. Relationship with an Alchemist... No thanks?!

[Albion]

I enjoyed your post, Fireball.
___________________________

Speaking only for myself: Personal experience has informed me, in no uncertain terms, that I can only lay hold of, or explore, a certain degree of depth after a lengthy period of absolute continence, and that the subtle-energy/ojas loss of sexual activity, along with the attendant deepening of sensory attachments [re-etching of particular physical energy grooves] are, when all is said and done, more or less crippling to who/what I am in my greater design, and therefore utterly contraindicated - for me.

I don’t doubt that others may well draw energy or even revelation through sex. Walter Russell certainly supported this perspective - and only had negative things to say about celibacy. Everyone has to find what works best for them. I’m just presenting this angle [and sharing these links] in case it may benefit someone out there.

http://www.dlshq.org/download/brahmacharya.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Energy-...=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga...rya_purity.htm

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga...ultivation.htm

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga...meditation.htm

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga...on_kung-fu.htm



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[solomon levi]

LOL!
At the end of my black phase, I "lost" my girlfriend, my job, my best friend (other than my girlfriend) and my living space,
not to mention how much of my mind I was losing. This is good stuff.
You are right to connect/associate it with death.

If i can make this any easier, you should realize that as much as you miss her, you're really better off.
We tend to focus on the parts we miss or we liked and ignore the parts that tore us apart -
the parts that were effort, control, unloveable, shadow ("not-me", but it is... "rather be whole than good" - Carl Jung), etc.

The sooner you let this be what it is, the sooner you can attract a better relationship that is more whole.
That's what i learned - a big part of what i learned anyway.

 

[Fireball]

you should realize that as much as you miss her, you're really better off.

Exactly! I have already realized this....

The sooner you let this be what it is, the sooner you can attract a better relationship that is more whole..

Agree on this, with one possible exception. It happens Sooner or Later anyway. You cannot hurry with "letting go" as well as you cannot delay it forever...

 

[Black Sclera]

The interests of women are just as varied as the interests of men and its naive to think they do not concern themselves with such matters as spirituality, philosophy, science ect.
If anyone comes to such a conclusion based upon their interactions with the opposite sex id ask you to then observe the verity of interests in your own sex and more then likely you'll see them to be just as shallow. The dynamics of finding a good mate are the same as finding a good friend, and intellectual similarity's are not as important as compatibility of personality's.

aaaand its also fun to mix with others you wouldn't normally think to mingle with. All ppl and all relationships are unique and you must learn to put your ego aside and revel in the chaos because there is always much to learn.

 

[Awani]

If anyone comes to such a conclusion based upon their interactions with the opposite sex id ask you to then observe the verity of interests in your own sex and more then likely you'll see them to be just as shallow.

The above quote is a very good point, in fact most of the world is pretty shallow...

 

[III]

I feel truely blessed to have deep love relationship with my partner in an Alchemy of LOVE. She was brought to me when she was seeking and I was willing to take on the WORK with her. It was coincidence control that brought us together. We don't "date" as such yet we do many things together. We become closer and closer.

 

[solomon levi]

I have a relationship with an alchemist... myself.
And it's no picnic. But I wouldn't give it up for the world.

There's lots of hard times. The first step is dissolution. To dissolve this gold/apollo/self/ego-identity
is truly a Herculean labor. Often times I've wished there were someone to turn to for help from
this, like a psychiatrist or something. But I know I know myself more than they would.
Besides, there's no helping truth. Truth hurts - like a chick coming out of its eggshell.
Truth is hard. But it's also beautiful. Truth is ios/poison/solvent/vinegar. It will kill the king
when poured in to his ear (Shakespeare). Truth will undo you and this undoing makes relationship
hard. Can you blame them? Hell, I have a hard time relating to myself sometimes. But it's a love affair.
Yin and yang, the known and the unknown, the "hard truth" of mars and the beautiful embrace of venus.
YHVH - "I am that which I am becoming."
Is there any other game?
I can't wait to see what's next.

Last night was a "hard" night. But there was lots of beauty in it too, and deep, deep feeling.
I often feel crazy. And I often feel "this is the best day of my life." I've never been so alive.
And conflicted.

 

[Karl]

I have a relationship with an alchemist... myself.
And it's no picnic. But I wouldn't give it up for the world.

