Physical Immortality... on THIS Earth?

[Seth-Ra]

Immortality presumes at least that once you achieved something, you won't have to achieve it again.

You're thinking entirely too linearly to begin to understand either time, or the meaning of achievement. lol

E.g., a lot of countries have absurd anti-humane military law - you need to serve in army away from your family for at least a year. Usually you have to eat low quality intoxicated food and have to deal with low-minded individuals, harsh, rude and aggressive. Once it was about to happen to me, I decided that I will finish my life but I won't allow such monstrosity, which is basically arrest for over 1 year and constant humiliation (especially if to consider that I am gay). I managed to solve this issue by a help of good medics.

That's not a big deal, and you can learn a lot about other people and the human condition through adversity and living with different types with different backgrounds, experiences, thoughts, etc.
I can understand why immortality in this form is so important to you; from the sounds of it, it would take you that long to become more universal and actually "get it".

But now when suicidal thoughts come into my head, I shrug them off, realizing that if I reincarnate there is big probability that I will have to meet all those horrors again, that I have to visit that cesspool which is school and similar social institutes if not worse, I could grow on streets (in third world country).

You see horrors where there are only lessons and challenges, which are what make life, life.

Seth-Ra, you speak about these things in such a relaxed manner because you NEVER truly experienced Death being near you, you never had to consider putting end to your life because of horrific life circumstances. But once you combine it with "immortality with reincarnation" you will receive sadism being taken in absolute - having to deal with terrific shit again and again and again and yet again.

Actually, he (Seth-Ra) DID experience death near him. He will elaborate if he wants to. Don't know about the rest.

Warmheart claimed similar things about me. Perhaps knowledge of other peoples experiences should be kept to a minimum.

LOL What a hilariously beautiful joke.

Warmheart, you have no idea what I, or other members here have gone through, nor the people we have watched die. Andro is one who can attest, and did respectfully, to the fact you are simply talking out your ass about people you can't begin to know.
Awani makes a good point here; details about one's personal life are probably better left to a minimum, as it's not about the people, but the points.
However, my name and identity are not hidden behind my avatar, I am quite the open and honest person, thus I will see if I can help paint a better picture of the experiences I have had;

I am an American, born in the southern most part of Alabama, right next to Florida, in the "Bible Belt". I grew up in a middle-class family, not remotely rich, but food, shelter and clothing were always provided - needs were met, wants were often not, except for special occasions. I myself was bullied all through my earliest years, and not this verbal and internet bullying crap the kids of today in the first world bitch about, but physically assaulted in the schools, and actively hunted and assaulted in the streets around my town. Such a wonderful childhood I had, having the shit beat out of me by groups of people at any given time, for no apparent reason - and if I defended myself, I was the one that got punished by the authorities, and if my attackers were questioned as to why they were attacking me, no answer or the occasional "he's weird". Most of them I had never even spoken to before such. *shrugs*
Good times... lol
Seriously though - they taught me. Taught me to fight, to never drop my guard, to know that anywhere people are, enemies can be. The Enemy is our greatest teacher, for the Enemy will show you everywhere you are weak. I was weak, timid, shy, explorative... they taught me to use my explorative nature to find brutal and unique ways of being strong, outspoken, and extroverted. Because of the cruelty around me, I learned martial arts and other modes of self defense.
Years later, I joined my country's army. There I learned more ways of destroy people, and the people I met... each one brought something fresh and unique to the table. We were all different, but all the same. We all brainstormed and bounced tactics and ideas off of each other and continued our education of war and killing.
I later left that place, as I felt called to do, because there were things that were going to destroy me if I stayed - and as my earlier years taught me, self preservation was everything. My Captain was a good man, and he facilitated my departure. Years later we would remain friends and I would learn how well he had done me concerning my departure from service...
Upon leaving the military, I did some odd jobs - worked in a deli, a carpet factory, etc. all the while interacting and learning from the strange and interesting, and more than a few asshole people that I encountered day to day. But then I felt my next calling, and I saved the money to do it; to become an EMT (Emergency Medical Technician).
I spent sooo much of my life learning to kill - in my true Gemini self, I felt it was time to balance that with learning to heal. I disagree with the big pharma and typical western "health care" with few exceptions - but emergency medicine is different; if we don't do these things, they die, right now. lol
I also continued working in security as well, until I got on full time working on an ambulance. Now I work full-time as an EMT Security Officer (i.e. both at the same time).

