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Deathlessness
- Thread starter Kibric
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There are no classes no groups or audience's
one on one teaching/training is private , Siddhas are strict on this
Siddhas i met in Tamil Nadu looked roughly 30
but were 60-100+ years old
Depending on how much you practise eye yoga/penance will determine how youthful you remain
lots of practise and the Siddha/person will stay looking 25-30 years of age even if they are 60-100+
The culmination of practising eye yoga is the jeevasamadhi state (natural suspended animation) in which the body stops decaying and ageing all together
or decays/ages very slowly over a long time, the bones become supple the skin becomes smooth and taught
eyes turn red/bloodshot and the body and sweat smells sweet
the link below has some lifespans of famous Siddhas and their yugas
[link broken]
Who is philanthropist Vallalar - English Book
Sanathana Dharma - English Book
Guru of the World Vallalar - English Book
Spiritual education for deathlessness - English Book
The below Pdf has a list of books on Page 8
use the contact information within to request more books, they would be happy to help
many of the books are in the process of being translated into english
VallalarSpace - Thiru Arutprakasa Vallalar- English - Jeeva Karunya Part-1
Thiru Arutprakasa Vallalar- English - Those who got human birth in this world should understand and obtain the benefit for the soul which is attainable through this birth, while there is still time.To understand what is meant by the benefit for the soul: One should understand truly that the...
www.vallalarspace.org
You can all also practise Trāṭaka, which is a simpler method of eye yoga/penance very easily on your own
without needing Deekshai or training from a Siddha, this is outlined in the link below
Trāṭaka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trāṭaka
but there are many sites that go into further detail
As far as observing someone practising eye yoga/penance
you can try practising Trāṭaka in a mirror, maybe a person on youtube has uploaded a video of themselves practising eye yoga/penance ?
or go to Tamil Nadu, find and talk with a Siddha, receive Deekshai
they would be happy to show you
you can only learn so much observing others without trying it yourself
no matter the meditation method
but that does mean going to meet them in person, having your own 1st hand experience and trying it for yourself
scepticism is understandable and healthy but if you aren't willing to test it
with your own 1st hand experiences it remains a useless tool
The fruits of Eye yoga/penance comes from the continued practising of it
like football or card tricks your skill and progress increases the more you practise
you cant fully learn and understand a technique/method just by reading and observing
This webpage has the locations and directions and a map too many Siddhas in the Jeevasamadhi state
https://soonyata.home.xs4all.nl/jeevasamadhi.htm
you can go visit them, talk with them, get taught by them and see for yourself like i did, there is no official body/organization to go through
its all up to you
If there's anything i would like people to take away from this thread
is that one of the core beliefs of a Siddha is not to take anyone's word for it
to go out and see for yourself, go out and find Siddhas ask them questions
try Eye yoga/Penance/Trāṭaka yourself and start your very own quest
its only your direct 1st hand experience and understanding that matters
I hope I've been as detailed as possible
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Thank you for the list, I will look up those books.
Indeed, Trattaka is one of Shatkarmas, and it is widely used in general practices, which involve Ajna Chakra. Personally I didn't include this practice into my daily routine yet. Also I have quite bad eye sight (I barely see anything without goggles), how will it work out with eye yoga/Penance methods?
Observing was a common figure of Russian speech, by observing I meant "learning/reading"
I might go to Tamil Dani n some nearby future after I sort out some things. It is always better to learn firsthand.
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Trāṭaka is good for your eye's , done slowly
Penance is a form of Trāṭaka, that can only be done after the eyes/pupil/retina have changed after receiving Deekshai
you get a specific sensation that is within and around your eye's, Penance/eye yoga is the focusing your attention on that specific sensation
changes in the eyes/pupil/retina caused by Deekshai change the chemistry of the eyes
" The conscious ones = Have Magnetoreception
capable of abandoning sleep = like birds
need not die...
they can live forever." - Tirumular
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirumular
http://www.edinformatics.com/math_science/magnetism-in-action.html
[link broken]
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roughly Transmission
in Vallalars resurfaced method it is through the eye's
http://www.vallalyaar.com/tiruvadi-deekshai-baptizing-with-fire/
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Thanks for all the info Kibric.
Like I said I have no doubt that people before the kaliyuga were masters of spiritual Sciences, yantra, tantra, mantra, Alchemy etc but such things are very very rare in our age. Yes we are more technically advanced but at the same time less spiritually advanced.
The guy in the vids below seems to be a big deal within this movement...would you regard him as one of the deathless, unageing ones? What will they do when this man dies, will they make-up a story about him flying up to the clouds so not to disappoint followers?
I remember one of my teachers telling a story about how when a senior guru died that when they cut open his body his insides had not aged, they were like the organs of a 20 year old he said! I had to laugh to myself, well I guess saying that he got old and was no different from others would be disappointing. But the truth is you age from the inside out not the outside in so if you had the interior of a 20 year old then you would also have the exterior of a 20 year old.
Like I said I have no doubt that people before the kaliyuga were masters of spiritual Sciences, yantra, tantra, mantra, Alchemy etc but such things are very very rare in our age. Yes we are more technically advanced but at the same time less spiritually advanced.