There's lots of hard times. The first step is dissolution. To dissolve this gold/apollo/self/ego-identity
is truly a Herculean labor. Often times I've wished there were someone to turn to for help from
this, like a psychiatrist or something. But I know I know myself more than they would.
Besides, there's no helping truth. Truth hurts - like a chick coming out of its eggshell.
Truth is hard. But it's also beautiful. Truth is ios/poison/solvent/vinegar. It will kill the king
when poured in to his ear (Shakespeare). Truth will undo you and this undoing makes relationship
hard. Can you blame them? Hell, I have a hard time relating to myself sometimes. But it's a love affair.
Yin and yang, the known and the unknown, the "hard truth" of mars and the beautiful embrace of venus.
YHVH - "I am that which I am becoming."
Is there any other game?
I can't wait to see what's next.

Last night was a "hard" night. But there was lots of beauty in it too, and deep, deep feeling.
I often feel crazy. And I often feel "this is the best day of my life." I've never been so alive.
And conflicted.

I'm totally in love with you Solomon Levi. By that i mean I'm totally in love with myself. And I want to annihilate myself. Anyway, thank you, carry on. And I am conflicted. And in love. Conflicted. Destroy. Love.

 

[Andro]

I'm totally in love with you Solomon Levi. By that i mean I'm totally in love with myself. And I want to annihilate myself. Anyway, thank you, carry on. And I am conflicted. And in love. Conflicted. Destroy. Love.

Same here, minus the conflict. No contradiction (for me) between loving oneself and wanting to annihilate oneself. After all, what IS love all about ???

Does the Phoenix LOVE itself ? ? ? ? ?

Sending my love and destruction to both of you (SL and Karl) - and to myself as well...

'choose life'... What a silly slogan... (to me, of course... everyone is entitled to their own brand of choicelessness )

When I feel the 'time' is fit, I will expand more on Alchemical Suicide (not vulgar).

For now (in this context of 'Alchemical Suicide') - I will just say that DNA is not something to be enhanced/upgraded/made superconductive/awakened/etc... These are all new age fantasies...

DNA needs to be DONE AWAY WITH. We, All/One of us, as pure energy EXPRESSION, have NO DNA ! ! !

No matter how enhanced/conductive/etc - DNA is still an impediment.

And if you need an alchemical partner OUTSIDE yourself (NO MATTER what you sexual orientation is) - sorry, but you still have quite a ways to go... (IMEO, of course)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Hello, everyone please welcome the ascended master and his lovely wife.'

ROFL
_____________________

More later. Maybe.

 

[solomon levi]

Thank you so much Karl and Androgynus.
I appreciate the connection.

I'd like to state again, in slightly different words, the challenge of relationship, IMO, just for clarity's sake
and to possibly save others from some confusion and pain.
I think it is a must that one lose one's identity, especially the certainty of knowing yourself,
or others or anything. I do not see that one can become magickal without this fluidity,
this mercurial nature. As Castaneda said (through the character of don Juan),
"There are three precepts of the rule of stalking:
The first precept of the rule is that everything that surrounds us is an unfathomable mystery.
The second precept of the rule is that we must try to unravel these mysteries, but without ever hoping to accomplish this.
The third, that a warrior, aware of the unfathomable mystery that surrounds him and aware of his duty to try to unravel it,
takes his rightful place among mysteries and regards himself as one. Consequently, for a warrior there is no end to the
mystery of being, whether being means being a pebble, or an ant, or oneself. That is a warrior's humbleness.
One is equal to everything."

Well, being a mystery to oneself is a pretty unstable place for the apprentice.
Relationships are based on relating. If you're an unknown, it's difficult for others to relate to you.
And you will probably go through a period of disdain towards the known and people who think they know;
especially anyone trying to tell you who you are while you're endeavoring to be a mystery.
In relationships, security is derived from knowing eachother, being defined.
It's really difficult/rare to do this with another person, even if they are on the same path.

After you've travelled this path of self-deconstruction for a time, you won't blame anyone
for not wanting to do this themselves, or with you. It's not for most people. I wouldn't wish it on anyone,
because it is the end of your life as you knew it, and the reality of that is far more shocking than the words.
I would really be interested in a study of how many "mystics" or whatever we call them, commit suicide.
There are quite a few famous ones well-known, and probably thousands unknown. It's really difficult IMO.
You can't help becoming crazy if you survive, and that crazy doesn't really "belong" in this world,
and yet one's freedom hinges upon it.
In my personal experience, this is the reason for the phrase "terribilis est locus iste" (this place is terrible).

