Flat Earth & Alternative Space Models

[Awani]

Recently did an interview with the President of the Flat Earth Society for the podcast. This as well as discussing Flat Earth in other parts of the Internet, looking at the proof/debunking etc... has led me to the conclusion that Flat Earth Theory is: a very nice theory and that is it

All the "proof" that Flat Earthers have of why the Earth is flat lack one thing: a basic understanding of math, science, size and gravity (to name a few).

I am all for questioning reality and try and see it from different angles, but never has a Flat Earth "proof" felt stronger than a Flat Earth Debunked "proof".

So from my point of view the Earth is a globe.

The "triangle evidence" in the above video is the best one IMO.

 

[Dwellings]

The actual truth behind "Flat Earth"

NASA Flat Earth DBA Strategy http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1810

Another nice NASA thread http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1424

 

[Awani]

The actual truth behind "Flat Earth"

...is that it is in fact a globe. LOL!

NASA/satanic/illuminati "proof" is not enough to prove it is flat IMO. The only proof you need is simple science.

The flat earth people might as well say Earth is a triangle. At least then it would fit more with the Illumianti logo.

 

[Dwellings]

I recommend you go through the Apollo section of cluesforum , I guarantee that you are going to have a lot of fun. I never thought along satanic lines though

 

[Awani]

Conspiracies bore me too much. Most of the time they are inaccurate. And the rest of the time they are just coincidences. Out of perhaps 100 conspiracies there is only 1 conspiracy... and that 1 is usually something to do with trying to cover up some money or war plan, which is not really a conspiracy but just the normal way politicians do business. No surprise there.

 

[JinRaTensei]

Conspiracies bore me too much. Most of the time they are inaccurate. And the rest of the time they are just coincidences.

sounds almost like a conspiracy to me ^^.I don´t know which conspiracy theories you entertain or what is your definition of a conspiracy theory but in my experience it has been almost the complete opposite, almost all conspiracies I entertained turned out to be "true" even those I did not personally believe in..politics without conspiracies is not possible
maybe we are just looking at different material or maybe you have some kind of bias,maybe I have a bias myself but

which is not really a conspiracy but just the normal way politicians do business. No surprise there.

than,imo, it is a conspiracy plain and simple.just because it has become daily routine does not make it less of a conspiracy...I could literally name you a hundred conspiracies who have turned out to be true just in the last 5 years in politics alone not even talking about history fraud,science fraud,withholding of inventions and energy,poisoning of food and soil etc etc.

 

[Awani]

Sure but it is boring and irrelevant. IMO.

People want to waste hours a day chasing conspiracies. Why don't they spend hours a day tracking down every normal asshole in the town they live instead?

It's easier to put some dickhead neighbor in place and teach him some manners, than try and get Obama & CO to change their ways.

I know what conspiracy means, but to me a conspiracy is "secret". To me 9/11, and the USA war machine plans and the Taxation Scam and such things are neither secret nor illogical. They are crystal clear. Not really a conspiracy. A conspiracy would be more like: did the record industry cover up and help Courtney Love kill Kurt Cobain? Could be? Maybe not? Impossible to know.

But World Bank, Federal Reserve, Taxation, Bush Family etc... that is nothing "secret"... at least not to someone that can add 1+1.

I'm rambling... like those conspiracy nuts.

 

[JinRaTensei]

I 100% agree with you on that ^^, it truely is a dualistic mindgame, a distraction from the fact that unveiling conspiracies does not change anything if people do not change as a whole.

 

[Awani]

Yes. Some Flat Earth dude I talked to said it was liberating to know the Earth was flat. Which is fine for him. The Elite is trying to cover up the fact that the Earth is flat. Why? I have not heard a more pointless and meaningless thing to do.

If I was the CEO of Illuminati Worldwide I certainly would rather want people to entertain such nonsense rather than considering the fact that daily the government is shoving its invisible cock up their asses and extracting - with threat of force and violence and death - a large % of everything they make... because if they don't people will loose their minds and chaos and cannibalism will rule the streets.

LOL!

A mind set free is Anarchy to the so-called Elite. That is chaos in their eyes. But order in the eyes of the mind set free.

 

[zoas23]

If I was the CEO of Illuminati Worldwide I certainly would rather want people to entertain such nonsense rather than considering the fact that daily the government is shoving its invisible cock up their asses and extracting - with threat of force and violence and death - a large % of everything they make... because if they don't people will loose their minds and chaos and cannibalism will rule the streets.

