Reincarnation

[Awani]

I have a question, and I would like to see what people think (if you don't believe in reincarnation this thread is somewhat irrelevant, create a debunk thread if you like).

Example

You live your life and you are a bit of an asshole, but you work on it and when you die you die much less of an asshole than when you started. Then you are sent back for another life, do you then start somewhat at the same point or do you have to start all over again?

It seems, in terms if reincarnation, that there is some sort of "going forward" (and in some cases those that go backwards), but in terms of the former - if it is true that you don't start over, but progress from when you last finished - then how is that remembered? Is it somehow deep in your core being stored as a memory, but confused for just simple built in "creed".

 

[Andro]

The linear concept of time ('sent back', 'RE-incarnate', etc...) is very limiting if we want to understand those dynamics.

You don't "progress from where you last finished".

In most cases, you 'progress' simultaneously on multiple fronts. (IF 'progress' is your thing - it is for most...)

That's the telegram/shorthand version of it

 

[Awani]

Yes I agree with the non-linear aspect. But if you are a rapist and learn not to rape then in the next life you would grow up being less rapist in your mind, right? You wouldn't go back and be a super-rapist. I mean if you "in-between lives" understand that the "right" path is to not rape.

 

[Andro]

But if you are a rapist and learn not to rape then in the next life you would grow up being less rapist in your mind, right? You wouldn't go back and be a super-rapist.

This is still linear processing. There is no 'in the NEXT life'.

Multiple fronts SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Some 'fronts' contain the rapist experience, other simultaneous fronts may contain the rape victim experience (for example).

Experience data input to Spirit 'flows in' simultaneously from both/ALL fronts.

Parallel processing.

 

[Awani]

This is still linear processing. There is no 'in the NEXT life'.

Multiple fronts SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Some 'fronts' contain the rapist experience, other simultaneous fronts may contain the rape victim experience (for example).

Experience data input to Spirit 'flows in' simultaneously from both/ALL fronts.

Parallel processing.

I don't think I support that any more. I do agree with the non-linear bit. But the essence of the "self", whatever you want to call it is singular... and yes it might unite with other singular "selfs" at some point... but in this level it is singular. When I gather all sacred texts, personal direct experiences, NDE reports and all other sources of afterlife reports then it fits the model I just explained.

There is no hint (that I have found) that we are multiple beings at the same time (excluding the concept that we are all one of course).

Although I don't know the true state of affairs, I only put forth my current model, which my initial question was based upon.

 

[Andro]

I have a question, and I would like to see what people think

You asked what other people think, and this is my view. One among many others, I'm sure

Although I don't know the true state of affairs, I only put forth my current model, which my initial question was based upon.

If your model works for you, it's simple: Just use it And I doubt there is a 'true state of affairs'. IF there's a 'true' state, there likely wouldn't be any 'affairs' involved

If the current model doesn't satisfy you or doesn't work for you (or if you question it), then the suggestion would be opening up to considering other models... and combining everything (other models) into something uniquely yours that works best, yet still subject to ongoing rectification...

 

[Awani]

You asked what other people think, and this is my view.

Maybe I wasn't particular enough. My question was in regards to this model...

You live your life and you are a bit of an asshole, but you work on it and when you die you die much less of an asshole than when you started. Then you are sent back for another life, do you then start somewhat at the same point or do you have to start all over again?

It seems, in terms if reincarnation, that there is some sort of "going forward" (and in some cases those that go backwards), but in terms of the former - if it is true that you don't start over, but progress from when you last finished - then how is that remembered? Is it somehow deep in your core being stored as a memory, but confused for just simple built in "creed".

Your reply was to debunk the line of questioning. Even if it wasn't intentional. But that's fine. I am guilty of doing the same on multiple occasions.

 

[Andro]

My question was in regards to this model...

That line again

Not sure now if you seek reassurance by others elaborating on your already proposed model, or if you want other angles...

Your reply was to debunk the line of questioning.

I would hardly call that 'debunking'... I DID use the 'progress via incarnations' model as a basis, I just offered a different look at it IMO.

I am guilty of doing the same on multiple occasions.

Indeed. None of us is without sin ...

 

[Kiorionis]

I have my own perspective of it.

You live your life and you are a bit of an asshole, but you work on it and when you die you die much less of an asshole than when you started. Then you are sent back for another life, do you then start somewhat at the same point or do you have to start all over again?

I think it's a bit more involved than "if you die a bit less of an ass hole you'll reincarnate as a bit less of an ass hole."

From what I've read about it, reincarnation is of a particular 'Soul' manifested by a particular 'Spirit'.

For example, the 'soul' known as 'dev' is separate and more or less refined than the 'spirit' of 'dev' -- 'spirit-dev' manifests the various frequencies of 'soul-dev' over lifetimes based on who-knows-what criteria.