To recap - one's magickal ability is proportionally related to one's fluidity or ability to be without definition/identity,
or ability to merge into the All One, which means you are no longer you (nama-rupa: name and form).
To get there one must go through alchemical death/black phase, Jungian deconstruction and integration,
Castaneda's "sorecerers' description", christian baptism/rebirth, etc... there are many names.
I should say that one is not really going through this death to get to magick - that shouldn't be on your
mind anyway; to try to do this in order to acquire something is not a good idea. You rather do it as a process
of negation IMO, as Krishnamurti taught:
http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-daily-quote/20100405.php

Maybe more later, but I think I covered what I wanted to share.
Thanks for your attention/consideration.

 

[Albion]

Solomon-Levi wrote:

To dissolve this gold/apollo/self/ego-identity
is truly a Herculean labor.

[Please excuse this diversion from the main topic, but just a day or so before you posted the above, a copy of The Little Book of Hercules: Physical Aspects of the Spiritual Path arrived in my mail. I was going to mention it at the time - due to the coincidence - but thought I should read it first. Excellent book. Given your cultivation experience, you might enjoy it.]

http://www.amazon.com/Little-Book-H...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317778378&sr=1-1

 

[solomon levi]

Looks really good!

 

[Alchemical]

If i can make this any easier, you should realize that as much as you miss her, you're really better off.
We tend to focus on the parts we miss or we liked and ignore the parts that tore us apart -
the parts that were effort, control, unloveable, shadow ("not-me", but it is... "rather be whole than good" - Carl Jung), etc.

I recently got back with my girlfriend after we broke up two months ago and it's far from perfect at the moment. When I'm not with her, I miss her, even though when we are together and have a disagreement it fuels very negative emotions in me that I know for a fact is not doing my spiritual journey any good whatsoever. I need to let go, I know this.

My girlfriend has no interest in what I'm doing spiritually. She's Christian and doesn't understand how I can have love and belief in Jesus along with the things I'm doing, like Alchemy for example. I can never find the time to talk to her truly about my path, she is too wrapped up in the world. Constantly on twitter/facebook, shopping, gossiping, whatever... there is nothing wrong with leading a life like that, but it's no good for me.

By the way, I sometimes travel to Glastonbury, England and there my friends is where you will find the weird girls you so desire

 

[Lapis Solaris]

The interests of women are just as varied as the interests of men and its naive to think they do not concern themselves with such matters as spirituality, philosophy, science ect.
If anyone comes to such a conclusion based upon their interactions with the opposite sex id ask you to then observe the verity of interests in your own sex and more then likely you'll see them to be just as shallow. The dynamics of finding a good mate are the same as finding a good friend, and intellectual similarity's are not as important as compatibility of personality's.

aaaand its also fun to mix with others you wouldn't normally think to mingle with. All ppl and all relationships are unique and you must learn to put your ego aside and revel in the chaos because there is always much to learn.

I very much enjoyed this comment, out of all the posts on this thread.

Personally I don't think that practicing Alchemy has ANYTHING to do with how attractive you will be to the opposite sex. It depends on your compatibility with that person. Of course, if they aren't open to understanding such things then this does cause a problem, but that is the person and their choices, and therefore their compatibility with you. The Art that you practice is a part of who you are. What I'm saying is that perhaps it isn't the practice, but rather the personal intent, heart, mind and soul that has decided that you, given the opportunity, would pick up that practice. Therefore if they aren't compatible with who you REALLY are (having been tested, showing the fruit of your true self or what you would do if given the choice), then of course they won't be attracted to you.

And Alchemical, I am also a Christian Alchemist and a female, so coming from my perspective I understand that her view is very common and infact I cannot discuss Alchemy (or anything particularly interesting to do with spirituality because even that is considered "wrong") with most of my friends, especially some females, but also especially males too (as it depends on the person in question, not the gender). I am very careful as to who I discuss things with, and also what I discuss, in consideration to their cultural background and what they've been told. I try to sneak around the subject and what it is associated with, and bring it up as a Truth with the understanding behind that and logic that goes with it. I hope that in this way I will be able to help their understanding and aid them in catching up with the subject without realising what it is in association with. "Getting to them first", in a sense, before it comes from another angle which is completely dogmatic and scripturally out of context (in association with what the Bible teaches).

