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Récréations Hermétiques in English?

amoodikh

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I am interesting to obtain Recreations Hermétiques in English.

Kind regards,

amoodikh
 

Illen A. Cluf

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I am interesting to obtain Recreations Hermétiques in English.
Kind regards,
amoodikh

It has been translated into English and is awaiting a final check before it will be published by an acquaintance.
 

amoodikh

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Thanks IIIen for your feedback. Please advise once it is ready.
 

Illen A. Cluf

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any update on that?

-sam

We currently have a reasonably good draft translation of the complete work, which just needs a final edit. We are a little concerned about publishing this and other fascinating books in process (e.g. the very large, uncondensed work of Petrus Bonus), based on a recent discussion by an author of alchemical texts who could not even retrieve the cost of publishing his books.

In other words, it will likely cost us, in total, more to publish it than any total returns that we may receive, let alone likely not ever being able to recover any of the incredible amount of time and effort that it took to translate/edit it. There are also often addiitonal costs, sometimes quite substantial, associated with obtaining the source materials in the first place. For example, I recently contacted a University for digitized copies of only two pages of a manuscript, and the total cost alone for those two pages was $103. It leaves us (and other potential authors of additional works) in a real dilemma.

We are willing to entertain any possible creative solutions to this problem.

Illen
 

sam

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We are a little concerned about publishing this and other fascinating books in process (e.g. the very large, uncondensed work of Petrus Bonus), based on a recent discussion by an author of alchemical texts who could not even retrieve the cost of publishing his books.
Illen

very understandable your position, and I think I recognize the author you mention.:rolleyes:

well, that seems the perfect first object for the proposed crowd funding.
what amount would you aim at for the entire project, assuming nice layout and print thru LULU (but not thru a publishing house because that would create all kinds of legal problems) - so the amount should reflect the sum you really want to gain for your work - not including any possible additional sales later (after the patrons get heir books) because those may or may not materialize.

what market price for the individual book you suggest?

-sam
 

Illen A. Cluf

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very understandable your position, and I think I recognize the author you mention.:rolleyes:

well, that seems the perfect first object for the proposed crowd funding.
what amount would you aim at for the entire project, assuming nice layout and print thru LULU (but not thru a publishing house because that would create all kinds of legal problems) - so the amount should reflect the sum you really want to gain for your work - not including any possible additional sales later (after the patrons get heir books) because those may or may not materialize.

what market price for the individual book you suggest?

-sam

Great questions, sam. I will continue to discuss these questions with my partner and get back to you. Now that most of the work has been completed, I'm eager to get this book out as soon as possible so that I can focus on the next project(s).

Ilen
 

sam

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If I may make a suggestion:

dont go too low on the price or the total amount. If you do you'll blow it for all future projects because sponsors will be spoiled and think someone who actually asks for a fair payment is a money grabbing hog.

from the bad experience I have I will not ever publish an alchemical text in booklength (even a short book) below 50 bucks. The way I see it those interested will purchase anyway, even if alchemy is only a hobby. people spend fortunes on mindless hobbies like stamp collections. We should not become overly moderate here I think.

btw: if you are willing to commit to the crowdfunding scheme with this project and give it a fair chance, say, 3-4 month for reaching the financial goal, I would go ahead and start preparing such a site for alchemy literature as proposed by me in the other thread.

you can pm me if you like or discuss it here or in the other thread.

-sam
 
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guthrie

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We currently have a reasonably good draft translation of the complete work, which just needs a final edit. We are a little concerned about publishing this and other fascinating books in process (e.g. the very large, uncondensed work of Petrus Bonus), based on a recent discussion by an author of alchemical texts who could not even retrieve the cost of publishing his books.

In other words, it will likely cost us, in total, more to publish it than any total returns that we may receive, let alone likely not ever being able to recover any of the incredible amount of time and effort that it took to translate/edit it. There are also often addiitonal costs, sometimes quite substantial, associated with obtaining the source materials in the first place. For example, I recently contacted a University for digitized copies of only two pages of a manuscript, and the total cost alone for those two pages was $103. It leaves us (and other potential authors of additional works) in a real dilemma.