I have seen people burned beyond recognition, their partner who accidentally got them killed, begging us to kill him while we patched him up. I've seen a mother criticize her own son because he was fishing with his grandpa (the mother's dad), and due to unfortunate circumstances, the grandpa ended up drowning. The kid almost died trying to save him, but couldn't - and our other crew took care of the kid, while we recovered the drowned grandpa.
I've seen a human being who was completely eviscerated and their face totally gone aside from some fragments - I had to hold the bag open while to the coroner tried to get blood for the autopsy. I've seen a man that was executed, gunshot to the head, left in the dirt road in his underwear, and the killers take his vehicle and torch it on the other end of the county.
I've worked codes that lasted upwards of 3 hours, as we'd get a pulse back - in fact this particular time, every time we got the pulse back, I was the one doing the chest compressions, and we'd get it back, it would hold for a few mins, and then they'd lose it and we were right back at it. I have seen, and felt the handful of moments where we got them back - and I've heard the multitude of loved ones be told that their person was gone - their wails and cries are as vivid to me, as the blood and the gore and the stains in my uniform that Im not sure ever truly came out...
I've also had personal people dear to me die. One hella meaningful one, was also a founding member of this forum; Aleilius was his screen name, and I went to his funeral, said what I could, but not nearly all that I wanted to, and I lamented the loss of my oldest alchemy brother to a room of people who didn't know or understand his mind's complexity and depth to the reality and Arts like I did, and still, I loved them for just being there and loving him to the depth that they knew him and understand love.

I have bared witness to the harshness and cruelties of life - my family has been hit with natural disasters (we live in "Hurricane Alley" as its called), I have watched and felt people die in my arms, and shouldered the burden with the rest of the medical staff. I have also on a few occasions saved them, so they could die another day, preferably not while I'm on duty. lol
I have served in the military, and even now I contemplate doing so again - returning to the forces that once threatened to destroy me, and see if the new person I am today, can survive better than the old one I was then.
Then again, maybe I won't bother, as there's more for me to do than prove and settle old rivalries.
But its not something I run from either way. Either way, I'm ok with it. Life and death go hand in hand - matter and energy dance with each other like the serpents on Hermes' staff.

Alchemy has, as one of its prerequisites for immortality/the Stone, death. There is no white and red without there first being black. So you cannot sincerely be about these esoteric Arts and Sciences, while seeking to hold onto and preserve the tiny fractal that you currently (and errantly) imagine yourself to be.
True immortality, physical immortality, is in fact at hand - just as assuredly as matter and energy are interwoven and un-killable, so to are we. We merely move through forms, like a snake shedding its skin. That is the hard fact. Its demonstrable in nature, math, science, the spiritual traditions - all point to the reality of immortality. Only those who currently can't see, believe that that is the hard part, because of what they fear to lose.
You cannot lose, or attain what you innately are. lol

Likewise, you shouldn't condescend to people as if you are somehow one of those who have truly suffered, when you have no knowledge or conceptual experience of what others experience unless they tell you.
From having been in the shitty circumstances I have, and having been exposed to so many different people and types of people - I find most everyone knows what suffering is, as everyone deals with things that are relatable and comparable to one another, but also unique to each person. All of the snowflakes have similar geometry and are made of water - yet are uniquely special. One condescending to another and arrogantly thinking they can't understand the suffering of falling to the ground, is absurd since they all do it.

Some of us just recognize we have a choice on how we enjoy the flight along the breeze, and that is the difference between our levels of understanding.

_________________

People can simulate how good is "immortality in reincarnation". Give away everything you have (even your last underpants), save money only for one-way ticket to some third world country (preferably the one with ongoing war, e. g. Syria). Burn all the bridges with all your relatives and friends. There you go - simulation of "immortality in reincarnation". Lots of "fun", isn't it?

I will give 1 billion USD to everyone here who will die and them come back to me from afterlife. But first, they need to give me all their current belongings I think it is very good deal, I doubt we have dollar billionaires here, everyone can participate, I will be able to find these money for everyone who will prove me that I am wrong and that they are actually immortal and death is just minor issue

That makes no sense and is like comparing apples to oranges. All is One, and One is All - I'll gladly help all I can, but I can help none unless I am ok. Likewise, it makes no sense to put myself out and be of no use to myself or anyone else, just because of the inevitable. It is more beneficial to make the most of what I have, and in doing so, help the most, until its time to shed this form and move along with the game.
Besides - people are not helped with money or possessions. They are helped with wisdom, love, care, understanding, and a dash of useful knowledge.
Money and possessions are nothing but tools to be used, energy to exchange; the vehicle is nothing without the passengers inside it. The body is nothing without the soul - form is nothing without function, which is a product of thought - physical existence is for the facilitation of spiritual experience/expression.