The guy in the vids below seems to be a big deal within this movement...would you regard him as one of the deathless, unageing ones? What will they do when this man dies, will they make-up a story about him flying up to the clouds so not to disappoint followers?
I remember one of my teachers telling a story about how when a senior guru died that when they cut open his body his insides had not aged, they were like the organs of a 20 year old he said! I had to laugh to myself, well I guess saying that he got old and was no different from others would be disappointing. But the truth is you age from the inside out not the outside in so if you had the interior of a 20 year old then you would also have the exterior of a 20 year old.
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Happy to help
They are rare and special when you find them.
I was taught that the Kaliyuga only exists because we are creating it
Destiny is for the man who makes his own path, Fate is for the man who is subject to others Destiny
The busy technological world makes the mind fast and inner monologue annoying , like if we stop thinking we will cease to exist or be unable to function normally
We can see this is not true from Mushin in martial arts
This documentary has some great insights into how Hermits use the natural environment to develop wisdom
Amongst White Clouds
[video link broken]
My two favourite quotes from it
No I wouldn't regard him as deathless.
maybe they will tell stories
To find a rare and special thing from my experience Methods/transmissions etc..it costs no money is not commercial, will not turn an honest you away, there are no secrets
all the Knowledge and understanding is available to you, you set you own level of progress , its given into your hand freely.
The inside of his body not aging indicates he was just starting to achieve the Jeevasamadhi state but did not carry on or complete the process before he passed
If the undisturbed Coffin is found empty this is a sign of The completion of the process
Lots of Taoist graves used to have a history of being found empty or with only the clothes/swords of the deceased in the coffins
Kibric.
Read through your posts.
You mention Jeeva Samadhi.
You are correct that this leads to deathless if I am understanding you correctly.
Jeeva Samadhi is conducting the life force of the body upwards internally into the consciousness is it not?
The eyes and ears being the two main carriers of consciousness.
This is a method very rarely spoken about yet is the supreme path is it not ?
All methods try to achieve this. Some work better than others.
Yet I believe there is an aspect missing.
Being able to do this is the preliminary for deathlessness.
If you cannot do this fervently will success there is not chance for deathlessness.
Doing so in itself leads to clearing the tension from the body, leads to natural celibacy, and increases the inner fire. The inner fire and the process are actually the same. It is this process which makes inner fire.
Yet there is an aspect missing.
It is why death still takes those on the deathless path.
I apologize for being blunt and crude.
Pranayama done correctly agitates the entire nervous system making it shake with intensity.
When the upward course of jeeva into consciousness is strong, one must engage in the most crude act with pranayama.
There is no worry for your celibacy could not be broken even by the most beautiful women.
The lowest rushes upwards with heat into consciousness. The bodies skin turns solid red, the body itself engulfed by inner heat of immense strength. Powerful yet not burning. An in this way, the ritual of rejuvenation is done. This is how the blood is made new.
the jing is turned in chi, which is turned into shen.
You become brand new.
yet this itself does not make one deathless. It is being able to do this ritual over and over, and over and over and over.
This is the cliché legend is it not? That which can only be done when jeeva flows into consciousness with intensity.
This is what both naropa taught as well as sivananda.
The hard part is, the way in which you make jeeva flow upwards. For efficiency does matter.
Efficiency matters for a good reason. The ritual of rejuvenation is in opposition to jeeva Samadhi.
You are rising up that which most fervently wants to escape. So your ability to make jeeva flow into consciousness strongly must be efficient. The quicker you can strengthen jeeva flowing into consciousness the more you can preform the ritual. The ritual must be preformed many a times before ageing halts.
I do believe we are on the same topic here. Correct me if I am wrong.
A note for those who have not known it. Deathlessness is a miracle anyone would seek if experienced.
The closest you have ever been to it, is when you were a small child. When you moved your body out of joy, not out of obligation. When moving the body felt good because it was new. When being alive is bliss because all experience is vivid and great. To age is to rot. You are literally a fire being dying through the very thing that keeps you living. Burning to death slowly. The cold fire of rotting. through fire you die, an through fire you may renew yourself.
The eternal living body is mastery of jeeva.
Correct me if we are not speaking of the same thing. Yet I do believe we are.
Although half of what I am speaking of is considered taboo. Held for and done only by the greatest of masters. For failure reduces you to a beast. As a man may become deathless, an immortal may become a beast and die. The eternal spirit, if it does exist, is the half way point inbetween physical immortality and being a beast. Immortality is when the body becomes saturated with so much spirit it no longer ages. Yet this is done by making spirit corporal in a sense, and combining it with the body. Hence why I mention the red body. The reddening of the flesh during the ritual. When you take on the appearance of the Christian devil, being of a solid red color for a couple hours.
Read through your posts.
You mention Jeeva Samadhi.
You are correct that this leads to deathless if I am understanding you correctly.
Jeeva Samadhi is conducting the life force of the body upwards internally into the consciousness is it not?
The eyes and ears being the two main carriers of consciousness.
This is a method very rarely spoken about yet is the supreme path is it not ?
All methods try to achieve this. Some work better than others.
