• The migration to this new platform is complete, but there are a lot of details to sort out. If you find something that needs to be fixed make a post in this thread. Thank you for your patience!

. OUR Natural Science Of The LIGHT

black

Hermes Trismegistus
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,349
Hi tAlchemist

The books say that the Stone is everywhere,
Thank you for these most special quotes tAlchemist, it is music to my soul that some members actually go to the trouble of reading Alchemic texts.

On the other hand I am appalled at the extremely high level of Alchemic illiteracy on this forum.

The meaning of illiteracy = lack of knowledge in a particular subject; ignorance.

One of the forums long term members commented to me recently that he felt a number of the members "just wanted it all handed to them on a plate".

He may well be correct. :D
 

Jimmy Rig

Invenies
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
479
Your order of quotess talchemist are from book of aquarius are they not? The author did do a good job of assembling some fine quotes in an easily digestible format!
I want to post a small quote here as well because I feel it has relevance to a) the stone is everywhere and b) we need to study and pray, pray and study to get ourselves out of the maze. I am still in the maze and thus continue to read, and pray and experiment. I am using my own resources and hopefully they will eventually lead to the goal but it may take some time. A fascinating journey nonetheless riddled with many interesting characters!

"Air, Water and Earth are only the immediate and subsequent consequences of the training of fire.
Light separated from his home, built up by loss of movement and repressed by a new and ongoing
emission of its substance, has given itself various forms which we have distinguished. In language,
the simplest of these forms were called Elementals.
The Earth that we cultivate not is merely the element that we make to represent it. It is not merely
made up of a great pile of debris from the bodies of the three kingdoms on the way to destruction; it
is true to say that it contains some portions of the first and elementary earth, because independently
of that which the water continually supplies her, she retains her own shape by her daily destruction.
So the end of all things resembles its beginning and death becomes the principle of a new life; this
is what the ancients recognised and experienced, and they have shown this to us under the form of
the snake biting its tail, in order to continue the remembrance.

So when you read some of the ancients tracts on the study of Nature, do not hear for 'element' the
raw substances, indigestible and deadly, as I just informed you, but look into the Centrum Centri by
some ingenious methods and by your own resources
; for thus the wise really want to prevent abuse
and the profanation of this science, by means of which society could be disrupted and destroyed. Do
not be afraid to engage yourself in the study of our science, and use all the efforts of reason in order
to deepen and know the mysteries, because this is the only way out of the maze in which you may
be slightly engaged.
"

-Recreations Hermetique

Thanks to the senior members for the bread crumbs.
 
Last edited:

black

Hermes Trismegistus
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,349
Here is part of an add I found on the web for a Ormus Drink.
FYI ... I'm not promoting it in any way at all.


Ormus , Monoatomic Gold, Ormus Gold... Created on the night of the last Full Moon observing strict organic protocols on a mountain in Australia`s beautiful Sunshine coast region overlooking the Pacific ocean.

Imprinted with solfeggio arpeggio frequencies and masaru emoto images, made with pristine Pacific sea water and organic, hand harvested, sun-dried Celtic sea salt.

Each 740ml (25 fluid ozs) bottle weighing 800 grams is made using the Alchemical Wet Sea method by a Master Alchemist.

Ormus created by Alchemical Elixirs is the Worlds Best Monatomic Manna. Alchemical Elixirs uses Organic Alchemy to create its Ormus.

It synchronizes Brain Hemispheres, increases Psychic ability and creates Joy, Health and longevity.
Alchemical Elixirs create its products for Naturopaths, Herbalists, and all types of Alternative Health and Ayurvedic Practitioners around the Planet. Try it now.

HERE IS WHAT WE BELIEVE
We have all heard the stories of ancient folk who lived lives of eight, nine hundred, and even a thousand years. In Chinese history the tale of “Master White Stone” teases us with his reputed age of three thousand years. The biblical Methuselah was reputed to be nearly a thousand years old. In the old renditions of the texts now “aprocraphal” it is related that Jesus was initiated into the order of Melchizedek by none other than Melchizedek himself. It doesn't dawn on any of us that Melchizedek is the ancient name of one of the sons of Noah and if still living at the time of Jesus, he would be nearly ten thousand years old. All this incredible stuff was closely protected by secret societies and not shared by the common people. Even the “Magdalene” women of Jesus time practiced ancient Egyptian religious sacrament practices which included making both water and oil preparations which were so incredibly healing that they would bring a person back to life. “Magdalene” seems to be able to be loosely translated as keeper of the water, is connected to much more ancient Egyptian religious tradition and has connotations to water of life or fountain of youth and is probably the foundation of the old myth of a fountain of youth. In fact, the fountain was probably a man made thing which produced “manna” which extended life to the extent of being eternal or unimaginably long.