Also it is all about attitudes. I have met, and are friends with, a lot of people that have a very positive outlook on life and next life... regardless of the horrors they have gone through.

Literally this. ^
If what I wrote is to long to read, Awani concisely summed it up.




~Seth-Ra / Jessie

 

[Warmheart]

Edit: Disregard what I wrote, let everyone think what they want.

 

[Kibric]

Edit: Disregard what I wrote,

Never.

But what is an old age if not disease itself.

It is. Before the ground was cursed, before our food was tainted by the soil, so after generations our genetics were affected, we were free.

it’s considerable, that man naturally is immortal, that is to say, has the possibility of not dying. Yea, even after his fall

 

[Warmheart]

Never.

There was a big post before I edited it out, I decided against putting it. It isn't like I changed my line of thought or something

It is. Before the ground was cursed, before our food was tainted by the soil, so after generations our genetics were affected, we were free.

Indeed. Lost Paradise, Golden Age, etc. Each culture had a name for that time.

 

[Kibric]

We merely move through forms, like a snake shedding its skin.

This is true but also we can keep a form and develop it infinitely.
we associate with the birth and death cycle being natural but immortality is also natural.
Nature is not rigid, many avenues are developed.
Humans think they have only one, the cycle, there are others that are open to them as well.
There is no competition. Everything has already been done, It's why bring yourself back to this place, this moments.
What did you miss ? what did you forget ?

 

[Awani]

@Seth-Ra: nice post

Warmheart, you have no idea what I, or other members here have gone through, nor the people we have watched die...

Your post made me remember something I should have mentioned earlier in this debate when the topic of "real" suffering came up. I am on the board of an organisation that does research related to infant deaths (since my first daughter died), and last year they completed a study that compared European women and poor starving women in South Sudan (a place that makes most of the world seem like paradise)... and the conclusion of the study was that [when loosing a baby] women in the rich parts of the world go through - and suffer - at the SAME level and in the SAME way, as the poor women of South Sudan do.

Suffering is suffering.

 

[Florius Frammel]

@Awani

Your compatriot, the late Hans Rosling and his gapminder foundation have a lot of interesting statistics and data that allow to compare the situation of people in the world.
That study you mentioned reminded me of him.

www.gapminder.org

Disconnected from your personal loss, which I can relate to, and rather contributing more to the topic, they found out that in 2001 there was a "peak child". From there on, the number of infants and youth was not increasing anymore. The ongoing worldwide problem of overpopulation is therefore no more a problem of getting too much children, it is more because people are getting older due to medical and hygiene progress. Those of you who believe that humans lived up to 900 years in the past can calculate what that would have meant for the planet (or the limited regions they lived in) and it's food resources, knowing they sure had a very high birth rate as well.

That means unless you are not talking about the land where milk and honey flows in rivers, but it's about physical immortality on this earth after all, right?

 

[Warmheart]

Disconnected from your personal loss, which I can relate to, and rather contributing more to the topic, they found out that in 2001 there was a "peak child". From there on, the number of infants and youth was not increasing anymore. The ongoing worldwide problem of overpopulation is therefore no more a problem of getting too much children, it is more because people are getting older due to medical and hygiene progress. Those of you who believe that humans lived up to 900 years in the past can calculate what that would have meant for the planet (or the limited regions they lived in) and it's food resources, knowing they sure had a very high birth rate as well.

So why do you think that producing progeny is a necessary thing to do? It is the way of low animals, to whom mankind fell to.

Also extremely high birth rate is way of mindless low animals. It was also noted that many rich people don't have much children, while big part of poor people is multiplying like rabbits, mostly because they are too dumb to realize that they multiply poverty, criminality, suffering and cause overpopulation.

In ancient times food was available free of charge, basically growing on trees. But when mankind started felling from the grace and started to intensively and extensively drain Earth from it resources, getting food became a hard labor. Outside of crude food, there were also various different ways of recovering energy (so to say), which are now mostly forgotten in modern mankind.

