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. One Matter - One Vessel - One Fire

Andro

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Now that the cat is slowly crawling out of the bag...

I want this to be a special thread, so everyone please lend a hand to make and keep it so...

This is a PRACTICAL thread, related to the most simple and Universal of all Works: One Matter - One Vessel - One Fire.

This is about the Practice by which the Stone may be had by anyone with a good understanding of nature, at close to zero expenses and with barely any need to put your hands to it. No complicated devices or technical/chemical skills required!

I have a few simple requests for posting on this thread:

* Please ONLY post here if you (not someone you know or heard of) are physically performing (or have performed in the past or are currently preparing to perform) this most simple and Universal of all Works, as described in the thread title.

* NO philosophical debates and quarreling over opinions and interpretations. Let's make this about sharing, not fighting... so don't post here if you have a problem with diversity. We all have a common goal, and we're dreaming this together.

* NO quoting of any writings other than your own, with the exception of quotes being plainly and directly related to the aforementioned practical Work.
If the relation is not plainly and readily clear, then please explain/clarify it yourself.

* If you desire to present a certain abstract concept, you must CLEARLY explain how it is directly related to your pactical work. Don't leave it hanging!

* Everything you post here MUST be based on your own practical experience. Not anyone else's! If you're not actually doing this Work, then please don't post here!

* Simple and easily intelligible posts, written in plain English. No parables, riddles or cryptic messages, please!

* NO preaching, NO book/allegory/myth/bible thumping please!

Examples of topics to be discussed here:

The nature of the First Matter(s) and how/where it is to be obtained at its fullest potency.

The nature of the preliminary preparations of the Matter.

The nature/material/shape of the Vessel, and how it is to be most efficiently sealed.

The nature of the External Fire which moves the Internal one, and how it is best attracted/focused/concentrated.

The stages you have observed your Matter to go through in your Vessel.

Please remember that noone is asking anyone to reveal more than they are comfortable to...

Mr. Solomon Levi / Moderators - your help in keeping this thread's integrity will be greatly appreciated.
If this thread turns out to be a failure, I'd rather have it deleted than having it miss its purpose. I hope you understand...

Let's see where it goes from here...
 
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Andro

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OK, no response yet, so I'll go first :)

I have (so far) worked with four different Matters in the same way.

The Matters are Dew, Urine, Sweat and Saliva.

When put to the fire in their proper vessel, they all behaved in a similar way, by eventually separating into a white section and a red section all by themselves.

However, they all putrefied differently before being put to the fire, since two of the Matters turned completely black at the end of putrefaction, whereas putrefying the other two Matters resulted in lighter shades.

Here, there's a starter.

Come on, bring out your aphorisms!
Unless you think it's still too early to thread this path :eek: ...
 
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LeoRetilus

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OK, no response yet, so I'll go first :)

I've worked with four different Matters in the same way.

The Matters are Dew, Urine, Sweat and Saliva.

When put to the fire in their proper vessel, they all behaved in a similar way, by eventually separating into a white section and a red section all by themselves.

However, they all putrefied differently before being put to the fire, since two of the Matters turned completely black at the end of putrefaction, whereas putrefying the other two Matters resulted in lighter shades.

Here, there's a starter.

Come on, bring out your aphorisms!
Unless you think it's still too early to thread this path :eek: ...


I have often contemplated using sweat and tears since they are both salty and I sense them to be quite useful. As well as anything of a human origin that contains our DNA as I beleive this is where the hidden light of man resides. I've often thought about burning my hair as well, since there seems to be some highly alchemical associations with it in the bible...the story of Samson and Delilah comes to mind, plus I read the other day that they are finding a high degree of mercury (vulgar) in peoples hair especially in white/grey hair.

But as for the theme of your thread here..no offense to you or anybody else personally, you know I have the utmost respect for you, but I'm sorry I just don't see the need to try to conform to a particular dogma, such as the one fire, one flask, one matter hooplah, bruhaha. The notion that a "real" alchemist does it this way alone is absurd to me, Geber was a real alchemist and he invented practical lab alchemy and a great deal of the body of modern chemistry in the process all for the purpose of making alchemy more accessible to people who didn't live close enough to the prima materias that other alchemists might have been talking about that could be utilized/achieved with the one fire one pot bs, really this notion is stone aged to me and we should abandon this idea for the same reason .....to make alchemy more accessible. Plus what Geber did by showing us that the three principals can indeed be had from all matters, and illustrating the four elements in the process through lab work: dissolution, putrefaction, circulation, calcination, etc..etc..is what makes the art of alchemy into a science, which is what is absolutely mandatory in this day and age. I hope I haven't sullied your aim much , Sol feel free to erase this post if what Androgynus had in mind develops.
 