Perhaps the promise of eternal life of believers was an actual promise carried out in ancient times and allowed to only a privileged few insiders who were able to take manna and live an eternal life, not a life after death at all. Perhaps dying wasn't included at all. In the old texts (included in the old testament) the story of Gilgamesh is repeated and his quest for approval of the gods and acceptance into heaven. When he gains entry into heaven, he is fed “manna” and gains eternal life. This hinting at extended life is all throughout the old texts and only later (the new testament) becomes a reward gained through death, but death is a later idea and perhaps wasn't considered desirable by the most ancient alchemists and priests. So what if there was something which would turn back the clock and bring your body back to life? Most people wouldn't believe you if you claimed to have discovered such a thing. You would have to “couch” such claims in scientific analysis and discussion. Under such scrutiny, the religious and mystical nature of such a discovery might be lost. As unbelievable as it might seem, the secrets of the old testament seem to have revealed themselves to a few people (Sir Lawrence Gardner and John Hudsen might be two) and their discoveries are now being repeated by many. This substance has been called Ormus or Manna for many thousands of years and is now reentering the popular consciousness as something that can actually turn back the clock and reverse the effects of aging. Of course, this has been known for many hundreds, even thousands of years by members of a few secret religious or spiritual societies who called themselves “Alchemists” and pursued the preparation of elixirs of life. The parallels between preparations of elixirs of life, waters of life, manna and life extension are amazing to those of us who have been studying these ancient ways. So we make Ormus! Alchemy is an ancient practice that continues to this day. Ancient cultures known to practice alchemy include the Sumerians, Egyptians, Phoenicians, Chaldeans, Babylonians, early Asian races, Arabians, Grecians, and Romans. For the Egyptians, alchemy was a master science, which they believed was revealed to them through their god Thoth, who was called Hermes Trismegistus by the Greeks. Therefore, alchemy is a Hermetic Art.

The goal of alchemy is to transform the base or common into the pure or rare. Put another way, alchemy can be considered to be the transmutation of matter into spirit. Alchemists sought the Philosopher’s Stone and the Elixir of Life, which were thought to impart higher spiritual consciousness, cure physical maladies, and confer eternal life. Alchemists believed that there was a hidden and higher order of reality, which constitutes the basis of all spiritual truths and all spirituality. Perceiving and realizing this higher order of reality was the work of alchemists – the Magnum Opus or The Great Work – the Absolute Realization.

To perceive this truth requires the consciousness to be radically altered and transmuted from ordinary (lead-like) level of everyday perception to a subtler (gold-like) level of higher perception, so that every object is perceived in its perfect form – The Beauty of All Beauty, the Love of All Love, the Holy of Holies, the Highest High.

This is a material and a spiritual realization at once. Alchemists work in three worlds: the spiritual, the elemental, and the material. As above, so below. As below, so above. There are precise correspondences between the visible and invisible, matter and spirit, planets and metals. Alchemists understand this basic truth so that while they are working in their physical lab creating their physical Stones and Elixirs, they are simultaneously working at the subtler levels. The Great Work is realized at the apex of the triangle where the three worlds meet.

Quantum physics tells us that matter has particle-like and wave-like properties, and that the subatomic “particles” that make up matter (protons, neutrons, and electrons) are really pure energy. Light also can either be a wave or a stream of particles called photons, packets of pure energy in which the amount of energy is directly proportional to the frequency of the light. New science, then, tells us that all matter, including our physical bodies, consist of forms of light and therefore is pure energy in essence. Matter is light whose frequency has been slowed down and lowered – matter is light of a higher density; matter is light that has become solid. Thus, drawing on the implications of modern physics, we can conclude that human beings are made of light held in matter. We are a light body as well as a material body.

