afterlife are correct.

On the other hand, seeking the answers from the Divine could be
a code word: sulphur, in greek, is synonymous with 'divine', as is
nitre/ntr in egyptian. I've also noted elsewhere that 'excreatori'
(excrement - urine) is phoenetically similar to 'ex creator' - from
the creator; seek the answer "from the Creator".

???

 

[asket]

hi,
i like your discussions. what do you think about this:
if a philosopher's stone is able to accelerate and strengthen the transformation of an etheric information into a physical information there wouldn't be much time left to rethink an ongoing transformation. that could be the blessing of 10000 prayers spoken in one word or the rage of 10000 suffering souls in one curse. the blessing shouldn't be a problem because i think even blessing something "bad" will make it "better" until it's as "good" or better than the blessing like a synchronization. but the curse thing is quite a problem if we want to avoid something really bad to happen.
that could be a reason to cover alchemy in secrecy. but that's just a thought

 

[solomon levi]

Hi Asket.
You bring up a good point.

Of course I can't say for sure, but I think that our thoughts and
intentions affect ourselves the most - well, I am sure about that -
and I'd like to think that the intention to cast a wicked curse,
the mere planning of something very evil, would make oneself
pretty sick, maybe incapacitated... I don't know. That would be
ideal anyways.
But there are probably ways around it. I'm imagining how there
are healers who are very empathic, and they have to ground
themselves really well in order to not identify too much with their
patient's experiences. Or how if you want to keep something from
a mind-reader or remote viewer, in your mind you should place it
in a safe. Maybe there are ways to curse others without cursing
oneself... hopefully not many people know about them.
Ultimately, there is no such thing as 'others'.

solomon

 

[Joy]

Hey Solomon Levi,

thanks for your answer ... I agree and attach some thoughts.

May be you know Paul Foster Case ... he wrote this smal book:

Esoteric Keys of Alchemy ... which inholds a lot information.

One of the pupils from "Bota" complained, that they had to promise, to
keep all of it , which they learned in their lessons from "Bota" secret, and
than found it a short time later, exposed from the founder.

So all we have to do is to reach a certain level of development, lean back, and
the information, we need to come foward, will just fall on our open mind,
this is the way, it always happend to me.

The "Donum Dei" ... gift of god, is an information channel. We have only to tune
us in .... on the right day, in the right time, on the right level.

Nice Greets ... Joy

 

[solomon levi]

I love his works. I haven't had the fortune of reading that one yet though. I'll do a search for it.
'The True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order' is one of my favs.