You are trying to project modern fallen man and modern crap time unto Golden Age.

Edit: In some point in close future, air will become very contaminated and there will be special machines to clear air. Poor people won't be able to afford it on regular basis. Your words could as well be projected from future times (applying modern problems, which are result of mankind's activity to the time when there were no such problems and no foul activity): "How did ancient people live when they weren't able to clean air by sophisticated machines?" A lot of things were working totally different in the past to what is today.

 

[Awani]

...while big part of poor people is multiplying like rabbits, mostly because they are too dumb to realize that they multiply poverty, criminality, suffering and cause overpopulation...

The whole human race can fit in USA. This planet can hold a lot of people. The issue is not overpopulation but the way we use resources and energy.

Poor people have many children because most of them die, and children are also their only way to survive growing old. They don't have "pension plans". If you refer to "poor black/white trash" in rich countries, then yes I agree... they have too many children but usually they do that because their welfare checks increase, or because they lack simple sex education. They don't know what happens when a penis ejacualtes in a vagina. This is a fact. I lived a year in a white trash area of Oklahoma and I was astonished at the number of people I met that did not know how sex and babies worked. They asked me questions that were so dumb that I could not hardly believe it.

 

[Warmheart]

The whole human race can fit in USA. This planet can hold a lot of people. The issue is not overpopulation but the way we use resources and energy.

I already was mentioning before that it is a highly dangerous and misleading myth. There is a point when balance is broken, and it is not the point when most of the Earth is covered by people but long before that point.

Let's say Earth can hold only 100 points of resources (money, water, fruits, etc.) necessary for an individual to survive. There are 100 individuals, so everyone gets a point of resource. And then 101st individual appears, so everyone gets only 0,99 pt of resource, or (if resource is non-divisible) someone remains without that point of resource.

It also seems as if you never dealt with caring about fishes or some other small animals or you did but didn't take it serious. Otherwise you'd know that size of population relatively to space is a very important factor. If that factor is broken and population of fish, rats, etc. became relatively too high (but still there seemingly a "lot" of space), they get various totally unknown diseases, and they start becoming highly inadequate - either extremely apathic or extremely aggressive. Speak about how many diseases were produced by mankind in the last centuries and how apathic/aggressive it is now. New diseases keep appearing even now, newer and newer forms.

Look at Africa, most of it once was a flourishing land and now it shows the future for entire Earth which is, I am afraid, almost unavoidable.

You must keep in mind that major portion of Earth should remain untouched by man, so it could reproduce whatever was used by man.

This with some other factors results in what we have. Living Hell, because people are careless and think the whole Earth is made for them only.

I could expand on this subject for a big book, but I feel like that man in a tale about poisoned well. That's when Angel came in dream of one man and told him that during night all water in wells will become poisoned so he must take as much clean water as possible and drink only it. Man woke up in horror and tried to warn people but it was already too late, people already were poisoned by water and went insane, in their insanity they started poisoning everything around, and were laughing at that man telling him that it is him who is insane and they are in their clear mind. Same here: majority of people disregard warnings of the few about overpopulation, about death being unnatural and so on.

"Known" official history of current civilization is 5000 years tops, which is a small fraction of one life of ancient people (and even that small fraction became a big subject to manipulations and substitutions). In other words, people got caught in illusion of moment that everything is fine as it should be while not seeing that all their "progress" is just a meaningless provocation of wars, cataclysms, mass destruction and deaths, which leads only to a shorter lifespan and newer diseases.

Even in a matter of some pathetic 50 years we could see in my land that teeth of those who is 60+ years old are quite OK, while teeth of people who are 40 years and less are all in very bad condition with almost every first person I know suffering from various auto-immune pathologies, which weren't so rampant here even some 20 years ago. In this year we had massive death of animals in many central/northern/north-eastern regions of Russia with various other abnormal events. This is very loud bellringing, but majority of people keep living in their fantasies and denial.

 

[Kibric]

The issue is not overpopulation but the way we use resources and energy.

Well not us common folk. We're told its our fault we're polluting but Leo Dicapro and Al Gore take private jets to climate change functions.
The biggest pollution comes from factories and industry that refuses to allow clean renewable energy into the main stream in order to keep making money.
Business 101. Your footprint is tiny compared to them. Yet it's your fault.
95% of wealth owned by 5%, massive wage gaps between workers and CEO's, corporations paying less tax than the population.
Overpopulation and dwindling resources are propaganda. The issue is greed plain and simple.