The goal of alchemy is to transform the base or common into the pure or rare. Put another way, alchemy can be considered to be the transmutation of matter into spirit. Or matter into light. To transmute matter into light means to raise its vibrational frequency – from a base, mundane state (low frequency, dense, slow matter) to a pure exalted state (high frequency, high energy light). Within the Hermetic Arts, the Light Body is called "the immortal body," the soma athanaton. So, when alchemists create the Philosopher’s Stone or Elixir of Life in pursuit of spiritual and physical perfection and eternal life, they are creating substances that build up their light body into a strong immortal body. This is where the three worlds meet in exalted spirituality.

I continue this Great Work today.
I transmute matter of the noble metals and platinum group elements into their exalted light state where they are then used to build up the immortal light body to achieve spiritual and physical perfection. This exalted material is called Ormus and effects achieved include increased spiritual perception and psychic abilities, the balancing of the left and right hemispheres of the brain with experience of the “hu” sound, a higher perception of reality as interconnected and whole, and awakening the kundalini for a full incarnation of higher dimensional forces and energies, thereby strengthening and healing the etheric and physical body.
Increases Awareness
Boosts Neurotransmitter Production
Increases Metabolic Rate & Cell Rejuvenation
Anti-Aging Characteristics
Heals and Repairs DNA


ORMEs or Orbitally Rearranged Monoatomic Elements; also known as Ormus is the modern day term used by health and nutrition enthusiasts when referring to any suspension of precious metal elements of the electronic and nuclear orbits within the atom itself, thus the term Orbitally Rearranged Monoatomic Elements. Basically ORMUS or M-State materials are precious metal elements in an altered atomic state. Also known as White Powder Gold, Monoatomic Gold, Manna, Aurum Potabile, The Philosophers Stone and the Elixer of Life. ORMEs are found in every organism, including the human body. Monoatomic Gold, or Gold ORMEs has proven itself to be the most beneficial for general physical healing by a vast folklore and history as a superior healing agent and spiritual energizer. When natural source elements are transformed in to ORMEs they no longer carry their original toxic properties when ingested, but assume a nontoxic, easily assimilable form.

Although our Ormus is extracted from Sea Salts, we use a process that eliminates all the Sodium (Na).

Ormus purges the body of toxicity and impurities and boosts the body's natural healing ability.

It allows the body to receive greater amounts of spiritual energy also know as Chi, it supports proper nutrient absorption, balances your body's pH, repairs and regenerates cells.

Ormus is the Pinnacle of Vibrant Health & Nutrition for the Golden Age of conscious nutrient dispersion.

What can I say .... ;):):cool::D:p
 

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
7,636
Here is part of an add I found on the web for a Ormus Drink.
FYI ... I'm not promoting it in any way at all.

1. Cite the source please...

2. Since you say you're not promoting it, how is this related with your topic "Our Natural Science of the Light"?

3. Reminds me of the later stages of the Yahoo Ormus groups, when most posts were about advertising products.

4. I recall some users of Ormus claiming to have their BrainWaves measured, and they were allegedly able to reach deep meditative states within a few minutes of consumption. I never had such effects from Ormus, but then again I was never a regular consumer... Only tried it a few times in the mid 2000s and the only effect I recall was healing a common cold very fast (intense perspiration and then it was gone)...
 

black

Hermes Trismegistus
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,349
1. Cite the source please...
Just Google Alchemical Elixirs and several links will come up.

2. Since you say you're not promoting it, how is this related with your topic "Our Natural Science of the Light"?
Occasionally I will reference things I consider are not related to "Our Natural Science of the Light" to give readers a broader perspective.
The same way that I suggest where not to look for SM (Spiritus Mundi).

This is another example of a self proclaimed Master Alchemist ... these are not the types of places that Genuine Alchemy will be found.

3. Reminds me of the later stages of the Yahoo Ormus groups, when most posts were about advertising products.
Yes it started with the dollar and hasn't stopped yet.
To my understanding the Ormes /Ormus relationship to Alchemy started with one man scamming people and it still continues to this present day ... They (Ormes /Ormus) were supposedly discovered in 1975 by David Hudson, a cotton farmer from Arizona.

4. I recall some users of Ormus claiming to have their BrainWaves measured, and they were allegedly able to reach deep meditative states within a few minutes of consumption. I never had such effects from Ormus, but then again I was never a regular consumer... Only tried it a few times in the mid 2000s and the only effect I recall was healing a common cold very fast (intense perspiration and then it was gone)...
Chemicals can do amazingly good and amazingly bad things to the human body.

Alchemy is about a Living Quintessence ... Ormes /Ormus is not.

