. Ozone as the Prima Materia

[theFool]

I tried a similar air magnetization setup...

Was the water triple distilled? What was the source? I also had no positive results with any kind of magnetic water experiment.

 

[crestind]

It probably was not triple distilled, as they were gallons of "Distilled" water from the store. The labels claim they are distilled, carbon filtered and RO'd if you can believe it. I imagine they should be close to 0ppm.

The only "positive" result I ever got was magnetically spinning impure water from natural sources like from streams around magnets. It causes the water to cloud up. It will not work with clean water such as distilled, which suggests to me the magnets are simply affecting impurities in the water and causing them to clump up somehow, resulting in a murky appearance. Murkiness usually being an indicator of larger particle sizes.

I tried the air tube magnetization because of the claim from this guy here...
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?367-Modified-Methods-For-Producing-Ormus-Material

Ormus water bubbler- concentrator
Take a fish tank air pump and put ceramic magnets nn ss so the all hover over each other over the tubing. Put the air stone on the end and bubble your water to charge your ormus in the water. Different types of water have different amounts of Ormus elements . City water will have the least amount of Ormus. charge for 5 minutes or longer. The longer it runs the more iridescent and cloudy the water will become. Some postulate this is due to fine m-state elements being in the air. Or the super charging of the M-state elements in the water. This procedure has also produced the oily film that moved through the glass and has a sweet flavor.

 

[theFool]

It probably was not triple distilled, as they were gallons of "Distilled" water from the store. The labels claim they are distilled, carbon filtered and RO'd if you can believe it. I imagine they should be close to 0ppm.

Still ,it may be different than distilled water from a spring. Distillation does not mean to remove everything that is inside the water. It acts in a different way than RO or carbon filtering. Just an idea.

 

[ghetto alchemist]

I'm currently trying to electrolyse with curved electrodes (stainless steel bowls instead of flat plates)
and charging with higher voltages than Nav2010, 70V instead of Nav's 12V.
I'm seeing incredible things happening to the properties of the water that defy all scientific principles.

- the water behaves differently when poured (increase in viscosity)
- bubbles generated from pouring stay on the surface far longer giving the appearance of soapy water
- brown scum appears in the water after only a couple of minutes of electricty is applied
- dirty water sitting in the immediate area of the electrolysis cell cleans itself by separating out particulate matter
- the taste of the water changes.

Haven't tried to hold this new water at 37 degrees yet, spending all my time filtering the brown scum out
and trying to make the water more and more charged. I'm only putting this up now because these results truly are interesting in and of themselves.

 

[Andro]

Hi,

1. Are you using distilled water?

2. Have you checked for changes in the freezing point after treatment?

3. What power source are you using for 70V?

Thanks.

 

[elixirmixer]

i was just reading nav2010's post actually and im quite intriged also. how have you gone so far in your attempts?? any tips as i was just about to take a trip down to thw hardware store to get the supplies. what did you use to regulate the current??

 

[elixirmixer]

i cant believe how much bullshit ive had to read to try to get the info om this. and you fucling scared nav2010 away... geeeesssss. going to buy all this equipment right now. talk is cheap.

"He who has made the Stone may cast the stone."

 

[zoas23]

I'm currently trying to electrolyse with curved electrodes (stainless steel bowls instead of flat plates)
and charging with higher voltages than Nav2010, 70V instead of Nav's 12V.
I'm seeing incredible things happening to the properties of the water that defy all scientific principles.

- the water behaves differently when poured (increase in viscosity)
- bubbles generated from pouring stay on the surface far longer giving the appearance of soapy water
- brown scum appears in the water after only a couple of minutes of electricty is applied
- dirty water sitting in the immediate area of the electrolysis cell cleans itself by separating out particulate matter
- the taste of the water changes.

Haven't tried to hold this new water at 37 degrees yet, spending all my time filtering the brown scum out
and trying to make the water more and more charged. I'm only putting this up now because these results truly are interesting in and of themselves.

I got identical results... though with 12V.

HOWEVER I got the results YOU describe and not the ones that NAV described (the most notable effects are the increased viscosity, some *unexplained* amount of water that seems to vanish, absolutely no "white colored water"... and a weird brown stuff that I thought that could be grease or glue, but it keeps on showing up even after perfectly cleaning everything.

But this is very far from the stuff that Nav described:
-My water does not corrode metals in a different way that it would do before the electrolysis... it certainly does not dissolve silver... it doesn't create a "white" mysterious stuff... and it doesn't "eat everything".

 

[Kiorionis]

@zoas

Perhaps 'water' is to be reinterpreted? Alcohol is technically a water. So is vinegar.