Immortality fixes a lot of problems. " Earth immortals " from Taoism require less food and water than others. They stay healthy for longer being no drain on public medical resources.
They take energy from the wind " feeding on wind in high mountains ", energy from the sun to heal themselves.
They're increased lifespan allows for more contributions from them to society ( science/technology/ art/medicine ) than an average human.
" Spiritual immortal and heavenly immortal " literally take up no space and resources, you could fit 1000 heavenly immortals in a cup because they're bodies are composed of light.
We don't like the idea of an immortal population because we don't understand immortality from a laymens position

 

[Awani]

It also seems as if you never dealt with caring about fishes or some other small animals or you did but didn't take it serious.

Again your expertise regarding other people is enormous. Are you Nostradamus on crack?

I already was mentioning before that it is a highly dangerous and misleading myth. There is a point when balance is broken, and it is not the point when most of the Earth is covered by people but long before that point...

The issue is not overpopulation, the issue is our use of resources, our choice of energy sources and the inequality of said resources and energy. Before you say that I lack experience with X or Y let me inform you that part of my JOB deals exclusivly with protecting nature, promoting solar energy and making sure resources are fairly distributed.

Let's say Earth can hold only 100 points of resources (money, water, fruits, etc.)

Money is not a resource.

Your example is moot because Nature does not work like that. Plants - if used correctly - can produced an infinite amount of resources. Hemp and Funghi can be used for most things we today use oil, trees and cotton for... in fact they are not only better, but cheaper and 100 % sustainable.

Eventually overpopulation will become an issue... if we keep growing as a human race... for sure... but as it stands today we are FAR FROM overpopulated. The problem is not population, but the manner in which the populations is shepherded.

I am hopeful for the future. I am not as cynical as most people seem to be in this thread. Then again the irony is that I don't see a future for me on this planet... wheras those cynical people want to live HERE forever. Irony?

 

[Awani]

... but Leo Dicapro and Al Gore take private jets to climate change functions.

That remark I've heard millions of times. It is not correct. Kibric why don't you travel 4-5 times a month to all parts of the world all year round in Economy and see how that helps your cause? Private Jet is not the issue. Leonardo diCaprio is doing more for the world than 100 % of the people complaining that he sometimes use a private jet.

The issue is greed plain and simple.

I agree. We are all to blame. Lazy content modern humans living in material luxury (compared to most of the world). Humanitys downfall could seem to be greed... but I think it is laziness more than anything else. Contentment is the greatest threat to any form of "utopian" world in my opinion. Where the contentment grows nothing grows.

Your footprint is tiny compared to them. Yet it's your fault..

Without YOU those factories and companies would not sell anything. It is your (our) fault.

95% of wealth owned by 5%, massive wage gaps between workers and CEO's, corporations paying less tax than the population.

Blame the voters.

 

[Kibric]

Leonardo diCaprio is doing more for the world than 100 % of the people complaining that he sometimes use a private jet.

No my footprint is a lot smaller than his, i don't have 5 cars which all need fuel, i don't have 3 houses and holiday homes which use energy.
I can't take a private jet costing 50,000 + dollars in fuel to nip to Italy. I don't own a yacht or throw parties where food is throw out.
Leo can bring awareness to climate change but that doesn't mean he and the super rich aren't part of the problem.

I agree. We are all to blame

No. When you're governments lose 2 trillion dollars, uses low paid labour to prop up big business, gives tax breaks to the rich,
Cuts funding to social care and front line services in favour of privatisation, No it's not all our fault.

Without YOU those factories and companies would not sell anything. It is your (our) fault.

So we are to blame for businesses corruption and exploitation because we depend on them for resources.
Just because they sell us something we need, its our fault they're polluting ? when they don't have to pollute, it's just cheaper to pollute ?.
Unfortunately the biggest impact on climate change is big business and they're neglect of the environment. You can't avoid it.

Blame the voters.

Right because elections aren't influenced by business ?

 

[Florius Frammel]

Trivia:
Worldwide 25 nuclear power plants are necessary to keep running the internet we all are using in this very moment.

Easy answers are dangerous imo. At least politically. Easy answers often lead people to dangerous ideas and views. Not only dangerous for those who are allegedly responsable, but dangerous for their neighbors as well.