LOL... I actually knew a lady who was close to being the CEO of *Illuminati Worldwide* (LOL... I still laugh at the fact that we still talk about the Illuminati as a *right-wing* and *authoritarian* organization, when they were the opposite); the owner of one of the top 10 biggest private banks in the world.

Having a bank that exists in maybe 100 different countries made her travel a lot by plane.

She was 100% convinced that the Earth was flat... and talked with me about it several times; mostly trying to show me why I was an ignorant (I don't think she believed in a *conspiracy* of *round earthers*... she mostly considered that everyone was ignorant and wanted to open the eyes of other persons).

My biggest question was: "How the hell she manages to run a worldwide company, a bank, believing that the Earth is flat?????".

 

[Awani]

I still laugh at the fact that we still talk about the Illuminati as a *right-wing* and *authoritarian* organization, when they were the opposite...

The left was Bavarian Illuminati, the right is the Illuminati. But I prefer to call them Babies in Suits.

 

[JinRaTensei]

The Elite is trying to cover up the fact that the Earth is flat. Why? I have not heard a more pointless and meaningless thing to do.

actually, imo, it is not so pointless but quite genius if one is to entertain certain perspectives.it is believed that the reason for covering up the nature of a flat earth is to hide god.think about it.this is not about flat vs round but geocentric vs heliocentric.if the world revolves around the sun than we are just one planet in billions nothing more than chance,the epitomy of insignificance .but if the world is geocentric and the entire universe literally revolves around the earth than there can be made no claim for human life to be insignificant.humans would not be an accident but the absolute supreme(in this dimension)...try telling a supreme being to work 24/7 for paper and a ass whooping ^^.
further if the world is heliocentric than there can be aliens,abductions,secret technologies,space colonies etc but if the world is geocentric than all the supernatural pretty much comes down to demons,angels,spirits and elementals.people would believe in god and heaven(in the shape of their choosing) and would think twice about killing and deceiving each other.
a heliocentric worldview can not accept a flat earth because it would mean the other planets had to be flat as well, all the while circling around the sun..which goes against the laws of physics we are taught.

actually if you dive deep into the subject you will,imo, come across more evidence and more sound logic for a flat earth than a round one and I am not a believer in any way but there are things which can´t be explained...like the curviture of the earth and why it is none existent or really sick shit which is just not known mainstream...like for instance dozens of videos showing more than one sun in the sky , eve some showing the moon as well for idiots who want to claim it is the moon reflecting in broad daylight and brighter than the "original" sun.this vid is jst one of them

[link broken]

fun fact, many believe this planet has 4 suns as shown in starwars and also many believe that the elite is hiding land on this planet...that the antartic ice belt is not the end but a secret passage as documented in dozens of credible accounts,admiral bird or byrd just to name one(who also happens to be the most outstanding soldier of americas modern times,youngest admiral of all times and said to be indiana jones on steroids^^)...and which land are they supposedly hiding..ever heard the terms shambala or agartha?

fun fact nr 2. this land and truth was also known by J.R. Tolkien the author of lord of the rings.lord of the rings is believed to be more truth than fiction
and middle earth as mordoor are believed to be what is today called germany.sounds crazy but tolkien gave hints so obvious that everyone who looks just a little closer will find the truth and this is not (just) my opinion...like middle earth meaning literally the middle of the earth as in secret lands inside of the earth and mordoor literally means rom(reversed) door or the door/gate to rome which is the german alps.

I don´t know if the earth is flat or not but I do know that on this planet their are wonders and miracles beyond our believe

 

[Awani]

All you wrote are interesting things to consider. From a Sci-Fi perspective. But any wonders and alternative realities occur IMO on an inter-dimensional level.

As for the curvature which I heard and read a lot about let me just say that this is simply wrong. Size matters.