 

[elixirmixer]

okay so i apologize for calling it all bullshit, i had only read half way (the first half was alot of bullshit)

Now... i wanna bet my right swollen nut (sorry mods i know i said id behave...) that thia needs to be done with dew, from a thunderstorm and that nitrates are the secret ingredient.

i want to draw on some points that no one has touched on. Alchemy is a sacred science is it not? A divine art? Nav was in a bad place, as a result of some nasty thoughts about cancer, his desire to create a product capable of helping himself (even subconciously) was FAR more of a driving factor than most others have just to see if this "VERY" cool sounding little project works or not. And considering is complete openness and seemingly good heart (i value my intuition and i dont believe he told a word of a lie, even if things could habe been explained better) im sure he actually PRAYED about this at some stage or another... so i just want to you too think about that... you got some of his results didnt you? shows he did actually perform the experiment.

i certainly would not give up hope on this idea, i mean consider the simplicity if it! its beautiful!

so im on board now! (arnt you all excited) and im going to do my best to first do exactly what is vaguely said. im going to warm up an incubation spot first. im using 316 stainless steel (although using stainless doesnt make heeeeaps of sense to mw but anyway, im going to use alot less water than the photos i saw. im going to pray. and when all of this turns out the same results we have already seen, then im going to repeat with sol UV and luna nitrates.

 

[zoas23]

@zoas

Perhaps 'water' is to be reinterpreted? Alcohol is technically a water. So is vinegar.

I don't think so, though you are also right.

I don't think so: Nav described his method and he gave a very specific explanation of the types of water he used... and nothing in his words suggests that he was using the term as a metaphor. I think that when Nav said water, he meant water.

Though you are also right: sure... this same experiment can be done with ethanol, methanol, vinegar, distilled urine, dew, etc... AND such thing may give interesting results (or not)... but I think Nav was doing it with water in a literal way (he even described the different results he got with different types of literal water). Of course, that's not a reason to ignore all the other liquids a person can conceive.

 

[ghetto alchemist]

Andro asked:
1. Are you using distilled water?
2. Have you checked for changes in the freezing point after treatment?
3. What power source are you using for 70V?

1 water is from the local river, I harvested from a section that snakes around a bit and with a couple of areas with the water flowing around rocks, very little run-off from farms in the area where I harvested. Water was a bit dirty when I first harvested it too.

2 I tested today.....hard to be totally sure, but it seems that the freezing point of the charged water is the same as uncharged. Not as exciting as we hoped huh.

3 Power source is a variable autotransformer (VARIAC) which has been bridge rectified but no capacitor for smoothing. There is a better description on Moshe's site HERE under "Method 1". It's a mad scientist method, most of you won't have a VARIAC, and it's not very "ghetto" either. But I simply couldn't find a cheaper way to get the higher voltages.

I copied Moshe's design, but used 3 stainless steel bowls instead of his expensive setup. For spacers I used pine dowelling and washers cut from a white cutting board. You'll find a video on his site where he shows how to set up a hemisphere cell (half-cell) for charging water only. I used that video to get some ideas on how to cut the washers.

Ironically Moshe used to be a member of this forum until he got himself banned.

 

[elixirmixer]

Ive been doing some research and found some things of value. This post assumes our goal to be the creation of ozone. Also, if your not aware, the lethal does for humans of ozone is 50ppm for 30mins.

a) the choice of electrodes is important. obviously. if it is ozone we are trying to create then a platnium anode, preferably dielectricly coated, is ideal.

b) uv radiation, perhaps directed by a magnifying glass onto the bubbles acumulating on the anode will create ozone (has the possibility to violently explode apparently.

c) There is Russian research that has shown that water is effected by magnetic fields and the emerging properties caused by a magnetic field are benefitual to an ozone creating environment.

d) ozone is diamagnetic, meaning that is activley repels itself from magnetic fields, which i was thinking could be a away of "holding down" the ozone in the water, since you might choose to be using a magnet anyway to help catalyise these changes.

Hope this helps. Is anyone still working on this?

 

[ghetto alchemist]

Zoas23 says:
-My water does not corrode metals in a different way that it would do before the electrolysis... it certainly does not dissolve silver... it doesn't create a "white" mysterious stuff... and it doesn't "eat everything".

Did your water get that really thick surface tension water like in Moshe's videos?

I'd love to do a vacuum distillation on that kind of water, just to see what happens.

elixermixer says:

b) uv radiation, perhaps directed by a magnifying glass onto the bubbles acumulating on the anode will create ozone (has the possibility to violently explode apparently.

c) There is Russian research that has shown that water is effected by magnetic fields and the emerging properties caused by a magnetic field are benefitual to an ozone creating environment.

I reckon either or both of these might be fruitful avenues....you probably saw when Nav said to look into how exactly to make ozone from electrolysis for better information.