Yet I believe there is an aspect missing.
Being able to do this is the preliminary for deathlessness.
If you cannot do this fervently will success there is not chance for deathlessness.
Doing so in itself leads to clearing the tension from the body, leads to natural celibacy, and increases the inner fire. The inner fire and the process are actually the same. It is this process which makes inner fire.
Yet there is an aspect missing.
It is why death still takes those on the deathless path.
I apologize for being blunt and crude.
Pranayama done correctly agitates the entire nervous system making it shake with intensity.
When the upward course of jeeva into consciousness is strong, one must engage in the most crude act with pranayama.
There is no worry for your celibacy could not be broken even by the most beautiful women.
The lowest rushes upwards with heat into consciousness. The bodies skin turns solid red, the body itself engulfed by inner heat of immense strength. Powerful yet not burning. An in this way, the ritual of rejuvenation is done. This is how the blood is made new.
the jing is turned in chi, which is turned into shen.
You become brand new.
yet this itself does not make one deathless. It is being able to do this ritual over and over, and over and over and over.
This is the cliché legend is it not? That which can only be done when jeeva flows into consciousness with intensity.
This is what both naropa taught as well as sivananda.
The hard part is, the way in which you make jeeva flow upwards. For efficiency does matter.
Efficiency matters for a good reason. The ritual of rejuvenation is in opposition to jeeva Samadhi.
You are rising up that which most fervently wants to escape. So your ability to make jeeva flow into consciousness strongly must be efficient. The quicker you can strengthen jeeva flowing into consciousness the more you can preform the ritual. The ritual must be preformed many a times before ageing halts.
I do believe we are on the same topic here. Correct me if I am wrong.
A note for those who have not known it. Deathlessness is a miracle anyone would seek if experienced.
The closest you have ever been to it, is when you were a small child. When you moved your body out of joy, not out of obligation. When moving the body felt good because it was new. When being alive is bliss because all experience is vivid and great. To age is to rot. You are literally a fire being dying through the very thing that keeps you living. Burning to death slowly. The cold fire of rotting. through fire you die, an through fire you may renew yourself.
The eternal living body is mastery of jeeva.
Correct me if we are not speaking of the same thing. Yet I do believe we are.
Although half of what I am speaking of is considered taboo. Held for and done only by the greatest of masters. For failure reduces you to a beast. As a man may become deathless, an immortal may become a beast and die. The eternal spirit, if it does exist, is the half way point inbetween physical immortality and being a beast. Immortality is when the body becomes saturated with so much spirit it no longer ages. Yet this is done by making spirit corporal in a sense, and combining it with the body. Hence why I mention the red body. The reddening of the flesh during the ritual. When you take on the appearance of the Christian devil, being of a solid red color for a couple hours.
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A good explanation of Jeevasamadhi
https://soonyata.home.xs4all.nl/jeevasamadhi.htm
We are talking about using the same element/Fire but different methods
Each element has a path to deathlessness. Water, Earth, Air, Fire/Light/Inner Heat
there are various methods for each element which transform the body into an Immortal body
example, methods that use Water, the end stages are the physical body dissolving into a Water and reforming into a Water/Immortal Body
The Tummo method is one of the ways that use Fire/Inner Heat
with The Red Skin being a side effect of the practise
This Tummo method can be continued after the Physical Immortal body has been achieved, until the yogi's body is either transformed into Fire/Immortal body or the body burns up
It is very hard to learn because it is very dangerous without Guidance
Penance is also one of the various methods that use the element Fire/Light but the Pranayama is automatic and the Skin doesn't Redden
The Inner Heat/Fire is Kindled and directed by Jothi(Light/Fire) present in the eyes,
instead of the body burning up or transforming into Fire/Immortal Body which happens at culmination of the Tummo method
the Jeevasamadhi state sets in and the body is slowly Dissolved (converted) and reassembled into Light (Gnana Deham)
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Quite curious, on account of how when someone ingests psuchedelics, the pupils dilate and the third eye is stimulated.
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So while planning my visit to those Deathless peeps, I was reading materials on Vallalyaar site (http://www.vallalyaar.com/) for the past two days and it seems to be very contradictory and somewhat creepy:
1. Deekshai seems to be analogous to Shaktipat but seems very... fakey, basically any person (especially impressionable) can feel "something" when someone other looks into his/her eyes. Meanwhile Deathless Gurus claim to have exclusive rights to grant this Deekshai and, as such, they claim monopoly on Divine Wisdom.
2. Deathless people seem to greatly disregard any Yoga practices and they totally deny Pranayama. They put their teaching highly above all that, with exclusive rights to grant access to Divinity.
3. They barely have any of their own practices except some highly primitive Penance, which requires no effort except focusing at something in your eyes which you can get exclusively from some Guru.
4. They wrote too much on worshiping their Gurus and need to make donations. If Vallalar could make gold out of the air (as some stories say), couldn't they just live... without donations? Just by making gold here and there from time to time?
