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. Relationship with an Alchemist... No thanks?!

True Initiate

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In this thread i want to examine the attractive and repulsive Power of Alchemy from the feminine perspective . Does the Universal science works also on women?

The Alchemists talk quite a lot of Harmony between male and female but did they ever used and experienced what they preached? Of all old masters only Flamel had a wife and the majority of them were single! Not to mention Basil Valentine who was a monk.

About two years ago when i was picking a book that i ordered via Thalia bookstore (it was Opus Mago from Welling) in Vienna my friends girlfriend was all like: Oh my God! Why on Earth are you reading about Black Magic??? Are you a weirdo???

I replied: No, the book it's actually quite Christian in a sense. She told me that she never had thought that i am religious person (which i am not ) especially because of my looks. ;)

After this incident i had a lot of others and it became quite a puzzle for me why after so much progression in Alchemy, both Internal and External it seemed that my attraction to women and my abbility to comunicate with them was decreasing instead of increasing?

I had expected that my magnetism will increase because i believed naivly that the women are more spiritual than men... :confused:
Compare how many women are present on this forum against how many women are in a jewelry shop around a corner right now? There you will find the answer!

So what's your thoughts about this one. Is being an Alchemist a bleesing or a curse when it comes to women and sacred feminine?
 

True Initiate

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Oh, i forgot... i am a single too!
 

Awani

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I just think you have been looking in the wrong places... perhaps alchemy is too feminine as it is so for a woman it becomes an overdose LOL.

Another theory: the only way for the patriarchy/dominator culture of the world to keep their power is to focus all their brainwashing efforts on the women i.e. they are all standing in jewelry stores.

:cool:
 

Aleilius

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A relationship with an alchemist? Nope!

Alchemists are weird folk for sure. An alchemist is not somebody I'd be dating if I were a brainwashed Barbie zombie female.

However, there are some really awesome females out there that are steeped in occult/ceremonial magick. They are probably your best bet, and might even be highly interested in your alchemy work.

In my opinion, females that would date us are very very rare, and searching for one might be a tough undertaking.

I sympathize with you. I've 24, and I've only had one girlfriend (which ended horribly). This was back when I was around 16. Haven't found the pearl yet, but I'm still searching.
 

Green Lion

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The majority of my alchemist friends are married. For two of them, their wifes are also alchemists.
And I have personnaly found my pearl.
So...
 

True Initiate

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To be honest with you i think the problem is in ourselves or at least in me. The root of the problem is the one of the reasons why i searched for an answer in Alchemy.

I saw Alchemy as a way of life that revolves around finding peace and love within yourself. How can i love someone or even be around someone if i can not even stand myself often. What i hope to accomplish is to help those who feel lost and left out. No matter what you believe, if you do not believe in yourself it will not matter what you believe because you won't have any faith.

Nothing can be achived if you do not believe in yourself
 
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True Initiate

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The majority of my alchemist friends are married. For two of them, their wifes are also alchemists.
And I have personnaly found my pearl.
So...

This is extraordinary i must admit but the women in my friend circle are spiritually dead, especially the younger ones. It can be sometimes very frustrating. :)
 

Aleilius

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To be honest with you i think the problem is in ourselves or at least in me. The root of the problem is the one of the reasons why i searched for an answer in Alchemy.

I saw Alchmy as a way of life that revolves around finding peace and love within yourself. How can i love someone or even be around someone if i can not even stand myself often. What i hope to accomplish is to help those who feel lost and left out. No matter what you believe, if you do not believe in yourself it will not matter what you believe because you won't have any faith.

Nothing can be achived if you do not believe in yourself
What you feel is very human. It is a general human psychological condition. I've not figured out why this subtle form of self-hatred (possibly a strong/loaded word) surfaces in the human psyche.

What you are experiencing reminds me of the psychological meaning of the green lion devouring the sun. Might take a look into this concept if you're interested. I first learned about it earlier this year, but I've known about the weird self-hatred quark that exists in the human psyche for many years. The first time I learned about it was while watching an anime (Evangelion).

It can be tough to learn to love our own self, but it's a part of the Jungian psychological alchemical process. All seekers must face it at some point in their journey.