 

[JinRaTensei]

As for the curvature which I heard and read a lot about let me just say that this is simply wrong. Size matters.

don´t want to argue with you we have different opinions relating to this,I just simply wonder how you can be absolute on this subject or anything because being absolute as in "this is simply wrong" is not something I would expect from a person as intelligent as you are,which is why I was talking about having a bias before...

please show me what you read or heard and how size relates to this(as in you can not transfer conclusions from a miniature earth model to the whole globus) because to me this makes no sense.its the simplest math,imo.

look up the curvature of the earth anywhere and you will find something along the lines of 8 inches per mile,everything else would be against our current natural laws (if the earth is not flat or much much much bigger than it is supposed to be)

this simply means that in 10 miles distance each object should be 80 inches below the horizon which is about 2 meters which would already mean that a person could not be able to see an object in that distance if the object and observer are on the same height....how come there are hundreds of videos with distances of over 100 miles where you can still see buildings,ships etc on the other side?also videos done on the ocean(therefor absolute flat line between observer and object) this should be impossible.

if I am wrong or biased I would really like to know but your answer makes no sense for me so I would appreciate if you care to elaborate a bit more....

also ps: why use derogative terms like calling it sci-fi when this of all places is a alchemy forum and thereby everything relating to spiritual alchemy is not more or less sci-fi than this topic.it simply means you(and I) have not experienced it ourselves but thousands of others have

 

[Awani]

don´t want to argue...

I am not arguing. And you are right. Nothing is absolute.

However the reason it looks flat is because of the size. Anyone who has been on the ocean and seen something tall in the distance can easily spot the curve as the bottom part of the object is below the horizon. I read somewhere that if the Earth was sized down to a normal house Mount Everest would rise only a few centimeters of the floor. So of course it appears flat.

Flat Earth is just as likely to be correct as my new theory called Triangel Earth.

[video link broken]

This is a fun site: Earth Curvature Calculator

why use derogative terms like calling it sci-fi

I think you projected your own view on the term Sci-Fi, which I personally hold in high regard.

However (again) everything you wrote was fun and interesting and would be good information for a Sci-Fi book/story. But I wouldn't use it for anything else.

I don't have a problem one day going into space and discover I was wrong. But I can be wrong about Santa Clause at the North Pole as well.

further if the world is heliocentric than there can be aliens,abductions,secret technologies,space colonies etc but if the world is geocentric than all the supernatural pretty much comes down to demons,angels,spirits and elementals.people would believe in god and heaven(in the shape of their choosing) and would think twice about killing and deceiving each other.

It has been like that in the past. So there wouldn't be much difference. The real mystery is between the code. Interdimensional or outside of normal reality.

 

[Ghislain]

JinRaTensei In a "flat-earth" theory how would one explain satellites orbiting the globe showing pictures of know geographical areas continuously with no end?

When pictures were taken of Earth from the moon why did it not depict the whole layout of the world in all its glory.

Why does all the mathematics for a rotating globe in relation to all that is around us work.

Why do ships sailing away always disappear over the horizon?

There are many more questions like this, but as it is not something I have put my mind to perhaps mine are a bit weak.

How thick is this flat earth?

What is on each side of this flat earth?

What happens when I come to an edge of this flat earth?

The list goes on...

Ghislain

 

[JinRaTensei]

the code seems to be the forum hot theme in the moment ^^,seems very interesting and abstract.
I am not saying the earth is flat just that it is not how we are told..triangular like you mention for that matter has equal validity for myself at this point.

when I want to get a basic grip on things I break them down to its simplest postulate.for instance 1+1=5 is not possible according to our current beliefs and dogmas about math.also seeing something 50 or 100 miles away which should be about 1km below the horizon is also not possible according to our current beliefs and dogmas.taken as a given that observer and object are on the same altitude like in water(which seeks equilibrium and is always flat) there can only be 2 reasons for this postulate to occur.1) the earth is flat no matter if rectangular,triangular or a giant dildo in shape or 2) the earth is a ball with a diameter over 10 times larger than science beliefs it to be.
I don´t know if the bottom part of objects on the ocean is below the horizon as you mention but it does not matter in making the before mentioned postulate impossible according to science.that is all I know and it is enough to know our globe model is wrong but not enough to know what it truly is.

as with the video I posted about multiple suns posted in the sky I personally do not label it as sci-fi but as observation.calling it sci-fi is judging it no matter how positive one is toward sci-fi,imo.the question,for me, is merely if all the videos,pictures and different sources across the world from all walks of life are all expert photoshop wizards who have conspired to hoax the public for whatever reason or if what I see and everyone else who wishes to look at it scientifically can see also.that these videos show something which is impossible according to the current worldview

 

[Awani]

It's hard not to say Sci-Fi when you included both these things in your original post:

many believe this planet has 4 suns as shown in starwars and also many believe

this land and truth was also known by J.R. Tolkien the author of lord of the rings

One guy said that water, which he inspected in a bowl should act the same as water in the ocean. And in his bowl the water is flat. True science at work.