I'm not saying that amazing things can't be worked with Ormes or Ormus but what I can say is that they are not Alchemy. :)
 
Last edited:

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
7,636
Logistical Post

Cite the source please...
Just Google Alchemical Elixirs and several links will come up.

Not the point. Just please cite the source when quoting a text that's not your own. This issue (of posting quotes without referencing the sources) recently came up (again), and for good reason.

See Rules & Guidelines:

* Cite your sources when copying and pasting information into your post.
 

black

Hermes Trismegistus
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,349
Not the point. Just please cite the source when quoting a text that's not your own. This issue (of posting quotes without referencing the sources) recently came up (again), and for good reason.
OK ... HERE it is. :)
 

ghetto alchemist

Invenies
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
557
my understanding the Ormes /Ormus relationship to Alchemy started with one man scamming people and it still continues to this present day ... They (Ormes /Ormus) were supposedly discovered in 1975 by David Hudson, a cotton farmer from Arizona.
Yes Hudson was trying to capitalise on his discovery, but that doesn’t invalidate the body of his work.
So what if he was a farmer?

Yes, there are scammers trying to make a dollar by selling “ormus”, but so what?
There’s been scammers in allopathic medicine too....does that invalidate the entire corpus of modern medicine?

Alchemy is about a Living Quintessence ... Ormes /Ormus is not...... what I can say is that they are not Alchemy. :)
If you never made a transmutation or a transmutation stone, then how can you possibly say what is or is not alchemy?

You should google “logical fallacies” so you can understand and avoid using them in your argument/s against the ormus corpus. It really devalues your reputation when you try to support your position by posting stuff like this.
 
Last edited:

black

Hermes Trismegistus
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,349
Hi Ghetto

Yes Hudson was trying to capitalise on his discovery, but that doesn’t invalidate the body of his work.
Perhaps Hudson did "Discover" something e.g. Omes/Ormus and that's OK but then he started to pretend that it was Alchemy and that's not OK.

He may have actually believed that Omes/Ormus was Alchemic but it would be impossible for him to prove that as it has nothing to do with Alchemy.

This is where the Pretence starts to draw people into a total misnomer of his work by associating his discovery with Alchemy.

So what if he was a farmer?
Yes Ghetto it doesn't matter what he was ... it was a sentence I copied from the web primarily for the date (1975) and I should have cut that bit about "farmer" out.
I have nothing against farmers, if they want to work with Ormus or if they want to work with Alchemy then that's fine by me.

Yes, there are scammers trying to make a dollar by selling “ormus”, but so what?

The problem to me is that most of them are inferring that "Ormus" is Alchemic when it is not.
Alchemy has a history of healing/transmutation and these scammers are using this to suck people in to buy their products.

There’s been scammers in allopathic medicine too....
Quite true Ghetto and there are still scammers in "allopathic medicine". Too many.
I'm just trying to clear the BS away from Alchemy.

does that invalidate the entire corpus of modern medicine?

No it does not and I'm not invalidating Omes/Ormus but it is not Alchemy.

If you never made a transmutation or a transmutation stone, then how can you possibly say what is or is not alchemy?
Anyone that has collected SM (Spiritus Mundi) and has worked an Alchemic Process has then performed an Alchemic Transmutation.

This is not a Transmutation of Lead (Pb) to Gold (Au) but the Alchemic Processes are the same.

To be able to Transmute Lead (Pb) to Gold (Au) the Alchemist must be Adept at Multiplication (increase of Power) ... my Alchemy Teacher has explained this to me but has not shown to me the practice of it.

You should google “logical fallacies” so you can understand and avoid using them in your argument/s against the ormus corpus.
My arguments are not based on faulty logic, they are based on Proven Fact established by 30 years of Tested Alchemic Work.

What proof have you obtained that Omes/Ormus has anything to do with Alchemy ?
Have you collected SM (Spiritus Mundi) ?
Have you worked an Alchemic Process (a Transmutation) ?
Have you grown and continue to grow Quintessence in quantity ?

And if you have done these things then have you put all of this work to the appropriate Alchemic Tests for the Proof of your Work ?

If you have not performed these operations then your logic has no true foundation.

Logic = reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.
Validity = the quality of being logically or factually sound; soundness or cogency.

It really devalues your reputation when you try to support your position by posting stuff like this.
"Posting stuff like this" may well devalue my reputation by those that have very little understanding about Alchemy.