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Andro

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Leo, I absolutely agree with you on the uselessness of being dogmatic :)

And the respect is absolutely mutual :)

But this thread is one of many, after all... That's what diversity is all about...
And I never said this is 'The Way' or that this is how 'Real Alchemists' do it... Someone else may have said/implied that in other threads, but not me.
Like I said before, there are many ways to rectify a cat :D

one fire one pot bs

Here's where I disagree... It's not bs in my experience.

I've often thought about burning my hair

And how right you would be! Dry distillation of hair can be brought to manifest the 'Virgin Milk' containing the spirit and volatile salts able to dissolve gold into an oil...
I am currently using a very powerful and rejuvenating elixir made by dry distillation :)

The three principals can indeed be had from all matters.

True and without doubt!!!

But my purpose here is to focus on just one approach out of many, NOT to invalidate all the others. The last thing I am is dogmatic. I am placing focus on this approach right now because I personally believe it can make rewarding results accesssible even to the least technically/scientifically inclined. I myself am personally also working on other paths, which are by the way much inspired by your posts and the correspondence with you ;)

[...] a different or more modern angle to consider some of the alchemical processes that we have been reading about lately. And maybe this will lead to more work with dew and more specifically extracting the mercury principal from where it originates, the air or in my opinion, the aether(vacuum).

Altogether quite similar to the approach I am presenting here: It does, indeed, originate in the Aether, it's parented into our realm by the Sun and the Moon, it's carried and further concentrated by the atmosphere (air) and even further concentrated in our Vessel by Art. So our methods may differ, but I see no disagreement of principles whatsoever :)

[...] you'd be doing yourself a great service by reading this entire page and following all the links, especially this one:Air Trap

From the above link and in light of my own results posted above, the following text speaks for itself:

"The Philosopher's Stone [...] is a process of evolution through death and rebirth brought about by the captured Mercury. It is clearly described as being NOT available to simply pick up off the ground or extract as ready-made Philosophers Stone. The Mercury in the air, (read Life), when bonded to a matter gives a 'philosophical vitriol', a salt of unusual physico-chemical properties. This is digested and it separates into a red and white 'Mercury' - as oils, and a solid. These in union gave rise to the evolutionary process described by so many alchemists. In fact it is the manipulation of the white and red that is the beginning of most tracts. They assume you already have these."

The point is that these substances are the same, they haven't changed their nature since the beginning of time, the only thing that has changed is humans, they come and go, and call things by different names.

AND use different ways to manifest them.

But in my experience if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then most likely it's a duck.

It most certainly is! Quack! Quack! Quack! :D

Sol feel free to erase this post if what Androgynus had in mind develops.

I see no need to erase this post. It's an important one. I'd rather have the friction and differences naturally iron themselves out, before this thread - hopefully - starts to generate its own spin and gradually comes closer to the heart of the matter it was intended for.
 
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Ghislain

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I have been working with dew, saliva and water from the Ganges but used them
all in the sea salt method as described by ***.

The process name

I think this is where it all went wrong as none of these flasks went into any black
stage.

I may start over without the salt.

Ghislain
 

Salazius

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Hi Androgynus,

The 'one fire, one flask, one matter' idea is very interesting. In my knowledge I know only one process where we put one matter in one vessel and we apply one fire, until when could reach the end of the process. But saying that there is only one fire ... no, there is the vulgar fire, the philosophical fire, the secret fire, the fire of reaction in the matter ...
And often, you need several flasks, several manipulations and often several kind of matters to make "one matter".
 

memphis_mizraim

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I have worked with the GW but never managed to get the alkahest dissolve the Gold.
I seem to be missing some key. Everyone on here seems to have completed this or have they?
 

Andro

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I seem to be missing some key.

I designed this thread with the hope that all the neccessary keys for this simple work will be gradually revealed here :)

I'm also aware that pictures can't really prove anything - but I do however intend to post some here, when I feel the time is right for me to do so.

I'm aware this can be quite a challenge for those who are more experienced in this Art - walking the fine line between gentle guidance and spoonfeeding major revelations to the recipe hunters lurking out there. And I'm not refering to this thread alone...
 