 

[Wigwamman]

I'm currently trying to electrolyse with curved electrodes (stainless steel bowls instead of flat plates)
and charging with higher voltages than Nav2010, 70V instead of Nav's 12V.
I'm seeing incredible things happening to the properties of the water that defy all scientific principles.

at first congrads on your experiment,
and thanks for sharing

if u like and if u know how to, you might want to degausse/quench the SS316 as worked SS316 is still quite magnetic and that is something that is not desirable... the less its magnetic the better, as u only want it to be a conductor of static to the water not conducting any magnetic field on its own, this allows the magnetic field to only flow through the water, not ressisiting to any other field like if u use still magnetic steel, this makes for a way better effect (field shape..), if the SS is conpleetly non magnetic and your cell is constructed correctly it can run at as match as 3V just makes sure you have good spacers(Non magnetic/electric conducting) and some neutrals, the key is to create the field only in the water, this will structure the water,..
hope this might help u in your experiments, just be carefull drinking the stuff, depending on the charge N/S +/- it can be greate medicine or highly toxic...
kind regards..

 

[zoas23]

Did your water get that really thick surface tension water like in Moshe's videos?

Yes and no...
I actually got the same results, but on a lower scale...

I got the same thing that Moshe got, except that in his case the whole thing is more noticeable (by far more noticeable) and it's probably due to a better design and a higher voltage.
But, yeah, I got the same results, except that "less" (I'm having a struggle with English right now... if this was a vegetable maceration to produce ethanol, I'd say that I got a 10% of ethanol and Moshe got a 60% of ethanol... as a way to explain it).

My results can be described as:
- Higher water tension: YES... it became closer to an "oil".

-It eats everything: NO... I can even touch it and it simply feels like touching a water that got more dense and nothing else (i.e, it's not like touching bleach that hurts your skin... or an acid).

-It corrodes metals like an alkahest: NO... definitely it doesn't.

-When it is sealed an important part of the water "vanishes": YES

-When the water is vanished it gets replaced by a mysterious white substance: NO

-The source of the water is very important: NO (I used commercial distilled water, distilled rain water and water from a river... my results didn't show any difference).

-Something weird happens if it is kept for a LONG time in a luted sealed flask: YES... it melted the "stopping" of the flask with the flask and I couldn't separate them. Such effect did not happen with non-luted flasks.

I will try to change my "device" and switch to a higher voltage... maybe we can all return to a "team work" and seeing if we all arrive to something.

 

[Dendritic Xylem]

3 Power source is a variable autotransformer (VARIAC) which has been bridge rectified but no capacitor for smoothing. There is a better description on Moshe's site HERE under "Method 1". It's a mad scientist method, most of you won't have a VARIAC, and it's not very "ghetto" either. But I simply couldn't find a cheaper way to get the higher voltages.

I copied Moshe's design, but used 3 stainless steel bowls instead of his expensive setup. For spacers I used pine dowelling and washers cut from a white cutting board. You'll find a video on his site where he shows how to set up a hemisphere cell (half-cell) for charging water only. I used that video to get some ideas on how to cut the washers.

Ironically Moshe used to be a member of this forum until he got himself banned.

The lack of capacitive smoothing is probably where your brown sludge came from.
I've made hho cells which are powered by rectified 120vac, and the plates corrode much faster than true dc.

Also, I'll come right out and say it.....I think Moshe is completely full of shit.
I have one of his moe-joe cells, which he kindly sent for free so I could test it. That was nice...
But during email exchanges I found out he basically had little or no success with the device he was selling.
When I told him I wasn't getting any results with the cell...he told me he was trying electrolytes and would let me know if that worked....
Aren't you supposed to do that kind of basic testing BEFORE selling the product?

Take his words with a grain of salt.

 

[zoas23]

On the issue of generating 70v... a question from someone with a vast ignorance of electrical appliances:

Wouldn't a transformer 220 to 70... or 110 to 70 (depending where you live) do the trick????

And then, wouldn't a simple dimmer prepared for 70V do the "trick" of controlling the current? (of course, the dimmer would be connected to the wires that "get out" of the transformer, not the ones that "get in").

This is cheap and I think it should work (unless "normal" transformers are sensitive to short circuits and the electrolysis itself creates a small short circuit -I am not too sure about this issue).

 

[Dendritic Xylem]

Please don't play with AC higher than 25 volts or DC higher than 60 volts unless you understand what you are doing.
Remember, electricity can kill.

 

[zoas23]

Please don't play with AC higher than 25 volts or DC higher than 60 volts unless you understand what you are doing.
Remember, electricity can kill.