I wish I could offer some advice, but I really don't know the exact cause behind this schism. Perhaps it's our spirit/soul lashing out at our body because it does not like to be limited/encased in a meat shell. Perhaps it does not like to be aware of the pain & imperfectness of the body, and forms a complex at a very early age. I do not know. What I do know is that we must face this problem alone, and only we can fix it (not another). The healing must come from our own being. Simply becoming aware of it is really a great feat that most are not able to admit/face. It paves the way for healing to being.

Perhaps the only advice I can offer that would be useful is to explore this feeling in greater depth. Poke at it, figure out why it's there, perform self-psychoanalysis, explore it, etc. This is somewhat akin to the black stage. You might feel like you're losing yourself while exploring this in depth, but this is absolutely required: we must lose ourselves completely to find our true essence. The ego will lash out at you, your body (generating self-destructive behavior), and those around you while you carry this out. It may even become overinflated at a certain point, but that's just before the fall (it does so as a protection mechanism).

All pain is temporary. All emotion is illusory. Research the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism. This is what helped me the most.

1. The Nature of Suffering (or Dukkha):
"This is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair are suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering."[5][6]

2. Suffering's Origin (Dukkha Samudaya):
"This is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there, that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination."[5][6]

3. Suffering's Cessation (Dukkha Nirodha):
"This is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, nonreliance on it."[5][6]

4. The Path Leading to the Cessation of Suffering: (Dukkha Nirodha Gamini Patipada Magga)
"This is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering: it is the Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration."[7][8]

I warn you against repressing this feeling. It's the single worst thing you can do. It will only build up, and will poison the mind from the inside out. Repression is the main root of most psychological problems, mental illnesses, etc. It must be faced, understood, and united with its opposite.

All Masters have taken on the pain & sorrow of humanity, and the world. It is an absolute requirement. I'm sorry. I wish there was another way, but this way is the only way for us to learn the true value of care, love, selflessness, and self-sacrifice.

This same concept is mirrored in most religions. Indeed, Siddhattha Gautama (known as the first/supreme Buddha) faced this. It's said that the reason for his spiritual journey (seeking enlightenment/attainment) was in order to find a way to remedy the pain & sorrow that faces humanity (and himself). In order to find the remedy, he had to succumb to the poison itself, but this was part of the lesson.
 
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True Initiate

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Thanks for those Four Noble Truths of Buddhism. All of these Eastern religions are quantum leap above our Western traditions. I am always amazed how deep those truths are.

I am not a self-hating person but i am lacking a passion for this Earthly existence and of the things like family, friends girlfriends...

Today is Saturday and i am plannig to read Azoëtia of Andrew Chumbley instead of going out. I am asking myself when did i loose the interest?
 

Aleilius

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Thanks for those Four Noble Truths of Buddhism. All of these Eastern religions are quantum leap above our Western traditions. I am always amazed how deep those truths are.
That they are! I believe Aleister Crowley mentioned in his biography that a Western mystic, after a long hard toil without making headway/spiritual progress, will always seek the Eastern philosophies, and that after doing so, their journey would be nearing completion. This was from his own experience (he also sought after the Eastern philosophies after internalizing so much Western dogma of questionable value).

The Western systems always leave the seeker searching for more, and never really offers any real answers to the greatest questions/problems. The religions of the West already tell you: "Oh, don't worry, you've been taken care of already, no need to question anything, just have faith!" What a load of BS. This is a very nasty trick that's been played. I could get into some crazy theories about why they've been designed the way they have, but that's for another time & thread!

I am not a self-hating person but i am lacking a passion for this Earthly existence and of the things like family, friends girlfriends...
Sorry, it might've not been the best term for me to use to describe this phenomena that surfaces in the human psyche. I don't know how to describe it without using loaded words/terms such as "self-hatred." Possibly, another way of saying it would be the stagnation of the emotions caused by a deep seated emotional blockage/complex. I don't know!

I added more to my previous reply after you posted your reply. Sorry about that. Sometimes I get in an editing mood, and will edited/add more to a post for at least 10 minutes. I continue to think of things I want to say, and instead of adding a new post I just edit my old one.
 

3+O(

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Of all old masters only Flamel had a wife and the majority of them were single!