5. There is little to no evidence from them that any of them actually lived for more than 100 years. Their texts don't show a glimpse of knowledge of someone who lived for over 100 years, and there is little transcendental knowledge in it. Everyone can claim to be 100+ years old, but one needs to act like one too, their texts are full of filler and some old morale like "eat only pure-veg food" and "drop any illegal habits" (I wouldn't be surprised if same-sex relationships are also "illegal lust" in their eyes).
Also they say here http://www.vallalyaar.com/tiruvadi-deekshai-baptizing-with-fire/ in pt.5 in red letters - don't worship demi-gods, but in here http://www.vallalyaar.com/chapter-8-spirutual-science-for-immortaliy/ they literally say - worship those who have seen Lord, especially Gurus.
6. Conveyor of granting Deekshai. Imagine conveyor of Shaktipat - it is just not possible.
---------------------
Looks like some creepy sect if you ask me. Sect which feeds on people's fear of death. I am not bashing those peeps, but their teaching sounds quite disturbing, primitive, anti-living and highly manipulative. I will be glad if I will be proven wrong.
1. Deekshai seems to be analogous to Shaktipat but seems very... fakey, basically any person (especially impressionable) can feel "something" when someone other looks into his/her eyes. Meanwhile Deathless Gurus claim to have exclusive rights to grant this Deekshai and, as such, they claim monopoly on Divine Wisdom.
2. Deathless people seem to greatly disregard any Yoga practices and they totally deny Pranayama. They put their teaching highly above all that, with exclusive rights to grant access to Divinity.
3. They barely have any of their own practices except some highly primitive Penance, which requires no effort except focusing at something in your eyes which you can get exclusively from some Guru.
4. They wrote too much on worshiping their Gurus and need to make donations. If Vallalar could make gold out of the air (as some stories say), couldn't they just live... without donations? Just by making gold here and there from time to time?
5. There is little to no evidence from them that any of them actually lived for more than 100 years. Their texts don't show a glimpse of knowledge of someone who lived for over 100 years, and there is little transcendental knowledge in it. Everyone can claim to be 100+ years old, but one needs to act like one too, their texts are full of filler and some old morale like "eat only pure-veg food" and "drop any illegal habits" (I wouldn't be surprised if same-sex relationships are also "illegal lust" in their eyes).
Also they say here http://www.vallalyaar.com/tiruvadi-deekshai-baptizing-with-fire/ in pt.5 in red letters - don't worship demi-gods, but in here http://www.vallalyaar.com/chapter-8-spirutual-science-for-immortaliy/ they literally say - worship those who have seen Lord, especially Gurus.
6. Conveyor of granting Deekshai. Imagine conveyor of Shaktipat - it is just not possible.
---------------------
Looks like some creepy sect if you ask me. Sect which feeds on people's fear of death. I am not bashing those peeps, but their teaching sounds quite disturbing, primitive, anti-living and highly manipulative. I will be glad if I will be proven wrong.
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I understand websites designed by different devotees can be off putting, but its the 1st hand experience which Siddhas value
Deekshai is a transmission through the eyes that changes your eyes,
real (siddhas) Gurus don't claim exclusive rights or have a monopoly on any wisdom
Sadguru or Guru
have the experience having done the training/practises themselves, just like any skill (carpentry) you receive training from a experienced professional
you wouldn't learn music from someone who isn't a qualified musican
you should note they use the phrase Qualified Sadguru for a reason
Unfortunately you cant expect to fully understand what Deekshai is without doing/experiencing it yourself, or at least talking to others who have received Deekshai
many parts of life require direct experience for them to be fully understood
Where do they deny Pranayama ? In the practise of Penance the Pranayama becomes automatic, I already addressed this
Exclusive rights to access divinity is not the case, the teachings are highly revered but some devotees take it too far
feeling that their path is the only true one
examples of this type of behaviour can be found in pretty much every spiritual practise
Highly Primitive ? using techniques to activate cryptochrome (magnetoreception)
Changing the chemistry in the brain by training their eyes in different conditions
using low level light environment and mirrors to increase the size of the retinas too pick up higher frequencies of light
Very primitive indeed...
In Tamil Nadu there are fires Vallalaar lit that still help feed people today
In Valdur there's a trust that feeds clothes and homes people for free
India is steeped in beliefs involving offerings to various deities , but just because some devotees choose to emphasize this
does not mean its what is directly taught by Vallalaar or other Siddhas
Many of the methods and techniques are only taught face to face as I stated before in a previous post
I even linked a website with actual directions and locations of these Deathless Siddhas
but no one is going to visit them and do the work for you
The few books/texts you have read are short introduction for people who don't speak Tamil
Please read all of Vallalaars works in Tamil (28+books) , have a talk with a qualified Sadguru and then decide it is old morale filler.
That would be a fair approach to both you and the teachings/beliefs.
Pure veg food is a requirement and dropping illegal habits (drugs) but that's really common in a lot of spiritual practises
Those who get Sadguru have a spiritual respect for them
This quote below from the link about worshipping is incorrect
(worship to a Guru is not like worship to God its like paying homage)
but this is not what is directly taught by a Siddha
respect and love for your teacher/guru but not worship (like you do to God)
There are lots in India who use the Guru status to make money and brainwash people
this is not condoned by real Siddhas or they're teachings
feeding on people fears ?
can you please show me examples ?
