. 'One Matter' - Empiricism & Alchemy - Discerning Truth from Deception

[Andro]

Matter is Substance.

So one would need to reach a state of empirical verified ultimate and 'eternal' truth to ultimately answer this question.

And what if the underlying Sub-Stance of ALL empirical phenomena (including so-called "matter") is in itself non-empirical/non-physical (i.e. no Cartesian coordinates) and incommensurable?

 

[Florius Frammel]

And what if the underlying Sub-Stance of ALL empirical phenomena (including so-called "matter") is in itself non-empirical/non-physical (i.e. no Cartesian coordinates) and incommensurable?

Then I only hope this interesting concept is not non-proofable too.

I can only assume that you talk about the "form/matter-concept" that's in quite some alchemical treatises. Sometimes it's compared to the "spirit/body-concept".

The Donum Dei for example says the "matter suffers the cause", wheras the form acts as an Agens in order to equal the matter to the form (is the effect).

Basil Valentine goes further in his "de microcosme" and includes a third part to the duo above, which is "movement".

 

[Awani]

And what if the underlying Sub-Stance of ALL empirical phenomena (including so-called "matter") is in itself non-empirical/non-physical (i.e. no Cartesian coordinates) and incommensurable?

It's a solid thought as opposed to a fluid one.

For example there are some unwritten rules in certain cultures that are set in stone to such a degree that breaking said rules is almost unthinkable. This is a microcosmic version of what I mean by "solid thought". Everything is non-physical. Some things appear more "matter" (more "physical") only because the "idea" of "that thing" is "set in stone".

"No two minds ever come together without a third invisible force, which may be likened to a 'third mind'. When a group of individual minds are coordinated and function in harmony, the increased energy created through that alliance becomes available to every individual in the group." - Napoleon Hill

This might not be the debate in question, but as far as I am concerned it is.

 

[Florius Frammel]

For example there are some unwritten rules in certain cultures that are set in stone to such a degree that breaking said rules is almost unthinkable. This is a microcosmic version of what I mean by "solid thought". Everything is non-physical. Some things appear more "matter" (more "physical") only because the "idea" of "that thing" is "set in stone".



This might not be the debate in question, but as far as I am concerned it is.

There used to be an experiment with a group of monkeys or apes. They placed food at a special place above ground and when a monkey touched the food, he got an electro shock. Of course after some time none of the monkeys ever tried again. Then one of them died and a new member became part of the group. He eventually wanted to get the "special food from above" but the others held him back. After some time, none of the original members who actually experienced the shock were alive anymore. None of the monkeys who lived after those dared to grab the food from above, or stopped each new member from trying.

 

[black]

I will repeat THE question:

WHAT is "matter"?

I'm still waiting to see if someone can come up with a genuine and logical explanation (as opposed to a mere "description").

Light.

 

[Kiorionis]

Light.

Hmm, I think that works as a definition. Do you also have an explanation for why matter is light?

 

[black]

Hmm, I think that works as a definition. Do you also have an explanation for why matter is light?

As Light is reduced in frequency/vibratory rate ... it comes to the point of being
palpable.

The Light I am writing of here is not the light of the sun ... but the Light of All.

 

[Andro]

Logistical Note

This thread has been relocated to "Practical Alchemy".

I sort of initiated this thread, and it is my wish and intention for it to be focused on the definitions and implications of "matter" in actual Alchemical Laboratory Work and its empirically measurable/tangible results.

 

[z0 K]

And what if the underlying Sub-Stance of ALL empirical phenomena (including so-called "matter") is in itself non-empirical/non-physical (i.e. no Cartesian coordinates) and incommensurable?

Cosmic Egg Metaphysics:

"When you can open the Point after distilling sufficient Shen you will see All that exists, All of existence extends from Points on the surface of the Cosmic Egg. The Points are located next to each other and since they are without dimension the surface of the Cosmic Egg is without dimension. The surface of the Cosmic Egg consisting of emerging points is a dimensionless continuum. At the surface all of the Points are tinged with complexes of pure quality from the subsurface plasma making each combination a unique individual. At the surface pure unique quality is caught by the potential difference It creates with matter/energy. Matter/energy clings to It pulling It into the Macrocosm. There It moves through the power of energy and persists through the substance of matter.

Matter and energy are one in the Macrocosm. Matter exists as gross qualities manifest as substance. Energy exists as subtle qualities manifest as power. Qualities are non matter/energy; Qualities are subjective Points to which matter/energy clings thus manifesting the Universe. The Universe is mysterium conjuctionis of the Microcosm of Eternity unfettered by the limitations of dimension and the Macrocosm limited by space/time continuum manifestations."

 

[Andro]

complexes of pure quality from the subsurface plasma

Thanks for the input!