Some business people still think they can explain human behavior with the model of a homo oeconomicus. I think that may be part of what some of you have declared as a "disease".

@Warmheart:

Do you really blame people for things they just can't know? Maybe you are right with your view of the past. But there is almost no evidence that that was the case. And excluding old texts there is no evidence left. So you are actually blaming others who don't share your believe system (sorry that I have to define it like that due to reasons above), which can be very dangerous too.

It can't be a solution to blame India and China for their increase of pollution and hunger for resources either. Actually they just want to live like the most wealthiest people in the world for reasons they might know. Saving resources is something people in wealthy countries should be forced to do. You can look for buying organic food and avoiding plastic bags, but with one flight the ecological footprint is again equal to those who don't care about organic food and plastic bags.

But the difference between the rich and the poor worldwide isn't as big as it used to be in the first part of the 20th century. Also more and more people succeed to get out of poverty. Especially in Asia. Some things in some countries actually start to get better than they used to be some ten years ago.

I think Awani might have the forecast in mind that says that around 2100 world's population won't increase further. Even the pessimistic researches seem to acknowledge this.
But it is still necessary for industrialized countries to reduce their "need" for energy and food. The developing countries still need to continue investing in education, women's rights and birth control. Things that obviously could be useful in Oklahoma too.

So actually indeed everyone can have a more or less big share on world's problems of today.

 

[Kibric]

I have to much luv for Awani, i don't want to fight.

So actually indeed everyone can have a more or less big share on world's problems of today.

conceded.

 

[Awani]

I have to much luv for awani, i don't want to fight.

Relax. I am not fighting. I am only expressing my view. I am not an authority... unless we are discussing my own experiences, which only I am an authority [author] of.

...but that doesn't mean he and the super rich aren't part of the problem.

The super rich don't waste as much resources, and pollute as much, as the Western Middle Class... the worst group of people on the planet when it comes to use of resources... working class close second place.

When you're governments lose 2 trillion dollars, uses low paid labour to prop up big business, gives tax breaks to the rich,
Cuts funding to social care and front line services in favour of privatisation, No it's not all our fault.

Yes it is. You voted for them. Or you didn't rise up and over throw them. You didn't chop their head off. You didn't create a revolution. You didn't... see THIS

So we are to blame for businesses corruption and exploitation because we depend on them for resources.

People want sugar... I sell sugar.

It is always cheaper to pollute... this is because of the governments and the laws... we could easily make pollution expensive, but the governments are in bed with the corporations and WE - the masses - approve of this by: voting, buying, ignoring or internally fighting

 

[Warmheart]

EDIT: I edited out this post to avoid further off-topic discussion and because it costs a lot of thankless efforts trying to prove something to someone. As I said before, time is a good judge for things. What can a few people do against huge machine of Hell anyway?

 

[Seth-Ra]

Everyone's "footprint" pales in comparison to that of the Earth itself.

People aren't melting the glaciers. The planet is, using its own volcanoes.

The volcanoes all over the world are emitting more than any human endeavor. The planet goes through cycles - these are normal. You can't stop them, prevent them, stall them - only ride them.

We didn't "fall" into this realm/form as a "negative", but as a part of the perfected expression made manifest. Humans are pretty egotistical to think they can fuck up something that is beyond their control. lol Y'all might as well say that the sun is going to go supernova and wipe out the solar system, because of us and our [insert self deprecating ideas of ourselves as a whole]. Such silliness also leads to more of the "us vs them" mentality. It doesn't really matter, its just a fun game we play with ourselves. But its also a short-sighted game that many take way to seriously. lol

...wheras those cynical people want to live HERE forever. Irony?

Absolute irony, and hilariously beautiful. Their problem is one of both letting go (afraid to leave), and surrendering (to a larger picture than what is in their/human hands). The really funny thing is, eventually all must. But time is a fun and fickle bitch, so no need to worry much about that, or try to pin down "when". lololol

The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.

~Seth-Ra

 

[Awani]

I agree and disagree. The planet will survive anything we petty humans do to it... what "we do" is a bigger threat to our own experience of this planet, than to the planet itself. The NSF you sourced is not a reliable source. Any federal agency of the USA is a bitch to the "Agenda"... so I take any information from such institutions with a grain of salt (even if they claim independence). Climate change is real... and to a large degree it is man-made, but it is also part of the "up" and "down" of the planet itself. For instance the Amazon Rainforest (which I directly work with) is under immense pressure and there is no debate regarding the fact that humans are destroying it. The planet will survive the destruction, we won't. And it would be a shame to loose all those amazing plants, animals and scenery just to be able to have Nike shoes.