I will happily give you the details you asked for in a PM
That's your opinion having never received deekshai yourself or talked with someone (in person) who has
Deekshai is a transmission through the eyes that changes your eyes,
real (siddhas) Gurus don't claim exclusive rights or have a monopoly on any wisdom
Sadguru or Guru
have the experience having done the training/practises themselves, just like any skill (carpentry) you receive training from a experienced professional
you wouldn't learn music from someone who isn't a qualified musican
you should note they use the phrase Qualified Sadguru for a reason
Unfortunately you cant expect to fully understand what Deekshai is without doing/experiencing it yourself, or at least talking to others who have received Deekshai
many parts of life require direct experience for them to be fully understood
Completely false, Vallalaars teachings in Tamil deal with different types of Yoga and so do every single Siddha that has ever lived
Where do they deny Pranayama ? In the practise of Penance the Pranayama becomes automatic, I already addressed this
Exclusive rights to access divinity is not the case, the teachings are highly revered but some devotees take it too far
feeling that their path is the only true one
examples of this type of behaviour can be found in pretty much every spiritual practise
Considering Tamil civilization and culture is the oldest in the world nearly all practices originated from South India and Siddhars
Highly Primitive ? using techniques to activate cryptochrome (magnetoreception)
Changing the chemistry in the brain by training their eyes in different conditions
using low level light environment and mirrors to increase the size of the retinas too pick up higher frequencies of light
Very primitive indeed...
They do live with without donations, an option open to donate doesn't mean its a commercial enterprise
In Tamil Nadu there are fires Vallalaar lit that still help feed people today
In Valdur there's a trust that feeds clothes and homes people for free
India is steeped in beliefs involving offerings to various deities , but just because some devotees choose to emphasize this
does not mean its what is directly taught by Vallalaar or other Siddhas
With an armchair exploration of it , you wont find anything substantial without 1st hand experience,
Many of the methods and techniques are only taught face to face as I stated before in a previous post
I even linked a website with actual directions and locations of these Deathless Siddhas
but no one is going to visit them and do the work for you
The few books/texts you have read are short introduction for people who don't speak Tamil
Please read all of Vallalaars works in Tamil (28+books) , have a talk with a qualified Sadguru and then decide it is old morale filler.
That would be a fair approach to both you and the teachings/beliefs.
Pure veg food is a requirement and dropping illegal habits (drugs) but that's really common in a lot of spiritual practises
No same sex is fine
They don't worship Gurus as demi gods please cite where ? , Vallalaar stated many times to worship God not him
Those who get Sadguru have a spiritual respect for them
This quote below from the link about worshipping is incorrect
this devotee has put emphasis on offerings and worship to the Guru
(worship to a Guru is not like worship to God its like paying homage)
but this is not what is directly taught by a Siddha
respect and love for your teacher/guru but not worship (like you do to God)
There are lots in India who use the Guru status to make money and brainwash people
this is not condoned by real Siddhas or they're teachings
Creepy sect ?
feeding on people fears ?
how very creepy
please explain what teachings are primitive anti-living and highly manipulative
can you please show me examples ?
I will happily give you the details you asked for in a PM
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During Shaktipat and similar transmissions, the "receiver" gets the visions of the Glory of This Universe, of The Divine, often it is accompanied by acquiring some Siddhis, etc. If "receiver" isn't totally ready then a lot of troubles start happening in his life - that is why Shaktipat can't be made just toward any human.
Also unlike Deekshai, one can work through teachings of Yoga and Tantra and totally avoid the need of Shaktipat, attaining all this by his own labor.
Are there any similar experiences with Deekshai? Can one attain Deekshai without contacting with any Guru?
Here they bash it:
http://www.vallalyaar.com/chapter-8-spirutual-science-for-immortaliy/
"With a techniques of Yoga like Pranayamam, VaasiYogam it will take lot of births for one to achieve Divinity. Only after extreme Yogas it is possible for one to achieve divine wisdom and after getting divine wisdom only one can get divine pleasure and divine bliss."
Here they totally deny it:
http://www.vallalyaar.com/true-meaning-of-kundalini-yoga/
"Yoga Sastram tells that the Kunadlini is in the end of spinal cord. We donot want that. TiruArutPrakasa Vallalar has clearly told that Pranayam or any other breathing practice will not lead one to to the Supreme Lord. Yoga and Pranayam were not recommeded in this age."
To be honest, this latter quote is totally messy and suspicious.
If to look at various Eastern teachings, a lot of them almost like science, beautiful and multifaceted. Penance, indeed, looks a bit too "simplistic".
While I agree that animal food is a bit too "crude" and it also feeds the "lower parts" of human's soul, it is irreplaceable, though I agree that proper balance is needed. Animal food has a lot of irreplaceable particles like animal protein, B12, etc., and after a year or so of ignoring animal food, bad changes start happening in human's body. Also eating animal meat is basically a requirement for everyone whose work is hard physically, and I must say that there are little jobs in the world which are physically easy.
