Making gold and getting away with it

Gold Making & Selling: Safe or Not?


  • Total voters
    13

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
8,262
If you want enough to live on for the rest of your life, selling home-made gold may not be the best idea. Especially if you're immortal. LOL.

Consider that gold prices are probably regulated to stay low, consider that selling it "discreetly" may involve dubious intermediary types (so you will get even less than market price), consider that for a million dollars (for example) you would probably need to sell gold quantities in the 3 digit kg range... That's A LOT of gold making/selling... and one million dollars is not THAT much nowadays...

I wouldn't even consider it... I'm sure there are smarter ways to live from this craft, if so inclined :)
 

Florius Frammel

Lapidem
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
1,183
I'm sure there are smarter ways to live from this craft, if so inclined :)

For example?
Selling books about the great work, or opening schools, or a new branch of Neo-Rosicrucians and similar ideas seem to be not so smart either.
 

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
8,262
Selling books about the great work, or opening schools, or a new branch of Neo-Rosicrucians and similar ideas seem to be not so smart either.

None of the above. Those are not smart either, indeed. One would need a totally different line of thinking for such an endeavor.
 

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
8,262
Would you risk to unveil the secret for such an endeavor?
It's not a secret. There is no secret. It's just a very different way of thinking when approaching this subject. I guess we'll see when/if we get there...
 

Florius Frammel

Lapidem
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
1,183
It's not a secret. There is no secret. It's just a very different way of thinking when approaching this subject. I guess we'll see when/if we get there...

Would you risk to unveil how to think in a very different way to provide graspable results for anyone then?
 

tAlc

Terrae
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
310
If you want enough to live on for the rest of your life, selling home-made gold may not be the best idea. Especially if you're immortal. LOL.

Consider that gold prices are probably regulated to stay low, consider that selling it "discreetly" may involve dubious intermediary types (so you will get even less than market price), consider that for a million dollars (for example) you would probably need to sell gold quantities in the 3 digit kg range... That's A LOT of gold making/selling... and one million dollars is not THAT much nowadays...

I wouldn't even consider it... I'm sure there are smarter ways to live from this craft, if so inclined :)

Why would one need to sell their gold discreetly?

In a modern society like we have today, how many people are really hunting down True Genuine Gold-Making Alchemists? Back in the day, more people believed in it, and hunted people down for it but not even most government agents believe in such ''fairy tails''... If one kept going to a simple Pawn Shop and collected Cash for his Gold, I suppose a maybe better question would be, could one live off of pure cash for the rest of his life, or simply depositing $100k monthly/yearly with no explanation to how he got all this money in the first place (if a cop or judge, or tax department should ever press you to answer for it)
 

tAlc

Terrae
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
310
For example?
Selling books about the great work, or opening schools, or a new branch of Neo-Rosicrucians and similar ideas seem to be not so smart either.


If someone is in the *know* and is under the impression that what you are teaching in these very school is genuine, you might find yourself to be a hunted alchemist, who'll be kidnapped and tortured for the information he has regarding the Great Work. People are silenced all the time unfortunately.

I think this is what Andro might have meant even partially when he said isn't smart. You don't want people believing you are a genuinely true alchemist, no one wants that attention for the awful risks that it entails.
 

tAlc

Terrae
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
310
Exactly. Remove the wealth from those in power. When society crashes those with skills to survive will flourish. What do you do to clean a dead forest, you burn it down. And a new world will rise from its ashes. Yes, lots of white people will suffer... but it would only be fair for the West to be a bit raped, considering the amount of raping we are doing.

The Amazon. The Outback. And such places. Go there till shit blows over. ;) Those that can make gold: make tons and drop it on every street corner

:p

why would specifically only ''lots of white people'' will suffer? I know a lot of good-for-do-nothings from all races.
 

tAlc

Terrae
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
310
I have tried this in the past. It works, but you need a load of discarded electronics to make any kind of profit. And not all electronics contain gold. It is mainly things like CPUs, motherboards and cell phones.

How much gold did you manage to collect?
 

tAlc

Terrae
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
310
LOL... if you are smart enough as to make gold, but stupid enough as to ignore what to do with it... then you have to analyze your existence. This thread is a bit bizarre.

Well, if you had a bunch of gold, and you're an Alchemist, wouldn't you be paranoid about being found out? Making too much gold can draw suspicion, but what if ''too much'' is a matter of opinion? What if $500,000woprth of it is just right to pay for ones debt and expenses but one wants to do this without being questioned, or feel like they're attracting unwanted attention?
 

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
8,262
The PTB are stepping up the regulations game all the time. New "updates" appear all the time. Limits to cash transactions, having to show ID above certain (relatively small) amounts, etc... In some locations/countries, pawn shop owners are required to report anything "suspicious". Not just for gold selling, but pretty much for everything. Whenever I need to exchange Euros for some other currency when traveling (I barely use credit cards unless absolutely necessary), I look for "change points" that don't ask questions or ask for ID. There still are a few... You just have to find them... One country I visited last year has recently limited cash transactions to the equivalent of 2500 EUR... And it's not the only one... I'm not "evading' taxes or anything, all I do is legal, but I hate it when "they" have to stick their noses in my private affairs... And I would REALLY like to see ANYONE depositing 100k monthly or even yearly without raising those red flags...