Thomas Vaughan (Eugenius Philalethes) was married, there is a book I cannot remember the name of right now in a local library which is the record of their alchemical experiments together.He also speaks of her a great deal in his personal diary, she died young.

John Dee was married twice.

In the Confessio Fraternitatis it is mentioned that some members of the Invisible Order have children, which they do not necessarily teach their secrets to, in connection with the good Christian morals also mentioned, it may be inferred they had married.

"Adiramled" the pseudonym of an interesting modern figure, is from the names of a husband and wife, Delmar and Ida.

I do not think it is strange that most women are not interested in these topics, poring over obscure historical documents is the sort of (frankly!) nerdy pursuit that tends attract men more than women. I am married, and my wife has been kind enough to reassure me and encourage me in this interest, although it holds little attraction for her. If it were not old religous and scientific texts, it would be football statistics or cars or something else right?
 

horticult

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U should in Vienna buy Weininger.


btw after u do some au, u will see the power of atraction


as solomon said: 1 male of 1000, zero female from all
 

True Initiate

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U should in Vienna buy Weininger.

I had a quick read of his philosophy on Wiki and i like his statement:

The male aspect is active, productive, conscious and moral/logical, while the female aspect is passive, unproductive, unconscious and amoral/alogical.

btw after u do some au, u will see the power of atraction

What is the au?
 

horticult

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thats a bad translation, should be immoral etc

Au ... buy also some old good Freud
 

True Initiate

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That they are! I believe Aleister Crowley mentioned in his biography that a Western mystic, after a long hard toil without making headway/spiritual progress, will always seek the Eastern philosophies, and that after doing so, their journey would be nearing completion. This was from his own experience (he also sought after the Eastern philosophies after internalizing so much Western dogma of questionable value).

The Western systems always leave the seeker searching for more, and never really offers any real answers to the greatest questions/problems.

I am of the same opinion about this matter.

We find often how a Western Adept travels to East where he learns great secrets and then he comes back with this knowledge in the West and starts an Order like Christian Rosenkreutz or writes a good Grimoir like Abraham the Jew who wrote Abramelin and many more examples.
 
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True Initiate

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thats a bad translation, should be immoral etc

Au ... buy also some old good Freud

I thought for a moment that by your au you meant pua which is a modern seduction movement in which i was involved two years ago. :)
There are some great books that are surprisingly similar to our general Internal Path goals. I remember Inner Game by Hypnotica.
Those were good times...
 

horticult

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freud is basis & jung next level

freud+jung+liber III are mighty keys
 

Albion

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as solomon said: 1 male of 1000, zero female from all


23) All this I tested with wisdom. I thought I could fathom it, but it eludes me.

24) [The secret of] what happens is elusive and deep, deep down; who can discover it?

25) I put my mind to studying, exploring, and seeking wisdom and the reason of things, and to studying wickedness, stupidity, madness, and folly.

26) Now, I find woman more bitter than death; she is all traps, her hands are fetters and her heart is snares. He who is pleasing to God escapes her, and he who is displeasing is caught by her.

27) See, this is what I found, said Koheleth, item by item in my search for the reason of things.

28) As for what I sought further but did not find, I found only one human in a thousand, and the one I found among so many was never a woman.

29) But, see, this I did find: God made men plain, but they have engaged in too much reasoning.

[Ecclesiastes, Chapter 7, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh]
 

Awani

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Today is Saturday and i am plannig to read Azoëtia of Andrew Chumbley instead of going out. I am asking myself when did i loose the interest?

Sound much more fun than going out, I got bored of doing that ten years ago.

;)
 

Aleilius

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Sound much more fun than going out, I got bored of doing that ten years ago.

;)

Going out? What?! You mean people actually have to go out to have fun? That doesn't sound fun at all!

I hate going out. Call me a recluse I suppose, but I can't be bothered to go out when there's so much left to be uncovered, discovered, researched, etc. That's my fun, and I love it!
 

Awani

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Susu

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Not all women are materialistic and unspiritual as we may perceive them to be. My girlfriend got me going down the journey of alchemy and has helped and supported me throughout. In fact she even got me my first book "Frater Albertus - The Alchemist's Handbook".