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Andro

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The 'one fire, one flask, one matter' idea is very interesting.

I know :)

In my knowledge I know only one process where we put one matter in one vessel and we apply one fire, until when could reach the end of the process.

And please feel free to share as much as you are comfortable to about this, so those who are ready will be able to discern...

But saying that there is only one fire ... no, there is the vulgar fire, the philosophical fire, the secret fire, the fire of reaction in the matter ...

Please consider the concept of there being only one fire that manifests in the different ways/names that you mentioned, as it passes through its various incarnations.

And often, you need several flasks, several manipulations and often several kind of matters to make "one matter".

Indeed, there are many such working processes, but they are not the ones I am focusing on in this thread.

I myself am very NOT technically inclined, so my desire for simplicity has evolved out of the neccessity to succeed in spite of my being relatively technically challenged :)

And thank you very much for your contribution(s), I was already starting to lose hope with this thread :)
 
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solomon levi

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I only have experience with gw and I haven't gone too far with that.
The only white and red I'm aware of are the ammoniacal/nitrous salts
(which can be white or reddish - the red I achieved but not following the
1 matter rule) and the thick, oily coagulated gw by evaporation.
Does one vessel imply that distillation is not allowed?

What are the red and white of gw in your experience Androgynus?
 

Ghislain

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I have a demijohn 3/4 full of putrefied GW. The 1/4 I reduced over heat to see what I would get...never again...the smell was awful.
Well never say never...I kept looking at it sitting there and thought, "what would happen if I added sugar and yeast". So that’s what I did...
I have a bubble trap on it and I threw in a couple of spoons of KNO3 for good measure.

There is very little logic in this, but it may be interesting.

Ghislain

Edit: There was a tiny bit of logic in the KNO3 as people have stated in the past that a high potassium diet before collecting GW is good.
 

Andro

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The first step (after collection) is putrefaction and afterwards physically getting rid of what the Matter has already expelled/dropped by itself as non-homogenous.
Ab Roek's words come in handy here:

Putrefaction occurs in order to separate and purify. That which truly belongs together, cannot be broken by putrefaction.

After the Matter has gone to the bathroom for Number Two, it is put to the Fire.

Does one vessel imply that distillation is not allowed?

If by distillation you mean a separate retort and receiver, then the answer is no, this kind of split distillation is not needed for this path. One Vessel only :)

In the Vessel I've designed, the internal Mercury circulates inside the Vessel vertically and the external Mercury circulates through the Vessel horizontally. Like in my attic :)
However, the more subtle parts of the external Mercury also penetrate the glass walls of the Vessel from all sides, and they are further concentrated therein by Nature and Art.
It's way more simple than it sounds... And there can be many different designs able to perform the same functions exactly.

By very slow and controlled simultaneous circulation and coagulation by Art in the same vessel and fire, a White starts to slowly manifest by itself within the red-brownish, which red-brownish also starts growing more towards dark Red. This (in my case) happened much slower with GW than with Dew, for example...

Care must be taken in the temperature department, so that nothing of essence permanently sublimes.

Each matter that I've subjected to this process behaved slightly differently than the others, but ultimately resulted in the manifestation of the Red and the White.

What are the red and white of gw in your experience Androgynus?

I would say that the White are the (niterous) salts and the Red are the oils (sulphurs), but their initial separation in the vessel is not performed by hands, but rather occurs on its own, by gentle and natural 'cooking', mediated by the Mercury from within and from without. Quite fascinating to observe...

From all the Matters I used, rich fat Dew was the most 'compliant', but the others performed as well, with Saliva coming in second...

It's not easy to collect the Matter in a good saturated state. With Dew, there are seasons, astrological and environmental conditions to be observed. With Microcosmic Matters it's even more complex, because there are also dietary factors in play. For good reason it is often advised to collect micros from healthy young men, so the life force is in full power and concentration. But even if you're older, if you've converted/sublimed the life force of youth into wisdom and extasy, you won't go wrong :)

All and all, the process itself is quite easy (although not fast), but one must have high quality starting material to work with.

After that, it's simply a matter of Solve & Coagula, until the matter reaches its desired fixed and unified state. It may also be necessary to go through a few cycles of Solve & Coagula before the White and the Red become separately manifest, and further cycles for them to unite.

I would also love to experiment with condensed vapors from a cave or a mine, or any sort of good quality condensed Air, for that matter...
 