We are willing to entertain any possible creative solutions to this problem.

Illen
I sympathise, but that's the experience of a lot of other people, such as Adam Maclean who has been translating and transcribing works for years, he can't make much money out of it at all. It's a labour of love.
Have you tried something like Kickstarter? Not sure enough people would be interested to do anything, but you never know.
Adam has also put the price up on his book copies, because he sees some of the older ones for sale second hand at vastly inflated prices, so there are some people out there who will pay a lot for them.
 

Illen A. Cluf

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I sympathise, but that's the experience of a lot of other people, such as Adam Maclean who has been translating and transcribing works for years, he can't make much money out of it at all. It's a labour of love.
Have you tried something like Kickstarter? Not sure enough people would be interested to do anything, but you never know.
Adam has also put the price up on his book copies, because he sees some of the older ones for sale second hand at vastly inflated prices, so there are some people out there who will pay a lot for them.

Thanks for your comments, guthrie. We're not looking for any real profit, just enough to cover our expenses and if a little is left over, then a very small portion for the incredible amount of time it took to translate it and edit it several times. We don't ever expect to be reimbursed for all the time it took, so from that perspective, it's a "labour of love" and a way to help others. I have actually transcribed an important document for Adam Maclean in the past. It was done without any expectations for any type of reimbursement, so was it entirely a labour of love. We have been thinking about raising the price of the book in order to help deter purchasers from making it freely available to others. It's much more unlikely for those more serious alchemists who purchase a book for a higher price to upload it for free than if the price was minimal, as we initially hoped to do. However, we still don't want to raise the price too high, so that those with less finances could also afford it. It's a fine line.
 

Kiorionis

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I'd have to say I'm one of those with less finances, and probably wouldn't pay more than $75 on any alchemy book, unless it was an out of print, 1000 copies available sort of thing that a dream-character told me I needed to buy :)
 

Illen A. Cluf

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I'd have to say I'm one of those with less finances, and probably wouldn't pay more than $75 on any alchemy book, unless it was an out of print, 1000 copies available sort of thing that a dream-character told me I needed to buy :)

We were thinking more in the order of about $40 - $50. We have another project of an important work that could end up with up to about 500 pages which is already partly done. That one, obviously would be more in the $75 - $100 range because of the volume and amount of time to decipher the old handwriting.
 

sam

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We were thinking more in the order of about $40 - $50. We have another project of an important work that could end up with up to about 500 pages which is already partly done. That one, obviously would be more in the $75 - $100 range because of the volume and amount of time to decipher the old handwriting.

well, if you google the specialised publishers you find very often books in the 50-100 and even 200 $ range. the 200 $ books are often limited to 50 pcs and are bound in leather etc. so I think there are even collectors out there that just want nice pieces for their showcase library - like stamp collectors, who never ever enter a lab or do any alchemical research. and why not. but those customers should be satisfied too. and with the CF approach we could easily offer different level perks to patrons who invest 200 $ like a limited edition in leather. why not?

-sam
 

psykopanther

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You could you draft it in a capable book format and pop it on amazon, they do publish books also. Cheaper I heard. Check out all the forgottenbooks.org publishes on there now. Cheap. Of course you can set you price above what it costs to pay for your time. Or just lock it with a pdf so it cannot be edited and accept PayPal or whatever for digital distribution of it. Everything turns to digital in long run. Think of rams collection.
 

Illen A. Cluf

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Well, I'm not really into making a profit, just trying to recover costs and some of my time. The key is to be able to get the important material out to others at a reasonable price so they can also learn from it and hopefully engage in subsequent discussion. I never really was into "collector books", but I can see the attraction for others.