But those that have a clear and Proven understanding of Alchemy know exactly what I'm talking about.

I would be interested in hearing why you think that Ormes/Ormus has some relationship to Alchemy.

Is it because One (1) man said so ?

Again ... I am not invalidating Ormes/Ormus. :)
 
Last edited:

tAlc

Rectificando
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
286
If you never made a transmutation or a transmutation stone, then how can you possibly say what is or is not alchemy?
ghetto i think personally that anyone who has understanding of the way and was able to translate where to begin crossing matter in the physical world and has demonstrated that ability to himself is i think a reason for one to be able to talk with strong assertions because in that case he has every reason to believe and like 1% a reason to doubt, for me anyway

black talks about transmutation i think he talks about this too openly i think the whole mystery will be solved in like 5-10 years at this point that's how it seems to me, soon its gonna be like 50 or 100 solving it and if alchemy grows in popularity then 5000 or 10,000 , 50,000 or 100,000 and eventually growing up to the millions, i wonder if someone has experienced a glimpse behind the curtain he should be cautious i'm starting to think, about revealing what's behind it, and how to find the thread or clue that leads one there, the safest method i think is providing a guide for how one can experience no-mind as this is the work in the mind beginning but instead of with the physical matters it is done with you... even by saying too much with this method i find might be the safest i think there are also risks as well.

@Black lets say you do understand alchemy and what your saying about it is true and accurate, what do you think exactly ''stops'' someone from ''getting'' the ''message'' or by ''piercing'' the ''veil'' so to speak and figuring out some critical secrets the alchemists written about cryptically? what happens if it all starts here, the seed growing and eventually everyone starts doing it by the next 20-30 years because some people might be talking about what they've been finding too openly? EDIT: I suppose the answer will be, Divine Will, and anything that happens is therefore natural and in accordance with the Will of What Will Be.

(to be fair and to be ''DIPLOMATIC'' i will say again, ASSUMING that alchemy is real) lol!
 
Last edited:

ghetto alchemist

Invenies
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
557
Black:
What proof have you obtained that Omes/Ormus has anything to do with Alchemy ?
Have you collected SM (Spiritus Mundi) ?
Have you worked an Alchemic Process (a Transmutation) ?
Have you grown and continue to grow Quintessence in quantity ?
And if you have done these things then have you put all of this work to the appropriate Alchemic Tests for the Proof of your Work ?

When you say "collected SM", I assume that you're talking about concentrating SM to make the powerful solvent which can dissolve metallic silver and gold.
If so, then I have to answer "No" to all of the above.
But that just means I'm a seeker, the same as anybody else.

I would be interested in hearing why you think that Ormes/Ormus has some relationship to Alchemy.
Is it because One (1) man said so ?
Absolutely not because of the testimony of one man.
Because of the following:
= In the early days, a member of a rich family who made their fortune selling gold plating solutions told a member of the ormus community that "WPG is very close to the secret of alchemy, but not quite there".
= Congruency with texts who talked of a calx of gold, which matches descriptions of WPG.
= Congruency with texts which talked of not being able to return to metal after a certain point.
= Magnetic trap water has properties similar to descriptions of philosophers mercury.

I said it before....but I'll keep repeating....
IMO Hudson accidentally made a weak transmutation powder without realising it.
When he submitted his powder to tests to check the precious metal contents, the powder was partially transmuting the cupel or electrode metals into platinum group metals.
IMO the receipe for a weak transmutation stone is waiting to be seen by anyone who simply reads Hudson's openly published documentation.
tAlchemist:if someone has experienced a glimpse behind the curtain he should be cautious i'm starting to think, about revealing what's behind it
The curtain was lifted and the secrets behind were revealed decades ago my friend.
The secret keeps itself.
 
Last edited:

black

Hermes Trismegistus
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,349
Hi tAlchemist

@Black lets say you do understand alchemy and what your saying about it is true and accurate, what do you think exactly ''stops'' someone from ''getting'' the ''message'' or by ''piercing'' the ''veil'' so to speak and figuring out some critical secrets the alchemists written about cryptically?
It is a Divinely Guarded and a Divinely Gifted science.
 

black

Hermes Trismegistus
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,349
Hi Ghetto

When you say "collected SM", I assume that you're talking about concentrating SM to make the powerful solvent which can dissolve metallic silver and gold.
Yes Ghetto, it has to be captured and it may need to be concentrated.