I couldn't say why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions, what they've been brought up to believe or told by some people (with some sort of back-up to their teachings) and look at things from a different angle in order to fully understand. It is unknown, and therefore I think they're scared to know so put a label on it and that's their justification to remove themselves from any burden of knowing. Don't ask me why they do it, I haven't the slightest idea. All I know is that it is very common and they seem to do it. And this makes it very difficult to find those who don't.

 

[Alchemical]

Personally I don't think that practicing Alchemy has ANYTHING to do with how attractive you will be to the opposite sex. It depends on your compatibility with that person. Of course, if they aren't open to understanding such things then this does cause a problem, but that is the person and their choices, and therefore their compatibility with you. The Art that you practice is a part of who you are. What I'm saying is that perhaps it isn't the practice, but rather the personal intent, heart, mind and soul that has decided that you, given the opportunity, would pick up that practice. Therefore if they aren't compatible with who you REALLY are (having been tested, showing the fruit of your true self or what you would do if given the choice), then of course they won't be attracted to you.

And Alchemical, I am also a Christian Alchemist and a female, so coming from my perspective I understand that her view is very common and infact I cannot discuss Alchemy (or anything particularly interesting to do with spirituality because even that is considered "wrong") with most of my friends, especially some females, but also especially males too (as it depends on the person in question, not the gender). I am very careful as to who I discuss things with, and also what I discuss, in consideration to their cultural background and what they've been told. I try to sneak around the subject and what it is associated with, and bring it up as a Truth with the understanding behind that and logic that goes with it. I hope that in this way I will be able to help their understanding and aid them in catching up with the subject without realising what it is in association with. "Getting to them first", in a sense, before it comes from another angle which is completely dogmatic and scripturally out of context (in association with what the Bible teaches).

I couldn't say why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions, what they've been brought up to believe or told by some people (with some sort of back-up to their teachings) and look at things from a different angle in order to fully understand. It is unknown, and therefore I think they're scared to know so put a label on it and that's their justification to remove themselves from any burden of knowing. Don't ask me why they do it, I haven't the slightest idea. All I know is that it is very common and they seem to do it. And this makes it very difficult to find those who don't.

Thanks for your reply.

I am in now way saying this is just a girl thing. I wouldn't even consider trying to explain anything of my spiritual life to my mates (guy friends). They see my books and just laugh it off and call me weird. It doesn't bother me! But it's totally different when it comes to a relationship, makes things difficult.

 

[Lapis Solaris]

Thanks for your reply.

I am in now way saying this is just a girl thing. I wouldn't even consider trying to explain anything of my spiritual life to my mates (guy friends). They see my books and just laugh it off and call me weird. It doesn't bother me! But it's totally different when it comes to a relationship, makes things difficult.

I apologise for not making myself clear. Mentioning the gender relativism was a more collective response to the earlier posts, as well as to yours. I didn't mean for it all to be referring to you. Only what is relevant.

And I see where you are coming from. I personally have made the resolve to avoid involving myself in a relationship where there are clashing of such views (which, in my eyes, are quite significant).

 

[Andro]

Personally I don't think that practicing Alchemy has ANYTHING to do with how attractive you will be to the opposite sex.

Or to the same sex, or both sexes - depending on one's orientation.

I couldn't say why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions, what they've been brought up to believe or told by some people (with some sort of back-up to their teachings) and look at things from a different angle in order to fully understand. It is unknown, and therefore I think they're scared to know so put a label on it and that's their justification to remove themselves from any burden of knowing. Don't ask me why they do it, I haven't the slightest idea. All I know is that it is very common and they seem to do it. And this makes it very difficult to find those who don't.

You ask: "Why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions?"

Could it be the same reason you wouldn't put aside jesus, your christian belief system or the bible, for example?

I suggest you research the posts of my friend Solomon Levi, the ones where he discusses the issue of belief(s).

I think they're scared to know so put a label on it and that's their justification to remove themselves from any burden of knowing.

Aren't you doing the exact same thing, by putting a label on yourself?

I am also a Christian

For your consideration.