Here:
http://www.vallalyaar.com/chapter-8-spirutual-science-for-immortaliy/
"Worship any people who have seen him(lord). Fall on the feet of those person who were teaching this education."
...
"“Did i shy to worship my Guru”
“Did i forget to give Kaanikai(offerings) to my Guru”
These were the words conveyed by vallalar in his book “ManuMurai Kanda Vaasakam”. So be humble and learn this education from the guru. Do divine donation."
Understand me right, in no way I am bashing them or want to bash them, but in my land we have lots of people who claim to attain immortality, who claim to be angels and demons in flesh, etc. Each third is some "illuminated guru". I also became a victim of trust to some of them and it costed me a lot in terms of time.
Thus I am approaching all those teachers with great caution. And as some people say: "An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof." So far I saw no proof, but I saw all the same notions which I have seen coming from similar-sounding people in my land. Their site has no texts on transcendental experience, on the nature of the things, nothing. It would be interesting to read more on those things, on the nature of Deekshai, etc., before having to give my last hard-earned money as some required divine offering.
As they write in http://www.vallalyaar.com/chapter5-donation-penance/
"Without donations no one can get divine wisdom."
I am not greedy person. But I work extremely hard for whatever little money I have and so I have a very cautious approach to people who claim to be able to make gold from thin air like Vallalar and his embodiments. Perhaps they help and feed the needy, we also have such "philanthropists" in my land - they sell bread for 100$ each and then give part of the money to the "poor", seemingly strong and healthy people who are just too lazy to do any kind of labor.
I will be glad to find myself in error in this case, I have shown you why I think that those people are just some creepy sect. Just with clean heart tell me, do you yourself believe them? Do you have any actual transcendental experience from Deekshai or just something which can be explained by hypnosis, trance, impressionability or something like that? And I will be glad to read more of their books on the Universe, Nature, etc., what I have read so far has a lot of "water" (I am not sure about the proper English idiom here) and contradicts most of the Eastern teachings.
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Shaktipat is not Deekshai its similar but it not what you are thinking
but many go to a qualified Guru to receive it a lot quicker
its not bashing it
focus on raising the Kundalini is not the Goal
I've studied siddhas techniques, I know the effect they have on the brain and what equipment/conditions they use
the techniques are not Primitive at all
Siddhas have been predominantly scripturless , trusting training and teaching in person
real Siddhas/Gurus will turn you away if you offer them money for their methods and training
"Without donations no one can get divine wisdom."
would be more Honest of you if you cited the whole thing
and without the spirit of charity you will get no Divine Wisdom
the principles and teachings of Siddhas are not creepy at all
Deekshai has a physical effect on the eyes (activation of cryptochrome), and Penance brings a very strong sensation in the eyes
its not hypnosis or a trance it has very specific side effects
again you need to go visit, talk and learn in person
that's what all real Siddhas endorse over any written material
that's really been the underlining point in this entire thread
yes with many years practising Trāṭaka under various conditions
but many go to a qualified Guru to receive it a lot quicker
this is saying you can get divine wisdom through Yoga techniques but it will take many births or extreme practise of them
its not bashing it
Yes the Gnana Deham state (union with the lord) brought on by Penance cannot be achieved by breathing practises alone
focus on raising the Kundalini is not the Goal
check it out Tamil is the oldest civilization
I've studied siddhas techniques, I know the effect they have on the brain and what equipment/conditions they use
the techniques are not Primitive at all
(worship to a Guru is not like worship to God its like paying homage)
yes only in person will you really get taught , there are various devotees with sites to Vallalaar some with more info than others
Siddhas have been predominantly scripturless , trusting training and teaching in person
you don't have to give them any money, you have the option to offer various fruits to them as an offering
real Siddhas/Gurus will turn you away if you offer them money for their methods and training
"Without donations no one can get divine wisdom."
would be more Honest of you if you cited the whole thing
the translation is a bit off, though it is clearly saying giving to others
and without the spirit of charity you will get no Divine Wisdom
you offered 6 points based on an opinion without any 1st hand experience
the principles and teachings of Siddhas are not creepy at all
yes what you experience from Deekshai is a transcendental experience
Deekshai has a physical effect on the eyes (activation of cryptochrome), and Penance brings a very strong sensation in the eyes
its not hypnosis or a trance it has very specific side effects
again you need to go visit, talk and learn in person
that's what all real Siddhas endorse over any written material
that's really been the underlining point in this entire thread
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Perhaps you are right, but there is little actual information about their teaching around (and whatever there is, is quite suspicious).
I want to believe that they are real masters of their kind, but so far they sound suspiciously similar to fake ones (for the reasons I listed and for some others). Hence I also ask you - do you yourself honestly believe them? Or do you have some seeds of doubt? Do they have something actually extraordinary to back-up their claims - some very deep knowledge of this world, of the Divine, etc.? What makes you believe that what they say is true and not just side-effects of stimulation of Ajna? Do you have some fear that 20-30 years later you might realize that all this Deekshai deathless thing is just nonsence and that your body has greatly aged, and that even practicing some Yoga would do more good physically than Penance?