If so, then I have to answer "No" to all of the above.
Thank you Ghetto for your openly honest answer.

But that just means I'm a seeker, the same as anybody else.
Yes and I am also still a seeker/student of the Great Work.
My view is if we have SM and can work an Alchemic Process then we are still around the first rung of the Alchemic ladder ... it is a long ladder with many rungs.

At this first rung level we are not privy to the practical knowledge of the Great Elixir or the Transmutation of Lead (Pb) to Gold (Au).

Absolutely not because of the testimony of one man.
Because of the following:
= In the early days, a member of a rich family who made their fortune selling gold plating solutions told a member of the ormus community that "WPG is very close to the secret of alchemy, but not quite there".
"WPG is very close to the secret of alchemy" ... did he Test his theory ?
I owned and ran an electroplating company for many years and there was nothing even remotely close to what I've seen in an Alchemic Process.

= Congruency with texts who talked of a calx of gold, which matches descriptions of WPG.
= Congruency with texts which talked of not being able to return to metal after a certain point.
= Magnetic trap water has properties similar to descriptions of philosophers mercury.
I said it before....but I'll keep repeating....
IMO Hudson accidentally made a weak transmutation powder without realising it.
When he submitted his powder to tests to check the precious metal contents, the powder was partially transmuting the cupel or electrode metals into platinum group metals.
IMO the receipe for a weak transmutation stone is waiting to be seen by anyone who simply reads Hudson's openly published documentation.
If you want to prove that Ormus is Alchemy then I can only suggest that you have an impossible task ahead of you ... it would be easier to find the Philosophers Stone.
Ironic really, because others on this forum been talking about what disasters will befall the world if the secrets ever get openly revealed.
There are many disasters about to befall this world ... Alchemy is at the bottom of the list.
The secret keeps itself.

There are Guardians that keep the secret. :)
 

Jimmy Rig

Invenies
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
479
Two thoughts I had in relation to Guardians;

1. I am pretty sure that brothers of the cross do check in on us as a sort of guardian as we are working.
2.There may also be adept alchemists in the flesh so to speak that interact with us through mediums such as the internet, in dreams or maybe in rare instances even in our physical lives.

(if a family member was an adept, they probably would not tell you straight up unless they had reason to, as an example.)

I say I am pretty sure about # 1. because I do encounter beings while in certain states of contemplation or while working around "the lab" (shed currently). No negative experiences thus far thank god.

As far as # 2 I say "may" because this is pure speculation on my part but it makes sense that some may be so inclined to interact with potential future adepts whether in the form of observation or discreet/disguised interactions.

Now some questions for the thread poster about alchemic processes.

Black,

Is obtaining of the crows head or celestial salts/mercury considered an alchemic process? I am assuming the gold test will tell us BUT can you be "working an alchemic process" before you get to the point of specifying said work? Lets say you are observing something which matches the descriptions of the texts but you are far from the end. Is there any way for the neophyte to know or is it a trial by fire sort of experience where you need faith and communication with the divine as well as a certain resourcefulness i.e. weighing the words of others that came before you for confirmations and comparisons. (This seems more likely to me.)

I am pretty sure alchemy truly starts not within our flasks but within our experience and perception which may eventually lead to physical conception.

Could this be what you inferred with "the universal work comes before the particular"

You will not be able to embark successfully on the works with "matter" until you have accomplished a certain other form of success in the way you navigate the realm.

Full disclosure, this is mostly intuitive wording coming out mixed with my own perceived understanding.

i.e. it is okay if anyone disagrees but perhaps we can get a fruitful chat going
:)
 

tAlc

Rectificando
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
286
Is obtaining of the crows head or celestial salts/mercury considered an alchemic process? I am assuming the gold test will tell us BUT can you be "working an alchemic process" before you get to the point of specifying said work? Lets say you are observing something which matches the descriptions of the texts but you are far from the end. Is there any way for the neophyte to know or is it a trial by fire sort of experience where you need faith and communication with the divine as well as a certain resourcefulness i.e. weighing the words of others that came before you for confirmations and comparisons. (This seems more likely to me.)

I am pretty sure alchemy truly starts not within our flasks but within our experience and perception which may eventually lead to physical conception.

You will not be able to embark successfully on the works with "matter" until you have accomplished a certain other form of success in the way you navigate the realm.