I'm very aware of the dangers of electricity and I have worked many times with 380 Volts and a very high amperage (the lamps used in the film industry sometimes work with that current)... and I know by heart all the cautions to take.
[I even had to take a 4 months class about this specific subject: safety with electricity]

An accident with 380 volts is almost a death certificate... So I know how to be cautious and avoid doing stupid things.

My question is mostly related to technical issues where I have doubts... I don't know if a transformer being used as the "power generator" for an electrolysis of distilled water can produce a short circuit and be ruined. My main concern is such thing... but I won't end up electrified... I am mostly concerned with destroying the transformer (as to be very clear, I am not an expert in this field and I am not sure if my idea has a technical problem that will simply ruin the transformer... but I still know very well what NOT to do myself as to avoid a fatal accident).

 

[Dendritic Xylem]

Sorry if I offended you. My comment was also aimed at potential readers, not just you.
Whether the cell acts as a short circuit will depend on the voltage, electrode spacing, and electrolyte content.

If the goal is to create 70v dc cheaply...you could connect (8) 9v batteries in series.
Not exactly 70v, but it would make a smooth 72v dc supply.
You can get rechargeable ones if you want to do more than a few tests.

A boost converter connected to a 12v supply might be a good cheap option.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-600W-...179064?hash=item419c6bb6b8:g:A-AAAOSw4SlV8uDp

 

[ghetto alchemist]

Wigwaman says:
if u like and if u know how to, you might want to degausse/quench the SS316 as worked SS316 is still quite magnetic and that is something that is not desirable... the less its magnetic the better, as u only want it to be a conductor of static to the water not conducting any magnetic field on its own,

Ah yes....good point.
I neglected to mention that I originally purchased 5 bowls, all different diameters. The largest bowl was completely free of magnetism, the other 4 had a bit of magnetism. The 2 smallest bowls were thrown into a really hot coal fire for 3-5 mins and air cooled, then lightly sanded to remove most of the rainbow oxide on them. This removed most of the magnetism, and those are the 3 bowls that I'm using (the 2 small bowls plus the biggest bowl).

The other 2 bowls (3rd and 4th biggest) were too big and couldn't get hot enough from being placed in coals. With those 2, I surrounded them with loads of wood and did a solid burn, periodicly rotating them, and adding more wood. This removed their magnetism in some places only, and left them with a very thick black oxide coating almost too difficult to remove. Because of their residual magnetism I didn't bother to use them.

Wigwaman says:
just be carefull drinking the stuff, depending on the charge N/S +/- it can be greate medicine or highly toxic...

What would I have to do to make the water toxic? I connected negative lead to center, and positive lead to outside. Are you saying if the leads are swapped that it will produce a toxic water?

Seems like you have some experience with this stuff...would you care to share some more?

 

[Andro]

Slightly off-topic:

While Ozone may or may not be a 'prima materia', I talked with a friend yesterday who explained to me a bit about the healing effects of ozonation (your drinking water or your own blood via IV circulation).

Allegedly, it may kill most pathogens (viruses, bacteria, fungi, etc...). Some people are rumored to be free of HIV, HPV, Hep. C, etc, after having their blood circulated through Ozone exposure.

 

[ghetto alchemist]

The lack of capacitive smoothing is probably where your brown sludge came from.
I've made hho cells which are powered by rectified 120vac, and the plates corrode much faster than true dc.

I only left the capacitor off because I was eager to start charging. It's easy enough for me to add one and observe for any difference.

Have you seen the brown scum form before in your own cells? It seems to me that you haven't, but if so surely you've heard other HHO guys talk about it before. Let me say that even though annoying to clean it out, it's pretty amazing to watch it form. It appears right before your eyes seemingly from nowhere, makes me wonder what the fuck is going on.

Also, I'll come right out and say it.....I think Moshe is completely full of shit.

Come on...don't pussy-foot around, tell us what you really think.

Take his words with a grain of salt.

Since he's now selling stuff, I always regard him as a slick salesman to be weary of. But I remember him from his early days when he contributed his research to various forums only for the sake of sharing. I've seen videos released by him back in those days of water with very thick surface tension like half-set Jello. That's all I'm aiming to replicate.

Seems like you have a lot of experience to offer on this topic. Care to share some more?
What setup of plates did you electrolyse with?
Use pure water, or electrolytes?
What voltages and currents did you work with?
Did you ever see any anomalous effects?

------------------------------------------------------

 

[theFool]

Have you seen the brown scum form before in your own cells? It seems to me that you haven't, but if so surely you've heard other HHO guys talk about it before.

I've seen it sometimes and interpreted it as electrode corrosion. What do "HHO guys" think about it? My opinion is that it is nothing but corrosion, but sometimes nature works in mysterious ways.