Just visiting them isn't exactly an easy task. I need to feed 3 people outside of me, one of them is totally helpless, so it isn't trivial for me just to drop everything for a couple of weeks to visit some people in distant land. And I became very pragmatical and skeptical over years, because there are tons of fake teachings and charlatans who only know how to fill their purse with your money, or who totally live in some imaginary world where they are like gods but can barely treat any half-serious disease. So for now my option is to learn some Tamil and read the Deathless' books to get better idea on what they are about. Do they have more information about their teaching and practices available to read on Tamil language?
I want to believe that they are real masters of their kind, but so far they sound suspiciously similar to fake ones (for the reasons I listed and for some others). Hence I also ask you - do you yourself honestly believe them? Or do you have some seeds of doubt? Do they have something actually extraordinary to back-up their claims - some very deep knowledge of this world, of the Divine, etc.? What makes you believe that what they say is true and not just side-effects of stimulation of Ajna? Do you have some fear that 20-30 years later you might realize that all this Deekshai deathless thing is just nonsence and that your body has greatly aged, and that even practicing some Yoga would do more good physically than Penance?
Just visiting them isn't exactly an easy task. I need to feed 3 people outside of me, one of them is totally helpless, so it isn't trivial for me just to drop everything for a couple of weeks to visit some people in distant land. And I became very pragmatical and skeptical over years, because there are tons of fake teachings and charlatans who only know how to fill their purse with your money, or who totally live in some imaginary world where they are like gods but can barely treat any half-serious disease. So for now my option is to learn some Tamil and read the Deathless' books to get better idea on what they are about. Do they have more information about their teaching and practices available to read on Tamil language?
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you are incredibly cynical, not everything is a cult
I saw popular Holy men wearing gold watches, so i decided any master who wears a gold watch was not for me
i found there are real masters but they're entirely disinterested in civilization. They don't like money or wear gold watches
they will ask you to eat nuts and berries, bury yourself in dirt and bathe your self in the sun. Go back to a simpler nature
yes I honestly know it, when you experience something and you know it, you've done it, it happened to you
what others believe doesn't matter
a good question. Vallalar's teachings is that the soul is in the middle of your head, and is a light (Jothi)
The light shines out of the Left Eye (Moon) and the Right Eye (Sun), the ajna associated as being the seat of the soul (light)
Penance physically changes the eye's then the body, when you practise it you can measure the changes to your own body
after intense Penance the persons eyes shine, the eyes are bright
Sadai Swamigal
a famous Siddha Thangal Mouna
no, i can measure the effects on my own body and you can see it on others who practise Penance too
you are in no way limited from practising other stuff as well
it is exactly what you need to really find something unbelievable
there are a lot of charlatans who make us bitter but studying Siddhas reveals some special things
a lot of the information you are looking for is in Tamil
it is because of the language barrier and the availability to the western world
that it is hard to get an in-depth knowledge of Vallalar teachings/practises/poems
the below links has the names of books written by Vallalaar in Tamil
a lot of the links are dead, so tracking down the books is a bit difficult but not impossible
[link broken]
http://vallalargroupsmessages.blogspot.co.uk/p/vallalar-books.html
this links contains e-books
[link broken]
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Yes, I probably amyou are incredibly cynical, not everything is a cult
I think that both extremes are wrong - aiming for all riches of this world and totally isolating yourself from this world. When people start dealing with absolute Black and White in this multi-colored world, I am starting to feel very uneasy if not frightened.
I am sincerely interested in the way how you measure those effects. What exactly are the effects, and how they can be seen on others?
Thank you, I will look and read them. I did read some of them already, but... they didn't really make me excited. As in example with colors, when I read various Eastern sacred texts - they are so multi-colored, with many colors not even existing in this world. But what I've read from Deathless books so far is so White, that it feels totally lifeless. I will keep reading them, because I hope I am wrong, but so far books contain a lot of things about "abortions are wrong", "eating animal flesh is wrong", "killing mosquitos is wrong", "doubting sacred teaching is wrong", and many other highly controversial moralities with little actual knowledge and practice. So far it is very off-putting, but I will keep reading and trying to persuade myself that I am wrong and just need to do more research.
The light of the eye and the light if the ear are also known as the vital sustaining life force.
I mean, I can make my eyes shine at will via projecting my life force through them.
The same way I do that also allows me to experience reality with my mind.
Keeping this on does have interesting effect. 2 weeks is probably my max sustained time.
Giving someone shaltipat is difficult.
It takes extreme focus.
I have only done it once, it was an accident.
I peered into someone. They met my gaze and challenged me.
The majority of my being was in my eyes at this point.
The ended up breathing in deep, siezed up, fell directly back into a wall. An instantly started dreaming for about 15 seconds before waking up in a daze. It was simply a result of many suppressed things leaving all at once.
I apologized as it was not my intent. Shaltipat through the eyes is the highest form of transmission. Most is done through touch.
Meat eating. Alcohole. Drugs. None of these matter in the face
Of rejuvenating vitality. At most they will break your discipline. Thus breaking your ability to cultivate. Like an alluring women breaking your celibacy. Yet if a women break your celibacy, you were never on the immortal path to begin with.