Yes. Your question is my statement that I'm trying to convey through Miyamoto Musashi's quote and the picture you see next to it, Ariadne's Thread. Once you pick up one end of the thread, you are able to unwind it until you find where it leads.

According to me and my experience, there is a peculiar process to the confection of the Stone. It develops in a way, and its development is only possible by an operator who understands the process of the Maco-Operator, because the operator or artist leaves the process to the Maco-Operator to accomplish for him, but the artist can only know to do something like that and when, if he understands why beforehand.
 

Kibric

Occultum
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 24, 2017
Messages
910
According to me and my experience, there is a peculiar process to the confection of the Stone.
Freakin A. Its that easy. Thank you tA
 

black

Hermes Trismegistus
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,349
Hi Jimmy

Is obtaining of the crows head or celestial salts/mercury considered an alchemic process?
For me the First Alchemic Process is when we join SM (Our Mercury) with it's Equal and we observe the Process of Death (Saturn), the Stone of Lead.

I am assuming the gold test will tell us BUT can you be "working an alchemic process" before you get to the point of specifying said work?
Yes ... an Alchemist would have to have worked an Alchemic Process before being able to Specify/Signify a Quintessence.

If an Alchemist is using the word "Specify" it would usually be a designation of a type of Quintessence as with a Signified or a Particular Quintessence.
e.g. Primum Ens Melissa = a Particular Quintessence of Melissa.

Lets say you are observing something which matches the descriptions of the texts but you are far from the end.
Is there any way for the neophyte to know or is it a trial by fire sort of experience where you need faith and communication with the divine as well as a certain resourcefulness
i.e. weighing the words of others that came before you for confirmations and comparisons.
Usually a student will not understand what is written in the books till he has collected SM and worked an Alchemic process as the books are written in Alchemic double speech.
There are Alchemists that have obtained the Great Work and do not communicate with the All Knowing but they have had their Understanding opened by the All Knowing.

I am pretty sure alchemy truly starts not within our flasks but within our experience and perception which may eventually lead to physical conception.
Could this be what you inferred with "the universal work comes before the particular"
The Universal Work is the work required to extract a Universal Quintessence.

Universal Quintessence is Open to be Signified ... it is like a stem cell that can be directed for what the Alchemist wants of it.

A Signified / Particular Quintessence is the coded (Soul) of a plant or animal or mineral/metal.
e.g. Primum Ens Melissa = a Particular Quintessence of Melissa.

The word Particular designates that the Quintessence has a Specific Code.
This is why specific plants are used for specific medicines to treat specific ailments. :)
 
Last edited:

Jimmy Rig

Invenies
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
479
Is obtaining of the crows head or celestial salts/mercury considered an alchemic process?
For me the First Alchemic Process is when we join SM (Our Mercury) with it's Equal and we observe the Process of Death (Saturn), the Stone of Lead.

"Thus is accomplished the first part of the axiom: solve et coagula, by the constant
volatilization of the fixed and by its combination with the volatile; the body spiritualized itself
and the metallic soul, leaving behind its stained garment, takes on another, even more
precious, to which the ancient masters gave the name of philosophical mercury. It is the water
of the two champions of Basil Valentine, whose manufacture is taught by the engraving of his
second key. One of these bears an eagle on his sword (the fixed body); the other hides a
caduceus (the solvent) behind its back.
The lower part of the drawing is entirely taken up by
two great spread wings, while in the center standing between the two combatants, appears the
god Mercury as a totally naked, crowned adolescent holding a caduceus in each hand. The
symbolism of this figure is easily penetrated. The large wings, which serve as boarded floor
for the fencers, indicate the goal of the operation, namely the volatilization of the pure parts of
the fixed element. The eagle indicates how to proceed, and the caduceus points out the one
who must attack the adversary, our dissolving mercury. As for the mythological youth, his
nakedness translates the complete stripping of the impure part, and the crown, the sign of his
nobility. Finally he symbolizes with his two caducei, the mercury duplex, epithet that some
Adepts have substituted to that of philosophical mercury or common mercury, our living and
dissolving water" ~The Dwellings of the Philosophers, Fulcanelli.

Yes ... an Alchemist would have to have worked an Alchemic Process before being able to Specify/Signify a Quintessence.

