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Manuscript Quest: Secrets Of The Golden R+C

True Initiate

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Logistical Note: Continued from HERE.
________________________________

I need to translate it first. But if you want it I hope to get it done in the next few days. Maybe longer.

I have that book but Bernhard Beyer has translated only the first two steps of that process and he skipped the rest. In the 8th degree there was a recipe for "Elixir of Life" and Bernhard Beyer skipped it too!
The original documents containing all the secrets of Golden R+C which Bernhard Beyer found were destroyed in bombing raids during WW2.

There are only two copies left in the world that i know of of complete secrets of Golden R+C. If you guys are interested i could dig up their exact locations but it will cost you a pretty penny to get them scanned.
 

Florius Frammel

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We've crowdfunded stuff before. We can do it again :)

Would be interesting indeed. Maybe I am in. But the reason why Beyer only gave (in my book three) two steps is, that he found out that the rosicrucians just copied the practical work out of widely available old alchemy books. Unfortunately he doesn't tell from which ones. The Compass of the Wise and the Aurea Catena Homeri are one of the main influences of the rosicrucians in Germany, according to Beyer. These instructions at least in that detail however are not found in these books.
 

True Initiate

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We've crowdfunded stuff before. We can do it again :)

This could end up in hundreds of dollars just for the MS in handwritten old german which i can't read, then we would need to pay a transcriber to convert it into modern german and finally a translator for the english version.

I've been through all of this before with Aleilius and his publishings and it is a very costly endeavour.
 

Florius Frammel

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This could end up in hundreds of dollars just for the MS in handwritten old german which i can't read, then we would need to pay a transcriber to convert it into modern german and finally a translator for the english version.

I've been through all of this before with Aleilius and his publishings and it is a very costly endeavour.

I'd really like to see this handwriting, maybe it is not so complicated for a native. These manuscripts should not be so old that there are complicated grammer issues. The deciphering of the handwriting -if bad- would be a bigger problem.

And the instructions are not very long. I could transcribe some if I could read it. Maybe I could do some translation work as well but I won't be fast.
 

Andro

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This could end up in hundreds of dollars just for the MS in handwritten old german which i can't read, then we would need to pay a transcriber to convert it into modern german and finally a translator for the english version.

Gonna make a new thread for this.

At how much would you estimate the total cost of this operation?

The deciphering of the handwriting -if bad- would be a bigger problem.

This could indeed be the biggest challenge...
 

True Initiate

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At how much would you estimate the total cost of this operation?

It all depends on the people who are in possesion of those MS. My suggestion is to only cherry pick few Chapters left out from Berhard Beyer's book for those manuscripts in order to reduce the cost.

Let's start with the good news. The first group of people who are in posession of those documents are swedish branch of modern R+C
https://rosae-crucis.net/eng/

I swapped few manuscripts with Tommy Westlund for the instruction of the 4th grade on how to prepare a stone according to the wet way. If you manage to persuade them verbally maybe you could obtain them for free.
 

Andro

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Luckily i have a pdf copy of this book but since most of you don't speak German it's useless for you.:cool:

It may be useful to a handful of people here... Myself included :)
 

Andro

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The second location of MS is the German secret archives institute.

You're could PM me the full title (in German) and the MS number if so inclined (or even post them publicly), I live in Berlin and I could go there in person and check at least if it's available for scanning and if the quality of the calligraphy is readable-decent...

Even if it doesn't "fully deliver" on the "big secrets" of the practical work (I suspect it doesn't), it would still be a valuable addition to our available database.
 

Awani

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...since most of you don't speak german it's useless for you...

Don't be too sure. I don't think English only speakers are the majority here. Also reading a language is different than speaking or writing. Personally I can read way more languages than I can speak. Write I only master two. For more advanced texts google translate goes a long way.

:p
 

True Initiate

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Ok, Andro and Florius Frammel check your pm boxes. The exact address of those MS is buried in the book somewhere but i am busy today to search it myself. I am jumping in and out discussion every 1 hour when i take a 5 minute break.
 

alfr

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beyr grade golden rc
HI tp very good idea very interesting very good idea to complete the book of beyer me too i am agree in this new projet of scannig all document and after made a transcription and translation the part that that beyer not have transcription

I am also happy to share the project of scanning and translating RC documents and transcribing and translating missing parts
excellent sign me among the participants in the project I very gladly join the
tp very good idea

regard
 

Andro

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I can work the Berlin angle. May take a while, but sounds like a worthy project.

Perhaps Mr. Awani would be so kind as to work the Swedish angle?

The first group of people who are in possession of those documents are Swedish branch of modern R+C
https://rosae-crucis.net/eng/

I swapped few manuscripts with Tommy Westlund for the instruction of the 4th grade on how to prepare a stone according to the wet way. If you manage to persuade them verbally maybe you could obtain them for free.
 