Just for fun I googled Secret Alien Base in the Himalayas. I just made it up. I have never heard of such a thing. Apparently there is one!!! :-0 The human imagination is much larger - and greater - than what actually occurs in "reality".

The Mystery and the Divine and the Magic doesn't need any conspiracy scheme.

Code = just another way of talking about the "DNA" of this Virtual Reality we call "Life on Earth".

 

[Awani]

Why does all the mathematics for a rotating globe in relation to all that is around us work.

One proof the Flat Earth folks have is: if the Earth is spinning why don't we feel it moving.

My question: why doesn't an ant know that I am wearing Hugo Boss perfume when I am standing next to it?

 

[Ghislain]

There are many phenomena that can explain seeing vessels at greater distances than one would expect due to the horizon effect.

have a look HERE [link broken]

The two sun thing can be scientifically explained too due to refraction...why were these events not reported by the many observatories around the world?

When we see a massive sunset on the horizon are we to believe the sun just happened to come much closer for that moment in time?

Ghislain

 

[Ghislain]

One proof the Flat Earth folks have is: if the Earth is spinning why don't we feel it moving.

Probably due to the fact that when you throw a ball in the air while travelling 60mph in a car it doesn't fly backwards.

If you threw the ball out of the window it would appear to fly backward in relation to you, but to someone in the street it would be travelling at great speed in the same direction as you.

At the equator people are travelling at about 1000mph in relation to the Earths axis. They would certainly know the world had been spinning if you suddenly stopped it



In the pic above I'm at about 12,000ft and you can see the curvature even from there.

Ghislain

 

[JinRaTensei]

Ghislain as I mentioned before I am neither a flat earth beliefer nor a globe earth one.All I say is that there are things which violate the rules of the world and its science we all have been taught.Since I do not know more than that I neither can proof to you that the earth is flat nor that it is a globe ^^.

But I can try to share the observations I have gained regarding your questions

JinRaTensei In a "flat-earth" theory how would one explain satellites orbiting the globe showing pictures of know geographical areas continuously with no end?

no satellites and photoshoped pictures.all communication said to be done via satelitte is supposedly transmitted through highly advanced transmitter towers on land developed from prototypes of nikola tesla.the technology has been around for about 100 years

When pictures were taken of Earth from the moon why did it not depict the whole layout of the world in all its glory.

How could it? the earth is said to be a globe and the moon is said to be almost 400K km so how could a picture from the moon show the entire world no matter if flat,round or whatever?due to the angle of the shot every object would seem 2 dimensional and flat.

But I dare you! if we truly have been to the moon/space dozens of times as have the russians than find me a single real not computer made photo from earth in all the history and science books,all videos there is not a single picture of earth which is not a photoshoped fake not a single one.if you look closely you can even see how 70% of all pictures of earth from space have one and the same cloud structure copied and pasted 7 times in each single image due to laziness.

if all it took was a astronaut to take a selfie with his handy than how come we don´t have a single real picture

Why does all the mathematics for a rotating globe in relation to all that is around us work.

does it? or does every math,science,chemistry has a point where they have to guess or more formally called they have to use constants,variables and assumptions.black matter,pi,and all the other constants which have to be what they are so that our modern science can function don´t people find it funny how science can have these things? or how people can just accept 97% of the universe being unknown black matter and pretending with it being labeled black matter it is all the same and can easily be used for mathematics in quantumphysics......if you don´t know what the fuck it is than how can you calculate and call it something other than guessing and fantasy.
the moon for instace is not 400k km away because the first rocket measured the distance but because it has to be 400k km away to fit current science.

btw talking about rockets...how does a object move in vacuum like space is supposed to be when the minimum requirement for any kind of movement is the ability to have some matter to reject from like air...how does a gasoline fueled rocket do this magic trick which is impossible to the laws of our beloved science.

Why do ships sailing away always disappear over the horizon?

There are many more questions like this, but as it is not something I have put my mind to perhaps mine are a bit weak.

How thick is this flat earth?

What is on each side of this flat earth?

What happens when I come to an edge of this flat earth?