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Andro

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Ghislain,

If you want your GW to contain some extra ingredients, add them to your diet, not to the GW directly.
Potassium and Magnesium are excellent, as well as the foods outlined by Leo in the 'Success' thread.
 
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Rueb

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I only have experience with gw and I haven't gone too far with that.
The only white and red I'm aware of are the ammoniacal/nitrous salts
(which can be white or reddish - the red I achieved but not following the
1 matter rule) and the thick, oily coagulated gw by evaporation.
Does one vessel imply that distillation is not allowed?

Hello,

actually by using liquid ammonia you used a chemical very close to our matter.
The spirit of GW is just that and much more. Of course this requires distillation.

Anyway I think through distillation the rule of one vessel isnt broken, but more advanced. Distillation is a simple way in this path to get rid of the excess phlegm without evaporating off our spirit.

It should be possible to do that in one vessel if you simply evaporate off the phlegm before putrefying it however I havent confirmed that by myself yet.

Rueb
 

Andro

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Anyway I think through distillation the rule of one vessel isnt broken, but more advanced.

It's not a rule, only an speciffic approach :)
And in this speciffic approach, distillation is not required at all, let alone more advanced.

Distillation is a wonderful tool, but it's absolutely not required (but rather even counterindicated) in the method I'm trying to focus on here...

Distillation is a simple way in this path to get rid of the excess phlegm without evaporating off our spirit.

I believe you're refering to the liquid alkahest/circulatum methods, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
There are plenty of other threads and posts focusing on the liquid alkahest/circulatum.

In the '1/1/1' approach, the principles are eventually coagulated into one uniform, non-liquid mass.

It should be possible to do that in one vessel if you simply evaporate off the phlegm before putrefying it however I havent confirmed that by myself yet.

Both Head (Phlegm) and Tail (Feces) are cast off by the matter during putrefaction without any special interference, if the nature and the placement of the Vessel are in agreement with its purpose. But on the other hand, I see no problem with the variation of evaporating some phlegm before putting the Matter to putrefy. I didn't do it, but it doesn't mean it's not a valid variation.

Maybe it's more tightly knit
If you spit before you shit


:)
 
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Rueb

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Both Head (Phlegm) and Tail (Feces) are cast off by the matter during putrefaction without any special interference, if the nature and the placement of the Vessel are in agreement with its purpose. But on the other hand, I see no problem with the variation of evaporating some phlegm before putting the Matter to putrefy. I didn't do it, but it doesn't mean it's not a valid variation.

Maybe it's more tightly knit
If you spit before you shit


:)

Head (Phlegm): Beheading, volatile principle
Tail (Feces): salamander, fixed principle

Quite far fetched however it struck my mind immediately.
 

Andro

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Head (Phlegm): Beheading, volatile principle
Tail (Feces): salamander, fixed principle

Quite far fetched however it struck my mind immediately.

You're right in that the matter casts off/rejects both fixed and volatile parts during putrefaction, but only the superfluous ones.

After putrefaction and separation of the superfluous, the homogenized starting matter still contains both fixed and volatile principles, but only the ones which are essential to complete the Work.

As for beheading and betailing - that's because it's the homogenous trunk/body we're after.
 
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Rueb

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The matter is supposed to come from one source but in order to strengthen it, it has to be introduced to the metallic kingdom and multiplied. So I am a bit lost on this specific path.
 

Andro

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The matter is supposed to come from one source but in order to strengthen it, it has to be introduced to the metallic kingdom and multiplied. So I am a bit lost on this specific path.

For now, this thread is meant to focus on making an Universal Ferment/Alkahest - but after it's completed, it can be introduced into any of the three kingdoms.

No need to feel lost - let's just take things one step at the time :)
 

Rueb

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Ok our matter put into a big glass vase covered with a porous (earthen) lid best at body temperature (but not above 40 to 50°C), wait a few months ...

hmm... impurities... it has to be decanted at some point...
...maybe even less heat, simply put outside to evaporate through the earthen lid, during spring or autumn, when it doesnt freeze but it gets cold enough for crystals to sprout and warm enough for the phlegm to evaporate...

ok, restart
we take our fresh matter put it an earthen, porous (unglazed) vessel, sealed. Put it outside in the spring (may) or autumn (september), for 1 month.
decant the solution during a warm day (25+°C) after 2 weeks and keep the decanted solution.
after another 2 weeks the solution hopefully evaporated slowly enough that you will find sprouted crystals.