Also, you mentioned having a circle of friends. Not saying you should replace the ones you have now but you should look into making another group of friends with common interest. I have a few group of friends, some I can't even mention alchemy without the thought of witchcraft, satanic rituals, or anime coming to mind. The ones I can talk about the subject of alchemy with is rather small, mainly my girlfriend. lol

If anything you always got us on this forum. Though faceless, we make a pretty good body.
 

Salazius

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Well, of course, if you have a weird look, weird face, weird clothes, weird language, speak of weird things, you can only attract a weird girl - and if you stay home, you'll never attract a girl - this is pure logic. But Alchemical interested weird girls are very rare. So ... So, try to look like a normal guy, speaking of normal thing, looking normal, and you'll have a normal social/personnal life. Of course if you're a goth, then, stay goth. If you're punk ... well, stay punk, because it is you and your 'normality'.

I'm single too. I spend three complete years without going out - after loosing touch with friends that moved in other places. It was okay since now. Since I've been only practicing Alchemy/Hermetics.

For a social life, it's not marvellous. At all. Since generally the persons you meet are in forums are in other places, countries, veeeery far. But for discovering new things in Alchemy, it's perfect. You're focused, and the work is intense. I discovered 10 kinds of different Alkahests in four days at that time ! It's rewarding in this field, and you of course go in lack in the others. But sometime sacrafice is necessary, you cannot serve two masters in the same time. I personnaly hate going slowly in someting I'm passionated. So I engage, my time, money, energy, disponibility etc in this field - a real priesthood. Until I'm fed up with it, with a total integration of the "need". once this intense period is over, generally this flame is no more, there is only a burning charcoil. But the passion is not over, it's more "part" of the whole.

Sometime you also can say it, depending to the person you are with. If you feel it ... this is also how you can atract someone.

The Path of Alchemy is closely linked with the Higher Intelligences of Saturn. And saturn ... generally makes you (feel) alone. And you need to be alone and focused to work with it, until a certain point.

Now, I'm loosing my grip on Alchemy, and Alchemy is loosing its on me. And I stop being an Hermit. But I'm more than ever and Alchemist now. I'm feeling undercover of course, since I have to lie by omission - of course. If ever saw the Tv show : 'The Pretender', then ... you can imagine the thing.
 
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Fireball

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Two month after I started just to be interested in Alchemy, I lost my girlfriend. It just happened that way. They feel that you cannot give them what they need, and they leave you. After 4 years she has a baby. And only now I can truly understand my nature and her nature. She needed what she needed and it came as contradiction with my needs.

Alchemy deals much with death. With true death that can separate us from the “dual world” (quite uncomfortable place to be for us - alchemists :)).

Only after true death we can maybe live a life of choice (True choice - To come back to this lifetime or maybe to choose another one but without the regular (vulgar) addiction to life, to the body and to the game.

Girls mostly seek out life. They are not interested in death (they could have curiosity, but that's not enough to truly walk the path of the alchemist). They usually refuse to deal with death of any kind. Instead, they continue to participate in the game called "more of everything" (More shopping, more babies, more small talks, etc. etc.)! They are designed this way - they bring babies and continue life in this world. It's the nature of their bodies and their genetics. Of course there are exceptions, but we are not talking about them right now.

Here's the main conflict between Alchemist and girlfriend. Death and Life. Alchemist cannot continue this life. He has to embrace death and have to let go of this dual world. Maybe the acceptance of the fact that you will never get what your body needs most - opposite gender (preferably with big boobs :)) - can bring you Peace of Mind. If you accept the fact that this world cannot give you what you really, really need - then you move on and stop to expect.

And then the Magic comes in... You receive what you need, whatever it is (even if you don't 'like' it), when you already gave up on search for anything. But that, of course, has to come from within. You have to know from within that it works that way.

Maybe you can find a true spirit companion for the path of alchemy, but I don't think it absolutely has to be a gilrfriend or opposite gender.

But if you are in alchemy and need an 'opposite' or someone to 'complete' you, maybe you are only an alchemist researcher and will remain so all your life. Nevertheless, if you are dealing with death, or just research it, it will automatically (with time) push away from you what desperately wants to 'live'.

There are good friends that can become a spirit family if you are lucky, and I think gender is not important here.

And if you really need sex...

There are prostitutes that can give you that, if you have a little money. :)
 
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