True Initiate

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For those who don't know all the details the first 3 degree of Golden R+C you can find in this book translated by RAMs which was originally published in 19th century by someone who found the instructions accidentally on a train:

[link broken]


The instructions begin on page 33, just skip the first first 32 pages!

The instructions are identical with those MS translated by Bernhard Beyer. Bernhard Beyer has translated most of the initiation rituals of all 9 degrees but he skipped the practical alchemy instructions to our great disadvantage.
 

Florius Frammel

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@Andro
It is GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1723: 5. Grad Minor

How the lab should look like is to be found here:

GStA PK, FM, 5.1.4 Nr. 4240: Varia zur Rosenkreuzerey

Other interesting sources (too many to post them all here) I found in the book:

Recipe for the antimonial tincture:
Federico Gualdi, Composizione della medicina universale
(Should be found in an italian library)

Tinctura Macrocosmi
GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1780

@True Initiate: Thanks!
 

Andro

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@Andro

It is GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1723: 5. Grad Minor

How the lab should look like is to be found here:

GStA PK, FM, 5.1.4 Nr. 4240: Varia zur Rosenkreuzerey

Other interesting sources (too many to post them all here) I found in the book:

Tinctura Macrocosmi
GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1780

So these Manuscripts are supposedly all found in the "Secret Archives" in Berlin? Are those the Ms numbers I should be looking/asking for?

PS: I am also posting during/between work sessions, so I don't always reply in "real time".
 

Florius Frammel

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Yes, you should get the manuscripts with those codes. There are a lot of other interesting manuscripts concerning our topic at around similar code numbers, just look into the book TI sent us. But I guess we should focus on the 5. Grad Minor as it deals with the the Spritus Mundi -or at least gives detailled instructions about how to work with the setup some of you posted in that thread. Besides, even the three steps Beyer describes are already so clear and useful to find out if there is anything worthwhile in that process.

Edit: Andro, if you go there and you happen to have the chance to make a pic of one page with your mobile, it could be helpful.

Maybe a good starting point when discussing with the swedish guys would be to offer the possibility of a transcribtion and translation of those parts for free, if it is possible to read it.
 
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True Initiate

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Florius if you could locate instruction for the 8th degree on how to prepare the "Elixir if life". I only know that this specific instruction was given to the 8th graders.
Sometimes there were special instructions given only to some members of the order but not to the others. Each grade contained general and secret special instructions.
 

Florius Frammel

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GStA PK, FM, 5.2 D34 Nr. 1745: 8. Grad

It is described being pretty long, exhausting and repetitive. With the need of lots of chemicals and time. It is also reported that some lost their life in doing this work. Therefore learned doctors, pharmacists and other experienced "chymists" were allowed to join the orders for free (but had to help the others avoiding injuries and deaths).

Edit: Andro, it is not necessary to look for the manuscript described as "how a lab should look like", as it is useless and already can be found at Beyer.
 
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True Initiate

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Thank you so much! Yes, there are very grim stories in that book, suicides and the story of a young man looking for sternschnuppen (stardust) for months on end without finding them which is believed to be a form of algae. You can find the complete instruction in the 7th degree in the book by Bernhard Beyer.

I would love so much to read the instruction for the "elixir of life". I remember few years ago when i was reading Berhard Beyers book for the first time and realized that he has skipped the actual instruction i hurled the book at the wall in pure anger since i knew that original MS were already destroyed and that it would be almost impossible to find another copy (which i later did) but i got caught up in other things and never got one.

I almost forgot about all this...
 

Florius Frammel

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Thank you so much! Yes, there are very grim stories in that book, suicides and the story of a young man looking for sternschnuppen (stardust) for months on end without finding them which is believed to be a form of algae. You can find the complete instruction in the 7th degree in the book by Bernhard Beyer.

I would love so much to read the instruction for the "elixir of life". I remember few years ago when i was reading Berhard Beyers book for the first time and realized that he has skipped the actual instruction i hurled the book at the wall in pure anger since i knew that original MS were already destroyed and that it would be almost impossible to find another copy (which i later did) but i got caught up in other things and never got one.

I almost forgot about all this...

I found out about Beyer when reading the book "Die Erleuchteten" by Karl Frick which is a huge work about occult circles from ancient to recent times. Frick skipped all the instruction though and said they are found in said book by Beyer. To my own surprise there I found out that the first step of the 5th grade was a clear description of the work with that kind of setup mentioned in some posts of the spiritus mundi thread, so I posted it there.

Does anyone have a digital copy of Beyers work? That would be helpful too.
 

True Initiate

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I don't have digital version of Beyers book but maybe Alexbr has it. I think this MS deals also with Spiritus Mundi but i can barely read it.

Update:
I have found the transcription of the text on my hardrive from years ago: [link broken]