How would you define "pure quality"?

How would you define "subsurface plasma"?

 

[z0 K]

Thanks for the input!

How would you define "pure quality"?

How would you define "subsurface plasma"?

You're welcome

Pure Quality is the essential manifestation of Anima/Spiritus Mundi, Soul/Spirit, substance and power. "The essence of every thing is a projection perpendicular to the surface of the Cosmic Egg. As each and every one of these individual surface qualities of the ONE Cosmic Egg move away from the surface they separate connection from each other except at the source—the surface of the Cosmic Egg. Once the quality has projected from the surface It becomes one manifest and transcends the Microcosm. The cycles of matter/energy cling to It and the thing is created in the Macrocosm."

The Power of Quality is analogous to Qi, Jing and Shen, the Three Treasures within Spiritus Mundi: generally Continuation, Creation and Coagulation so to speak. The three are essential to the expression of the Thing which is the Soul of It as Substance considering substance being Soul/Spirit/Body.

"Beneath the surface of the Cosmic Egg qualities are fused akin to Microcosmic plasma. This fusion is the transcendent mystery of the great mother Void Chaos. At the center of the Cosmic Egg is ONE Eternal Point that is No-Thing, the great father of All, from which your eternal essence springs."

 

[Avatar]

The most subtle object I would say is that which makes up the fabric of space. Spatial existence. The space between planets and objects. The space between atoms.
That which you would call *nothing*.
That is the supreme subtle.
As for humans. Medicine is simply that which can rebalance the body and help it heal. An elixer of life is that which increases the life in the body. The base fuel increases. Not like a sugar high or any other high no no. A legitimate increase that lasts long after the dose was taken. A second dose increases the life again. An lasts long after the dose is taken. Life does not dwindle quickly. Testosterone will make you feel amazing, however stop taking it and the effects vanish quickly. As with all medicine and drugs. A substance which increases life is increasing it by changing the body on a base level.
It would be a long lasting effect because the dose fundamentally healed the body in one way or another.
On that exact note there are two options. Superhuman until you die of old age. Or immortality and superhuman.
The third option would be pure immortality through human manipulation. Which is what science is trying to do.
The super human part comes from increased life. You don't just stop dying, you increase life. It is like stuffing the power, the joy, and mental capacity of 10 humans in 1 human. An that's just the weak sauce.
Bottom line.
A substance that can do that is the elixer of life.
An elixer of life.
A whole medicine.
The ability to manipulate and recycle all substances.
That will lead us into a new era.
However there are still natural occurrences.

[...] Note: Spin-off continued HERE.

Point is.
The magic is here. Find it.
Cause it's always been here.
It's not new.
-------------------------------------------------

 

[Seraphim]

"Some Philosophers would have it one thing, and affirm, that the Salt of Metals is the Philosophers Stone; Others say, all's in Mercury that the Wise-men seek; and again, others do teach, that the whole Art depends in and upon the true preparation of their Sulphur, as being the most perfect of the three principles, whose Orbs must be thrice turned about, as in my three Figures and Celestial Wheels: and some would have it one thing comprising the nature of two, as a Hermophradite or Embrio moreover, some would have it absolutely two things, as Male and Female, Fire and Water, or Water and Earth, Sulphur and Mercury, or Heaven and Earth.

Some likewise would have it consist of three, Salt Sulphur, and Mercury; Sun, Moon, & Mercury; Body, Soul, and Spirit; Others would have it the four Elements, and say, the Conversion of them is the whole work. And some again would have it a fifth Essence and a Quintessential Spiritual Body; and say their Mastery and Mistery consists in these five numbers, 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5. as in my said Epitaph and Circular Scutcheons appear, thus comprehended, in and by the Chaos and Products.

All which nevertheles, I acknowledge is really but one onely thing, or Essence in the Root, viz. the Philosophers Mercury, although out of two or three particulars, or more in kind; and one operation of several parts, as in my said Epitaph, and Circular Figures comprised: Nay indeed may be but one onely particular thing, and one continued simple and single operation, when duely prepared and superfluities removed.

But if one onely thing be taken, then it is divided into several parts; or if several things be taken, they are brought to one and so may it be said of the Operation, which all being but one, the Philosophers nevertheless are pleased to distinguish it by its several Progressions, Colours, and Properties, intimated by, and within the said three figured Circles and their Titles; all agreeing with this old Enigma of Vitriol, which being in many of the Metallick kind, is and hath but one thing or substance; and although but one, yet may be opened, divided, and having several parts; and being done, be brought to one again in one single and simple operation of Nature;

Thus,

V.I.T.R.I.O.L.V.M.

Visit the interiours of Earth, Rectifying,
And you shall find the hid Stone, and true Medicine."

- The Philosophical Epitaph of W.C. Esquire