I do not know and the speculations regarding the edge is even a bit to wild for my taste but it is believed like in almost every religion also mentioned that at the outer most edge of the world one would find a giant dome or fishbowl encircling us from the heavenly waters...which is believed what space truly is,liquid...

but these are mere thoughts nothing one can check and observe and verify or falsify like the things I mentioned before

btw: awesome picture I am jealous because of never having sky dived ,each time I checked in germany one needs a special license to dive alone or have a trainer shove his dick at you in a tandem jump constantly which makes it sky falling and not sky jumping ^^

as of the curvature what kind of a lense does your camera have a rectangular or a oval one? I would guess the later if not I guess the curvature has been proven although I still would not belief that the two suns thing and the seeing objects in the distance can merely be put off so easily and take further examination,imo.

 

[zoas23]

The two sun thing can be scientifically explained too due to refraction...why were these events not reported by the many observatories around the world?

It's called Sun Dogs... and it's not new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dogs (the most usual phenomenom would be to spot 3 suns instead of 1.... but 2 can happen too).

I don't really agree with JinRa here and I'm quite close to the position of Dev, but I love how JinRa dared to defend an idea that for almost anyone is absurd... because such thing made me connect OTHER ideas.

For some reason the idea of a "hidden sun" and a "hidden part of the Earth" made me think of the very early Pythagoreans and their model for the Solar system with a hidden "Anti-Earth" (or "Counter-Earth") and the universe spinning around an Axis of a Central Fire (which is not the visible sun, though the visible Sun reflects the light of this fire)...

And then I remembered the thread of True Puffer [the BEST name anyone had in this forum... it's one of those names that makes anyone think: "I wish I could have thought about it before!!!" ... even if he decided to switch to T.I., which is nice, but not as amazing as T.P.).... The thread of Alchemy in Magical Grimoires.... and I thought of this "Central Fire" and how it was quite *forgotten* by the following neo-pythagorean lines that existed after the early pythagorianism.

And I remembered that the one who brought back the idea of the Axis of Central Fire is Pasqually in his Treatise of the Reintegration of Beings (and then Saint-Martin in many books, always following the ideas of Pasqually)....

And whilst I don't think the early pythagorean model of the universe makes much sense, I LOVE the idea of the "central fire"... and I thought that it could be of interest to True Initiate (either reading the few fragments of Philolaus or reading Pasqually or Saint-Martin).

 

[JinRaTensei]

zoas23

It's called Sun Dogs... and it's not new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dogs (the most usual phenomenom would be to spot 3 suns instead of 1.... but 2 can happen too).

I don't really agree with JinRa here and I'm quite close to the position of Dev, but I love how JinRa dared to defend an idea that for almost anyone is absurd... because such thing made me connect OTHER ideas.

thank you for that piece of information very interesting!although it also makes me a little sad...how mysterious would a world with 4 suns be ^^.have to look deeper into this.and although the existence of sun dogs does not automatically disproof the multiple sun theory it is far more likely and logic...curious name to call it sun dog, helios canis or so o0.
also thank you for not considering me to be an complete idiot for holding every theory as possible as the next one as long as not falsified!

For some reason the idea of a "hidden sun" and a "hidden part of the Earth" made me think of the very early Pythagoreans and their model for the Solar system with a hidden "Anti-Earth" (or "Counter-Earth") and the universe spinning around an Axis of a Central Fire (which is not the visible sun, though the visible Sun reflects the light of this fire)...

hearing things like this subconsciously always have to think of hitlers or rather himmlers SS.many don´t know that the SS stands for Schwarze Sonne or black sun, which is believed to be some esoteric agenda regarding an inner earth sun giving of electricity not warmth as the normal sun is supposed to...it is said that this black su is the heat/light/power source for the inner earth inhabitants of shambala(positive good) and agartha(negative evil).people like nikolas röhrig and his himmalaya expeditions tie into this.
no idea if the nazis used pythagoras for their thesis but i find them strangely similar

the idea of the Axis of Central Fire

microcosm = macrocosm if there truly would be a axis of central/inner fire in the universe it would not be to far fetched to assume that there would also be a inner axis of fire inside planets

 

[Awani]

thank you for not considering me to be an complete idiot for holding every theory as possible

Neither do I. And I agree that every theory is possible. The main purpose of me creating this thread in the first place was because I have been debating this topic on other forums, on facebook and elsewhere for a while now. I wanted to debate it on "home turf" so to speak.