Why would one need to sell their gold discreetly?

In a modern society like we have today, how many people are really hunting down True Genuine Gold-Making Alchemists? Back in the day, more people believed in it, and hunted people down for it but not even most government agents believe in such ''fairy tails''... If one kept going to a simple Pawn Shop and collected Cash for his Gold, I suppose a maybe better question would be, could one live off of pure cash for the rest of his life, or simply depositing $100k monthly/yearly with no explanation to how he got all this money in the first place (if a cop or judge, or tax department should ever press you to answer for it)
 

Dendritic Xylem

Invenies
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
618
It wouldn't be too difficult, at least here in the U.S.
Keep the sales under $10k to avoid triggering a tax form with the dealer. Only accept cash.
Fuck capital gains taxes....just ignore them. Innocent until proven guilty.
If they can't prove how long you held the gold, they can't prove how much speculative profit you made.

If the buyer in the shop starts unnecessarily demanding personal info, just walk out. It isn't illegal to do so.
Remember, owners of pawn/gold/coin shops are often the types that dislike paying taxes also.
Most of them probably don't care about reporting unless it's in amounts that are required by law.

If you never tell ANYONE, and sell just $2k worth once a week in a large city outside of your own....you could make 6 figures a year (tax free) and avoid authorities. Of course, you will need to be discreet with your spending. A frugal person can get away with this lifestyle. But many people will screw it up by drawing attention with their spending.

Unfortunately, 'they' will eventually eliminate cash and go full digital social credit system to more easily track everyone...like China is doing. Then we'll have to go through hoops in the cryptosphere to hide transactions, if it's even still possible. This is why my goal in life is to minimize costs of living until one can live comfortably on very little money.


Another idea....if you can grow plants in very little time (days, not months) using alchemy...then farming could become VERY lucrative. :D
 

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
8,262
Even if you have the cash, it is becoming increasingly difficult to spend it outside the system (banks, etc...). Can one pay monthly bills/utilities in cash in the US?

Another idea....if you can grow plants in very little time (days, not months) using alchemy...then farming could become VERY lucrative. :D
That's starting to come a bit closer to the "different" line of thinking I was talking about earlier.
 

Kibric

Occultum
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 24, 2017
Messages
980
The problem isn't selling small amounts of gold currently, there's all sorts of creative accounting that can be done.
Its how are you able to attain regular amounts of a finite substance with amazing purity.
People can catch on quick. When people smell opportunity they can become dangerous.
You wouldn't get away with it for ever. The whole venture is ill conceived for an alchemist who's art revolves around secrecy.
tumblr_lph0u1p8bi1qfvq9bo1_1280.jpg
 

Awani

Magus
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
11,075
It boils down to a philosophical and existential question regarding value, worth and happiness.

The ability to be able to make vast amounts of gold can be as much a blessing as (most probable) a curse. We all need "some" money to get by, but money is not a very good "reason", "meaning" or "dream"... and if it is... well... dark times a head. If a human being does not have a healthy understanding (part wisdom, part love and part self-knowing and self-awareness) regarding WHATEVER pursuit is made, then that "dream" will become a nightmare.

To study alchemy in order to make gold is (to me) the same thing as studying economics in order to make money at the stock market (latter method way quicker). No difference.

If a person has wisdom and knowledge one needs very little money at all. If one can make and create everything one needs, what good is gold? Money and gold (as a value or payment method) is just a "tool" to make trade easier. That is all it is, or was. Physical wealth is totally overrated. Immaterial wealth is priceless... and the only thing you might have a chance to "take with you" when you die... but that Porsche.. it ain't going nowhere.

:p
 

Awani

Magus
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
11,075

:p
 

Kibric

Occultum
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 24, 2017
Messages
980
For example, the oldest coin currency that we know is a Sumerian bronze piece dating from before 3000 BC. On one side of the coin is a representation of a sheaf of wheat, and on the other, Ishtar, the goddess of fertility. The Sumerians called it the "Shekel" where "She" meant wheat, "Kel" was a measurement similar to a bushel, hence this coin was a symbol of a value of one bushel of wheat. (The word "shekel" survives in modern Hebrew as Israel's monetary unit.) The original shekel had as its purpose payment for sacred prostitution at the temple of Ishtar, which was the temple of life and death. The temple, as well as being a ritual center, was the storage place for the reserves of wheat that supported the priesthood, and also the community in lean times. So farmers fulfilled their religious and social obligations by bringing their contributions of wheat to the temple, and receiving in exchange a shekel coin, entitling them to a visit with the temple prostitutes at the festival time. All this also must be understood in its cultural context: The sacred prostitutes were representatives of the goddess, and intercourse with them was intercourse with the goddess of fertility herself, nothing to take lightly. At that time fertility was truly a matter of life and death. If the crops failed, there was no alternative, and everyone starved or at least went hungry until next year. And, of course, completing the magic ritual properly insured the fertility in crops, animals and children that was necessary for future prosperity.