The "Hermetic Receations" is a truly valuable book, and likely comes closer than any other alchemical book with regards to openly revealing almost the entire detailed process, step by step. It also defines many of the allegorical terms and phrases used by the sages, such as"Green Lion", "magnesia", "Hermetic Seal", "foliated earth", "Reign of Jupiter", "head of the raven", "Rebis", etc., etc. Thus it likely comes closer to an almost complete understanding of alchemy than any other book that I have come across (and I have read many). Not only that, but it comes packaged with an associated second treatise ("Scholium" or "Commentary") which succinctly provides all the key points in the first treatise, very concisely, point by point for 150 separate points. Most of these points provide very helpful clarification of the entire process. Almost the only thing missing is an open declaration of the starting matters.
 

psykopanther

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well just sell the electronic copy for what you need to for you time into it. What ever you decide to do, I would like to either pay for it or donate to ya for a copy. Although i do agree "paper" books are what i would really have, I cannot go spending lots of money for one book. But I am really trying to gather a good hard copy collection for my retirement and i can spend my days enjoying my Land and reading the arts. :)
 

sam

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well just sell the electronic copy for what you need to for you time into it

I strongly advise against that. Going electronic from the start almost ensures that the copy will be "shared" if not outright uploaded for distribution.
I did it once and ONE DAY LATER someone in the relevant forum announced proudly that he had cracked the amazon encryption (really a joke, any dunce can do it with calibre and one plugin) and if anyone wanted a copy. All in the open, there is not even a hint of shame anymore. the only way to avoid the entitled crowd is to a) print it hard copied and b) make it expensive because THOSE buyers usually know the value and wont just blindly share.

I know it sounds hard, but that the reality today. Once we get rid of the banksters globally and live in a moneyless society I am all for sharing with everybody.

-sam
 
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guthrie

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I'd say 40 or 50$, especially if it got you a paper copy, would be an okay sort of price. Sam is correct about the electronic copy. People writing say fiction can survive ebook pirating because it often leads to someone who enjoyed the work actually buying the next book for real, or else they sell enough copies to make up for the occaisional pirated one. Plus there are so many pirated books anyway you don't have time to read them all.
 

thoth

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You could print two versions, one in fine leather, and one hardback.
That way the collectors will pay way above normal, while others still get to acquire the knowledge. (it would have to be a good quality leather production to work)

Some collectors would buy more than one copy of a leather limited copy, ESPECIALLY for something that has real knowledge, which will definitely be collectable, which you have.

I regret not buying a leather version of Dwellings of the philosophers. My normal hardback is a prized possesion but a leather one would be be nice. Even the hardbacks are worth multiple of the original price.

Anyway, I will be buying it regardless of the price
 

Illen A. Cluf

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Thanks for all the suggestions. We haven't yet decided on how we will publish it (possibly Lulu?), but that decision will come quite soon. I just finished a final draft tonight, and my partner, who is extremely knowledgeable in alchemy (both theory and practice) will be reviewing it carefully to see if the language is consistent with alchemical practice. He's also preparing an Introduction.

We are also looking into having a very respected long-term alchemist and author of important books/articles review it as well. We want to ensure that the translation is as true to the original language and intention as possible. It will never be perfect (what translation ever is?), but we hope that it will be as professional as possible. We have already gone over the text numerous times over the past 2 or 3 years, making corrections/improvements each time. This has been long in the making and not rushed.

We hope you will find it as valuable and incredibly informative as we did.

Illen
 

Andro

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I think this is a very important book, complementary to the ICH & Cyliani lineage, as well as St. Didier and Fulcanelli, among others.

It contains valuable clues that are not mentioned in the other works, and possibly also some interesting variations within the same lineage.

I would highly recommend having/reading it.

I was quite close to commission a professional translation myself (from a French-to-English Alchemical Translator), but I'll wait a little more for this one and hope it works out well for everyone.
 

Dendritic Xylem

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Was this ever made available?

I would love to get a copy.
 

Philosophical

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Hello Illen,
Sorry to be a pest but did you hear back from your friend? I'm also very interested in this text.
 

Illen A. Cluf

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Hello Illen,
Sorry to be a pest but did you hear back from your friend? I'm also very interested in this text.

Yes, the translation is currently being checked by a well-known alchemist fluent in both English and French. We hope to have it published this Fall, depending on when he completes the check and our subsequent edits.