Any man who practices correctly, 2 months into practice he will have all desire burnt up. If this isn't true, then what is he doing?
I read through an have no idea the practice you speak of.
Yet through opening my subtle body. I can project light through my easily. It follows my attention. It is Like a spirit. Part of my but separate. At will i can alter my mind like a drug. The more I use it, the stronger it gets.
Right and wrong do not exist at some point. These only exist to those who have not overcome. An overcoming means cultivation of life.
Liberation is a part of immortal path. Liberation is not liberation from the world, it is liberation from yourself. For it is you who experiences.
Fire consumes all, all that remains is the flame. The flame remains untarnished.
I mean, I can make my eyes shine at will via projecting my life force through them.
The same way I do that also allows me to experience reality with my mind.
Keeping this on does have interesting effect. 2 weeks is probably my max sustained time.
Giving someone shaltipat is difficult.
It takes extreme focus.
I have only done it once, it was an accident.
I peered into someone. They met my gaze and challenged me.
The majority of my being was in my eyes at this point.
The ended up breathing in deep, siezed up, fell directly back into a wall. An instantly started dreaming for about 15 seconds before waking up in a daze. It was simply a result of many suppressed things leaving all at once.
I apologized as it was not my intent. Shaltipat through the eyes is the highest form of transmission. Most is done through touch.
Meat eating. Alcohole. Drugs. None of these matter in the face
Of rejuvenating vitality. At most they will break your discipline. Thus breaking your ability to cultivate. Like an alluring women breaking your celibacy. Yet if a women break your celibacy, you were never on the immortal path to begin with.
Any man who practices correctly, 2 months into practice he will have all desire burnt up. If this isn't true, then what is he doing?
I read through an have no idea the practice you speak of.
Yet through opening my subtle body. I can project light through my easily. It follows my attention. It is Like a spirit. Part of my but separate. At will i can alter my mind like a drug. The more I use it, the stronger it gets.
Right and wrong do not exist at some point. These only exist to those who have not overcome. An overcoming means cultivation of life.
Liberation is a part of immortal path. Liberation is not liberation from the world, it is liberation from yourself. For it is you who experiences.
Fire consumes all, all that remains is the flame. The flame remains untarnished.
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you can measure them lots of ways
skin elasticity, blood, urine, muscle development, reaction times etc
even toenail growth
the Penance meditation is preparing your body for the Jeevasamadhi state
so depending on how much you do it determines the effects it has on you
there are numerous effects, in each of the stages
so i will just list some main ones
example
if you practise Penance for 4 hours a day
your eyes become bright
your skin clearer, you breathe slower and less
reactions speed increases, you learn faster. Languages sports etc
(this is due to Penance changing the way your brain processes information)
if you practise Penance for 10 hours a day
your eyes become red, you become lean and strong
your body becomes flexible, you learn very fast
you require less and less food, you age slower
20 hours a day
and your body requires very little food or water
you are lean and very strong, you will remain youthful
if you are old you will start to slowly grow young
25+hours a day
and your body will start to enter the Jeevasamadhi state
which has a whole host of other effects on the body
bones become supple
sweet odour from the body
Siddha teachings come in a variety with their own devotees , a lot like many spiritual paths
there are some Siddhas who eat meat and worship (pay homage)to the Vagina
a Siddha it is very much up to you
there is a spectrum of ground work before you
Vallalaar not eating animal flesh is part of that spectrum
as is Bhogars tantric sex rituals
i would encourage you to reach out to Siddhas yourself however you can
the horses mouth so to speak because that is a core belief in Siddha teachings
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I can see how this one in particular can extend one's lifespan
Is there also a cock-worshiping alternative?
Are women also allowed to practice? If yes, do they worship the vagina as well?
But on a more "serious" note, I think that the whole "vagina" thing is more allegorical than literal. Sounds (to me) like the Eastern equivalent of the Black Sun.
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some people like to build an elaborate tomb with 7 sides and sit in Jeevasamadhi for 120 years
until the sons of his friends find them
to each his own..
if you like that sort of thing you might be able to find something
yes and have been known to be smarter than they're husbands who were also Siddhars
yes if they want too, Godess Valli is often used in different practises
eastern equivalent to Neo Nazi Vril ?
[link broken]
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It is still not clear to me how one can practice 25+ hours a day, unless their days contain/are divided into more than the usual standard of 24 hours.
Also, the Black Sun doesn't care about political parties/movements and can not defined by such. However, we can see its presence in many cultures, mythologies and belief systems. I've touched upon it elsewhere on this forum, on several occasions (like HERE, for example). Warmheart has also addressed the concept:
Also, the Black Sun doesn't care about political parties/movements and can not defined by such. However, we can see its presence in many cultures, mythologies and belief systems. I've touched upon it elsewhere on this forum, on several occasions (like HERE, for example). Warmheart has also addressed the concept:
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if you get good at it, you can do it all day while you can do other things
i know very little about it, i haven't found it anywhere in Tamil culture maybe in a Kolam ?
its great to know more about it
is this the dead star that was printed in a textbook back in the 70s ?
can a heliocentric model fit with this arrangement of two suns ?
a physical reflection would have to be closer to the earth ?