At least, this is how I see it currently. Spirit refines itself through conscious experience inside an energetic matrix, which is the blueprint for the physical matrix.

However, as I currently see it, the curious thing about physical incarnation is that the DNA available for an individual at birth from their parents weighs in on what the 'soul' will be like -- following a formula similar to body + spirit = soul.

Consciousness adapting to the soul's uniqueness seems to be a universal trait in human development.

If it is true that you don't start over, but progress from when you last finished - then how is that remembered? Is it somehow deep in your core being stored as a memory, but confused for just simple built in "creed".

I like to think that Consciousness/Spirit doesn't require memory. It is pure, unadultered peace and void-ness of thought. "In the beginning, the earth was formless and void" sort of thing. Consciousness/the "Spirit of God" is "hovering over the face of the deep" -- if that makes sense.

Consciousness only needs to be "remember" in as far as recognizing it's existence. Every time you recognize you're own "fixt point" you're "attuning" your soul and body to your spirit.

Memories, however, seem to be useful for Consciousness to reflect on in this lifetime. They allow Spirit to further manifest itself.

Lol, and this might only make sense to me, because it's based in my own unique soul-experiences

 

[Awani]

What about all those NDE reports that say they are in the state they left crossing over into "heaven"? Even if they merge with their higher self and attain a higher consciousness they still support The New York Yankees (simplified example) in heaven.

Not sure now if you seek reassurance by others elaborating on your already proposed model, or if you want other angles...

I'm fishing blind.

 

[Kiorionis]

What about all those NDE reports that say they are in the state they left crossing over into "heaven"? Even if they merge with their higher self and attain a higher consciousness they still support The New York Yankees (simplified example).

IMO, Because they come back to an older version of the physical hardware (how they've wired their brain). They need to express a Symbol, but they don't know how, so they use one their familiar with, like the Yankees.

On account of out of date hardware, the experience they remember was nothing like the real experience.

Haha or something like that

 

[Ghislain]

There is also the children that say they are someone else from past lives...they have accurately described things only that person could know.

Then there is the genetics...it was discovered in the 9/11 disaster that the children born to women who were there had a genetic change not found in others.
Using this info they stated it was proof that experience can be passed on in the genes. So for example a son of a carpenter my be a more proficient carpenter
than a child that is not.

Taking that into account I would say that we return with an empty mind, but sometime a glitch occurs where the memory isn't completely erased. You enter a
body with some tools in place from the parents genes and you take it from there. It would be nice to know if we do bring any information back subconsciously.

Do we choose our parents or is it pot luck?

Do we have the same good/bad traits already installed that we have to work on or is it a fresh start?

Another thing I wonder is do we always reincarnate here or do we get a choice of other worlds?

Ghislain

 

[John Bane]

I think that it's always up to us when and how we incarnate. Think about it in the other way:
If spirit and its conscious mind is eternal, then you are just like an avatar for your higher self. You are here because of something... because you have ben choose this incarnation. Ages ago i red amazing book by Paco Rabanne - Trayectoria. He describes he's experiences from his astral travels and he said that he have seen himself from time before he was born. I can more or less agree with that after my experiments with DMT. Ive seen something quite similar. In Emerald Tablets Hermes Trismegistus said that he choose this incarnation. According to this - if you are awaken enough to use the Natural Law as the conscious spirit- then an incarnation may be like another tool to gain more accomplishments for your knowledge and journey.

 

[Awani]

When you get to chewin' on alchemy's big ideas, you might find yourself wonderin' how it ties in with that notion of bein' born again after kickin' the bucket—what them city folks call "reincarnation." You see, alchemy's all about changin' and growin', kinda like how reincarnation says the soul gets a fresh start in a new body when the old one's done in.

Now, think on those alchemists tryin' to whip up that elixir of life—it's a bit like bein' born again, ain't it? They're aimin' for everlasting life, just like how reincarnation says the soul keeps on truckin' from one life to the next. And that bit about alchemy keepin' things balanced and avoidin' any trouble? Reminds me of that karma thing in reincarnation, where every move you make in this life sets the stage for what's comin' the next go-around.

Now, I ain't sayin' they're the same, but it sure is interestin' how those two different ideas can line up and teach us somethin' about change and keepin' things in balance, don't you think?

Source: Redneck AI

 

[Pilgrim]

Nature shows all

When a caterpillar crawls up a plant and becomes a cocoon do you think in its mind it is preparing to die or preparing for rebirth?

For one thing to exist another must die/perish. That is to say, first a thing must decompose to reduce it to its prima materia, only then can it be made into something else. We would do well to understand what that means for humans.

I wonder what matter we would find inside that caterpillar cocoon once it has putrefied . . . .