The shekel is by no means atypical: Throughout history, virtually every society has conferred some mysterious sacred qualities on its currency. Two thousand years after the Sumerian shekel, the first Greek coins were tokens proving that a citizen had paid his dues and could thus participate in the annual "hecatomb" or sacred meal to be shared with the Deities (where half of all victuals were burned in their honor). The English word "money" derives from the Goddess Juno Moneta and the first Roman mint was in the basement of her temple.

Many centuries later, without the need for further clerical intervention, gold and silver remained respectively symbolically associated with the sun and the moon. Their prices settled mysteriously into a stable ratio of 1/13.5, astrologically determined to reflect the heavenly cycles. These two metals remained divinely ordained currencies, long after the astrological justification was forgotten. There are many people who, to this day, claim that "real" money would be a return to the gold standard; some even keep invoking its biblical origins.

http://www.stim.com/Stim-x/10.1/origins/origins.html

Hmmm...

Futurama-Fry.jpg
 

Awani

Magus
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
11,075
For example, the oldest coin currency that we know is a Sumerian bronze piece dating from before 3000 BC.

LOL, that's nothing. We used shells to buy clams back in the day, pre-"civil" society... which reminds me of this:


Although an interesting concept, at the end of the day, value is a choice... for instance I prefer jewellery made from silver above those made from gold, even if the latter was "worth" more. Why? Because I think silver looks less tacky as jewellery than gold. For me - in that example - gold has less value than silver.

Maybe getting off track...

If I pretend I want to, and I actually do, make gold - then the fact of the matter is that it's probably easier to make the gold, than it is to sling it.

:p
 

tAlc

Terrae
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
310
The problem isn't selling small amounts of gold currently, there's all sorts of creative accounting that can be done.
Its how are you able to attain regular amounts of a finite substance with amazing purity.
People can catch on quick. When people smell opportunity they can become dangerous.
You wouldn't get away with it for ever. The whole venture is ill conceived for an alchemist who's art revolves around secrecy.
tumblr_lph0u1p8bi1qfvq9bo1_1280.jpg

hit the nail on the head with that one i suppose.

i suppose one time could just go to different pawn shops all over the city, province, state, country, (that would be like 10,000+ pawnshops) and like what Dendritic Xylem suggested, to be further discreet, sell gold in prices under $10K, and one could virtually do this as many times as one wishes as long as he goes to many different other pawnshops, rarely going to the same one more than once or twice and if one finds he has visited all of them (which should take years) then simply start over.

This to me, should avoid suspicion in selling gold because who can keep track of one individual selling to a store individually... no one would notice, the second question would be how would one live off of a gold-selling life style.... acquiring cash is one thing but living off of gold and cash, and no one noticing is another.

Could One Live Off Of Unlimited Cash For Life, No Questions Asked?
 

elixirmixer

Thoth
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
3,376
Well, I just lost a whole day to watching Cavemen. lol
 

Awani

Magus
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
11,075
Could One Live Off Of Unlimited Cash For Life, No Questions Asked?

Ask Jacob Rothschild if that is possible... you can pay him a visit at his house and ask him. I'm not sure where it is, but it looks like this:



Although I guess some sort of milkshake made from baby feet and fox cum is needed.

Well, I just lost a whole day to watching Cavemen. lol

To indulge in the microcosm of a joke in honour of the macrocosmic Joke is never a bad thing.

:p
 

elixirmixer

Thoth
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
3,376
Tried to stop watching. Failed.
 

Dendritic Xylem

Invenies
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
618
Can one pay monthly bills/utilities in cash in the US?

Yes, multiple ways. First, you can have a bank account and debit card. As long as you don't deposit more than 2 or 3k in cash, there will be no Suspicious Activity Report filed. If you deposit more than that up to 10k a report is filed, but isn't required to be given to the IRS...only held in case they need to investigate in the future. Deposit more than 10k and then they are required to send a report to the feds. So just keep your balance in the four digits and only use the account to pay bills and online purchases. Minimize your activity and it won't be reported...at least for now.

You also might be able to use cash to purchase a gift/debit card locally. I think you can get $200 gift/debit cards, and they work for online purchases as long as it's a universal debit and not some specialized gift card. Not sure if you can make partial payments on a large bill with multiple cards. There might be prepaid cards with higher maximums.


Edit...But even if we lose the ability to pay bills ourselves, we can always pay a friend or relative to use their card/account. Just give them 20% interest and don't tell them the true origin of the cash/gold.
 
Last edited:

elixirmixer

Thoth
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
3,376
I think the most realistic and long term approach would be what Andro mentioned about using it to dramatically increase farming yeilds and reduce leed times.

Imagine if you could increase the Frankensense germination rate from 1 - 2% to 90%. You'd make a killing. as an example.