If an Alchemist is using the word "Specify" it would usually be a designation of a type of Quintessence as with a Signified or a Particular Quintessence.
e.g. Primum Ens Melissa = a Particular Quintessence of Melissa.

Interesting so it sounds like you need the rebis or philosophical mercury if you want to specify to the metallic realm "common mercury" x1 will not take the soul of the metal.
Your answer helped me with another question regarding the universal nature of the work. i.e. clarity on whether metals are needed or not.

For transmutation sure it makes sense to specify to silver or gold.

Even if we do not intend to specify to metals the most appropriate test of our mercury is the gold test, since mundane matters will have no effect on such.

Seems like if you do this right you get a stone or powder for transmutation (particular, specified, signified but on the foundation of the universal)
and a tincture for medicine (universal, unspecified, married to itself.)

"Universal Quintessence is Open to be Signified ... it is like a stem cell that can be directed for what the Alchemist wants of it."
Hence why it is called our living waters?
Does this sum up your expressed point?

Strictly technically speaking, he's not "wrong"... Just saying...

Matter of perspective I suppose :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
7,636
According to me and my experience, there is a peculiar process to the confection of the Stone.
Strictly technically speaking, he's not "wrong"... Just saying...
Matter of perspective I suppose :)

Hmm... Not much "perspective" here IMO... tAlchemist's statement is so incredibly vague, it's basically almost universally applicable :)

But ultimately, this is Black's thread and maybe he will opt to comment on tAlchemist's above quoted statement, if so inclined.
 

Jimmy Rig

Invenies
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
479
Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
Quote Originally Posted by tAlchemist View Post
According to me and my experience, there is a peculiar process to the confection of the Stone.
Freakin A. Its that easy. Thank you tA
Strictly technically speaking, he's not "wrong"... Just saying...
☀⇢|⇠☀





Well sure there could be! Consider the vantage point of him/her who knows innately how to get to where he/she is going juxta positioned next to one who literally just looked up the word alchemy and philosophers stone. According to ones level of own experience , technically it could be "that easy" or as an alternative we can take note of kibric's on-the-nose sarcasm and remark that to most it is anything but that easy.

"According to me and my experience, there is a peculiar process to the confection of the stone."

A peculiar process to one could be a gargantuan hurdle to another.

I guess this is why the assistance of the divine is so helpful in discovering and working with the light.
 

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
7,636
Logistical Post

Dear Jimmy Rig, I believe you can do better with the insertion of quotations in your posts :)

It should look like this:

According to me and my experience, there is a peculiar process to the confection of the Stone.
Freakin A. Its that easy. Thank you tA
Strictly technically speaking, he's not "wrong"... Just saying...

NOT like this:

Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
Quote Originally Posted by tAlchemist View Post
According to me and my experience, there is a peculiar process to the confection of the Stone.
Freakin A. Its that easy. Thank you tA
Strictly technically speaking, he's not "wrong"... Just saying...
☀⇢|⇠☀
For the sake of intelligibility and orientation, please, let's keep things reasonably legible, as well as explicitly sourced/referenced to the person/s who is/are quoted.

Thanks.
 

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
7,636
I guess this is why the assistance of the divine is so helpful in discovering and working with the light.

The "divine" is also a rather vague blanket term IMO, open to everyone's particular interpretations.

Just for example and hypothetically speaking (not saying or implying that's the case here), some may believe they're directly communing with the Absolute & Ultimate Source of All That Is, when in fact they may be chit-chatting with the spirit of a failed alchemist who feeds them lots of rigid dogma amidst some partial truths, all blended in with their personal interpretations. It can be a "tricky" business, this "divine" business. Just saying... Until the Great Work is truly and fully "consummated", there really is no telling, even IF the various "signs" or "tests" appear to support the proposed model.
 

Jimmy Rig

Invenies
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
479
There are a few things I could blame for a poor quality quote post but I will reserve this knowing full well no body likes excuses.
I shall try not to muddy up the threads further.

In regards to the divine,

Yes I would agree that it is tricky business. Personally I am okay with it being a blanket term as we all have our own way of relating our experiences Alchemy or otherwise. I tend to tie alchemical success as a gift of grace given to the alchemist by God or the divine. But this is my own slant so to speak and is not to disparage anothers unique perspective.
(On a side note, are our beliefs simply how we would like it to work?) until I know with 100% certainly what any term rightly means I will unfortunately have to accept blanket terms and view them from my own position.