There is one aspect to the climate change debate that I have so far NEVER heard, but that is very important.

Imagine if I come to your house every day and dump polluted waste all over your kitchen floor and at the same time I cut down sections of your walls. I come by and do this to your house on a weekly basis, and eventually (unless you are a little bitch) you are going to put into place "something" to perhaps remove my presence or at least stop it. Right?

The planet is alive. Earth is a conscious entity. If human beings became 100 % ecological and sustainable I think the "natural" aspects of climate change, as well as natural disasters, will decrease. Sometimes people call a hurricane an Act of God, and in a sense it is.

 

[Kibric]

" natures a serial killer ". Zombie apocalypse here we come, 2 birds with 1 stone, immortality and we leave the planet alone.

 

[Florius Frammel]

As here used to be some talk about the devil, demons and hell, why not have a look at first person data?
This is a recording of the last documented exorcism in Germany. Warning: This can be hard to listen and look to even for hardcore materialists!

After watching and listening to this the first time some years ago, I noticed the following:

1. The devil has a quite "colorful" hessian accent.
2. This "possession" is probably a problem of the Operating System

The poor girl was grown up in a very "old-fashioned" catholic area. Her problems really went bad when she moved to study in a big city, where she saw what is "possible" for young girls in the 70ies.
Of course it came to a conflict in the young girl's mind, eventually leading to that "possession". The (experienced!) priests who were called to do the exorcism seemed to have increased the problem and the girl eventually died.

Of course that can't explain everything, as there sure were other girls with a similar background who not got obsessed.

I know other cases when people almost went mad because they thought they broke the second of the ten commandments all the time in their mind.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain!

There is an interesting experiment you can do on your own if you want. Try not to think about an ice bear for two minutes! Either you will fail, or you will do after those two minutes. It was the same case like with those people and the second commandment. They felt the "nonsensical" need to insult god all the time and got into a conflict because they wanted to be good Christians/Jews after all.

What I am trying to say is, that when you call something "devilish", or make warnings like "watch out, this entity can scatter your soul!", or "don't be near the Spiritus Mundi", you may force/provoke exactly that what you are warning for. And it may not be a problem at all for most people, if they would not have gotten such kinds of warnings/commandments.

Other examples in that direction may include "the divine call for a holy war against the nonbelievers".

All this is somehow related to the phenomena of "self-fulfilling-prophecy" too, IMO.

Of course there may be other explanations, than this one based on the "OS level". What do I know after all. But a lot of such kinds of issues could be avoided when being aware of this IMO.

 

[Andro]

And it may not be a problem at all for most people, if they would not have gotten such kinds of warnings/commandments.

General remark: Some phenomena are relatively more "fixed" and therefore relatively less "observer/projector-dependent".

 

[Florius Frammel]

General remark: Some phenomena are relatively more "fixed" and therefore relatively less "observer/projector-dependent".

That is why I labeled above examples as "OS problems". You can't deny that counts for alot of discussed issues here. I think I see things you call "fixed" to be rather "volatile" ;-)
But maybe I just don't understand you here.

Edit: Of course, knowing about these mechanisms also can lead to conciously or unconciously manipulate others towards some kind of personal or "higher" agenda. That has always been the case imo.

 

[Alkasior]

Hi all,

I hope I'm posting in the right area haha.

I was meditating on the subject of immortality.

My current ideas are like this.

What if in our distant past there were immortals, or we all were immortals. But something happened, and the vast majority of humans became mortal ( plenty conspiracy theories here... )

What about the ones that remained immortal? Or became immortal by various means.

How would they experience life through the eons and thousands of years?

Do they ever get bored?

If they are organized like a city or village, do they ever get tired of each other?

Do they wait for new humans to be born?
And live and experience life through mortals?

Are we giving them a distraction and entertainment?

Do they eagerly expect new generations to be born? So they can satisfy their emptiness inside and the passing of time?

How do they find meaning in an everlasting life?

How many thousands of years will take until they will say... och, I'm ready to die (move on).

These are just some ideas my brain is struggling with.

Any thoughts?