 

[Joy]

Hey together,

We have the same problems like men. There is nobody arround me who has understanding
about alchemy. I don`t talk about it in my family and I learned to live two lives. Joy

 

[Lapis Solaris]

Or to the same sex, or both sexes - depending on one's orientation.

Well the original thread was in relation to whether females would be attracted to Alchemist males, so I was replying to the original topic.

You ask: "Why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions?"

Could it be the same reason you wouldn't put aside jesus, your christian belief system or the bible, for example?

I suggest you research the posts of my friend Solomon Levi, the ones where he discusses the issue of belief(s).

Aren't you doing the exact same thing, by putting a label on yourself?

For your consideration.

My comments about people not putting aside their prejudices and traditions is in relation to understanding others. Christianity is my foundation, which I do not see necessary to abolish in order to see things from a different perspective. In my example I was referring to the attitude by which they stick to the traditional ideas that someone else has come up with such as "mysticism must be a dark or evil art", or something to that effect.
That would be like asking me to stop being friends with someone in order to understand their enemies. I don't have to drop my relationships to do that (I don't think so, anyway).

In this instance, the label is a description of who I am, not a label of what is thought of it. Such as "good" or "evil". That is up to perspective in this case, I believe.

 

[Andro]

Well the original thread was in relation to whether females would be attracted to Alchemist males, so I was replying to the original topic.

The original thread title/topic is: Relationship with an Alchemist... No thanks?!

This does not mean that the issue of having a relationship with an alchemist is limited to opposite genders.

Most people simply default on hetero when speaking generally. This needs to be corrected IMO, unless it's your own personal opposite gender story.

But if you apply the concept in general:

I don't think that practicing Alchemy has ANYTHING to do with how attractive you will be to the opposite sex

Then, you must take into account that there are all sorts of relationships.

My comments about people not putting aside their prejudices and traditions is in relation to understanding others. Christianity is my foundation, which I do not see necessary to abolish in order to see things from a different perspective. In my example I was referring to the attitude by which they stick to the traditional ideas that someone else has come up with such as "mysticism must be a dark or evil art", or something to that effect.
That would be like asking me to stop being friends with someone in order to understand their enemies. I don't have to drop my relationships to do that (I don't think so, anyway).

In this instance, the label is a description of who I am, not a label of what is thought of it. Such as "good" or "evil". That is up to perspective in this case, I believe.

When it fits your comfort zone, you call it your foundation.

When less convenient - you call it prejudice or tradition.

I personally see no difference.

But you are right, it's a matter of perspective

 

[Lapis Solaris]

The original thread title/topic is: Relationship with an Alchemist... No thanks?!

This does not mean that the issue of having a relationship with an alchemist is limited to opposite genders.

Most people simply default on hetero when speaking generally. This needs to be corrected IMO, unless it's your own personal opposite gender story.

But if you apply the concept in general:

Then, you must take into account that there are all sorts of relationships.



When it fits your comfort zone, you call it your foundation.

When less convenient - you call it prejudice or tradition.

I personally see no difference.

But you are right, it's a matter of perspective

"In this thread i want to examine the attractive and repulsive Power of Alchemy from the feminine perspective . Does the Universal science works also on women?" - Coming from a male. I'm not sure what you think, but to me that hints on heterosexuality in this case.

 

[Andro]

"In this thread i want to examine the attractive and repulsive Power of Alchemy from the feminine perspective . Does the Universal science works also on women?" - Coming from a male. I'm not sure what you think, but to me that hints on heterosexuality in this case.

I missed this sentence, I only related to the thread title.. Mea culpa.

Nevertheless, the topic just got a bit wider by adding an extra aspect to it

 

[Ghislain]

Hi it's that devils advocate again...

I am sure that men can have a feminine perspective too...

Can they?

Ghislain

 

[Awani]

I am sure that men can have a feminine perspective too...

That's what psychedelics are for (and cannabis in enough doses), LOL!

 

[Andro]

Could we be converging towards an actual 'Answer' to the question this thread poses?

Is the the Alchemist's ultimate/perfect relationship to be had with his own 'Shadow Self', which we could also refer to as his/her inner 'opposite' gender?

Or, in other words, a perfectly homogenized union between our outwardly expressed Individuality and our inwardly accessed Universality?

A Philosophical relationship in which there is no longer a need for an external (surrogate) stimulus to make us feel 'complete'?