Rueb
 

Andro

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Mr. Rueb,

Some interesting ideas and connections there, but:

These conjectures are insufficient to make our Magnets fat, heavy and saturated with the First Matter (Corporified Light) which is the key to this whole Work.

Our Magnets can be of of various grades, depending on the chosen materials and on the conditions of their birth, and they already contain the First Matter within themselves.
However, they only have barely enough of this Corporified Fire to perform the vulgar functions of the 'common' cycles, and are therefore in need of constant replenishment.

Our Magnets need to cast off all superfluities, so they are most naturally attractive and conductive to become fat and heavy and most saturated with our First Matter.
In this regard, some Magnets are better than others, in that they contain more Corporified Light to start with.
The more they have of it in the first place, the better and the sooner they attract more of it.

And when our Matter is fat and heavy and satiated with this Corporified Fire, it will be truly married with itself and will also stand the test of common fire/heat.
(By flowing like wax on a hot plate without fuming, for example... I use a copper plate with a candle underneath for this test, but some texts recommend silver...)

So, I would suggest to take things one step at the time, and not jump straight ahead to formulas and recipes...

As a matter of fact, I am personally against posting formulas and recipes, because without truly understanding the work from within, the recipes would most likely fail.
I would rather use this thread for building, gathering and sharing insights that will help those who's eyes are open to create their own processes/variations.

Please keep in mind that even if 'All Roads Lead To Rome', the roads can still be different and diverse, but nevertheless lead to the same place eventually.

Therefore, I'd like this to be a joint effort in understanding and creativity, so everyone can taylor their own path through the insights gained here.

So why don't we start by talking a bit about putrefaction...

What are we trying to achieve through putrefaction?
What is putrefaction, and what causes it?
Why is it such a neccessary stage in our Work?

We know that one of the most efficient ways to make something rot/putrefy is to leave it ouside in the open, exposed to the sun and the air.
But then our matter would be lost by evaporation...

Then again, leaving our matter in a vacuum sealed vessel is not very likely to produce the rotting/putrefying results we're after...
Vacuum is rather preserving, and we don't want that...

So how are we to properly putrefy our Matter without losing or spoiling it?

Let's start with these questions, and move on from there...
 
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solomon levi

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"So how are we to properly putrefy our Matter without losing or spoiling it?

Let's start with these questions, and move on from there..."


Naturally, we are not allowed to add anything to catalyse the putrefaction
in your methods, correct?


Putrefaction occurs in sealed containers. I putrefy my urine in wine bottles
indoors all the time. Remember something in the GW thread about when
air is allowed we get more nitrates and when not allowed we get more ammonia, I think it said.
 

Andro

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Naturally, we are not allowed to add anything to catalyse the putrefaction in your methods, correct?

Not anything that isn't already being provided by and through our Matter, Vessel and Fire.

Putrefaction occurs in sealed containers.

There is more than one way to seal a container. Mr. Rueb posted some interesting ideas. Some texts recommend to putrefy in wooden barrels with access to Air/wind.
Bacstrom's Oak Stoppers also come to mind:

The globe glass is immediately to be shut with a stopper made of oak, which fits nicely, in order that the superfluous remaining humidity (the phlegm) may, during the putrefaction, penetrate and evaporate through the pores of the oak.

Also, regardless of how I seal my vessel, I never fill it more than 1/3, to allow for enough space/Air (medium, feedback, communication) for the Matter to negotiate with itself which parts to keep and which parts to reject as superfluous.

When air is allowed we get more nitrates and when not allowed we get more ammonia.

Have you found one to be more desirable than the other?

Is there a middle way?
 
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solomon levi

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Have you found one to be more desirable than the other?

No, but I haven't researched the nitre side as much as the ammoniac salts,
so I can't say. From what I've done myself so far, I find the ammoniac salts
very useful - ability to carry spiritual part of metals over the helm; ability
to make strong menstruums/alkahests - KM, etc.
I simply don't know how to use the nitre salts due to lack of study in this area. I'll have to remedy that.

Is there a middle way?

Ammonium nitrate?
Maybe mix the two together??
 

Ghislain

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Mr. Rueb,

leaving our matter in a vacuum sealed vessel is not very likely to produce the rotting/putrefying results we're after...
Vacuum is rather preserving, and we don't want that...

So how are we to properly putrefy our Matter without losing or spoiling it?

Just recently while putrefying GW I put one of those fluid traps on top to allow it to breath...not sure if that was good or bad.

Ghislain