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Dangers & Other Realms

Pilgrim

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Reading various texts there is the suggestion that this art brings us into contact with other realms and possibly other entities. Some like Garstin's "Secret Fire" say for example:

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and

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Others here have likewise said that you can not succeed in this art without a master.

Andro in the "One Matter One Vessel" thread has said:

Andro said:
It does, indeed, originate in the Aether, it's parented into our realm by the Sun and the Moon, it's carried and further concentrated by the atmosphere (air) and even further concentrated in our Vessel by Art

Thus talking about this other realm, the Aether or what lies beyond it and so on.


What then is the budding alchemist really getting into? Let's put aside all the quaint fannying about with substances and flasks and different matters which is akin to hobbyist investigative tinkering. What is really down the road of Alchemy?

If we follow Nature and play with this matter from another realm, is this inevitably going to expose us to that realm and/or to any entities that abide within it? Is this unavoidably high level cult stuff, messing with dangerous occult matters, demons etc, or is this just simply matters of Nature and thus nothing to worry about ?

From what I have read it seems to me that a significant part of the Great Work is something that must come from within ourselves. Something to do with our Will and ability to control and focus it which is presumably why various practices are done by some (prana, kundalini, deep breathing etc)

Is anyone willing to speak truthfully and plainly on this?

Even simpler, if one does not have a master, does not know of one, is there any point at all starting on this journey?
 

ghetto alchemist

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What then is the budding alchemist really getting into? Let's put aside all the quaint fannying about with substances and flasks and different matters which is akin to hobbyist investigative tinkering. What is really down the road of Alchemy?

If we follow Nature and play with this matter from another realm, is this inevitably going to expose us to that realm and/or to any entities that abide within it?
It seems like you're talking about strange radiation, although I'd bet you dollars for donuts that you have no idea what that is.
Regardless, it's real and it's dangerous.

It's widely believed in the cold fusion/lenr community that several people have already died from unknowing exposure to it.
There's also examples of ailments such as facial swelling/cataracts/leukemia etc in the free energy community.
IMO it's the same thing.

You don't need to worry though, IMO the danger only comes from working with bona fide exotic substances containing high levels of HIM.
I can't recall a single researcher on this forum ever reporting getting sick from possible radiation exposure in the lab.
So either we all already instinctively know how to avoid the wrath of strange radiation, or more likely the kind of experiments we do simply don't create much of it.

Here's a youtube video for anyone wanting to delve in deeper.
It's in Russian so you'll probably need to enable auto-translate. [How amazing is the technology of the 21st century!]
 

Pilgrim

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It seems like you're talking about strange radiation, although I'd bet you dollars for donuts that you have no idea what that is.
Regardless, it's real and it's dangerous.

Nope not what I am talking about GA.

I'm asking whether the work or the end product or any created substance along the journey has the effect of connecting a person to another realm with other beings. And indeed whether such a connection is a necessary part of the work. If it is essential to have a master to guide you through the work (even if only latter stages) then why is that so? What is it exactly that a master is protecting the adept from? I seriously don't think it's to protect them from blowing themselves up for example.
 

Jimmy Rig

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I think that it is necessary for the alchemist to fully integrate the spirit to become whole or.. "holy" so in my opinion, yes it is vital to make this connection in order to progress in the work.

If one does not have the capacity (Noun: "Ability" Someone's ability to do a particular thing) or (Noun: "Amount" the total amount that can be contained or produced) to work with and hold the spirit; problems can occur. I think this is why we are to increase our vibrations slowly as our vessels are refined for the purpose.

Other definitions for my response:
Spirit:
a )"an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms"
b ) "a supernatural being or essence: such as the HOLY SPIRIT"

Vessel:
a )container (such as a cask, bottle, kettle, cup, or bowl) for holding something
b )a person into whom some quality (such as grace) is infused

John 3:21-22 NKJV
"21When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized;(Jimmy's note; King ready for his bath) and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. 22And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

The answer to your question is in these verses IMO

"Luke 5:37-39 NKJV And no one puts new wine(Jimmy's Note: Spirit) into old wineskins(Jimmy's Note: Vessel); or else the new wine(Spirit) will burst the wineskins(Vessels) and be spilled(come to ruin), and the wineskins will be ruined.(Jimmy's Note: Not having the proper capacity to hold the spirit becomes overloaded.) But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are preserved. And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, 'The old is better.

We are in the proccess of transitioning from the natural man to the divine man; or lead to gold.
We are drunk on the world, the old wine. If we change it out too quickly the results can be disastrous as there would be a disharmony between our parts.

I cannot answer your question regarding the need of a master or teacher. I do believe that we are attempting to work with spiritual powers when we are on the path and hopefully we are working with the holy spirit and the divine however I am sure one can attract "other" spirits, powers etc of a darker nature if they are not in their proper heart space or on a good spiritual foundation or simply because ones intent is of a darker nature and they allign/attract these forces.

24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

If you have a real strong connection with God, the divine, the source of all existence outside of time and space what do you really have to worry about from astral entities etc? I doubt you would be too interested in speaking to them if your divine connection is real. Those who seek wealth, fortune, notoriety instead of making the inner like the outer are likely to have run ins with some of these entities.
Make sure you are on good footing with god, and know who you really are, then make haste slowly to reconcile yourself to God.

I have had spiritual attacks; in dreams mostly. Once I realized that God is always with me, and Jesus is our example on how to reconcile with him, I have nothing to fear from the dark as a candle does not fear a dark room, bringing light to his surroundings never the less the candle is not the fire but honors the light it gives.

Perhaps this is not the answer you were looking for but it is the best I can give and is of course only my opinion. Perhaps someone else here has a more refined understanding of your inquiry. BTW I think its a really good question.

 

Pilgrim

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Thanks for these thoughts, there is much to ponder.

I am not really any longer a follower of any specific religion so I don't really align to your notions of God or the way you choose (or have accepted from others) to frame the universal source of all things. I see the alchemical wisdom in the Bible and most other sacred tomes of mainstream religions and associated systems so Bible quotes are just fine with me.

I have had spiritual attacks; in dreams mostly.

Can you elucidate more on these attacks? In what way were you affected? How did you determine that it was more than just a dream?
 

Jimmy Rig

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No worries pilgrim it's just the book that I am most familiar with.

Well I used to have nightmares as a child and teenager. I have had waking experiences as a young adult where I would "wake up" in bed, seemingly paralysed while entities would try to "pull" me out the window. I have had dreams where I was locked or placed within underground labyrinths or abandoned mines where the name of the game was defending against or running from demonic creatures. Have experienced riding in a chariot as an observer with Christ lying sprawled out bloody as we blasted through the troubled skies of a counter world I did not recognize. There are so many disturbing dreams I have had. An important distinction was made for me a few years ago when I realised that when I stopped fearing and personified god and Christ or called upon his name specifically that my role within any disturbing dream scenario switched to me being on the offensive. In other words the connection with God and Jesus Christ completely flipped the switch and I will innately utilize this connection in a "nightmare" even if I was not lucid in the dream and it is now such that I know regardless of what is in my dream perception I am covered and not only that but by the grace of God, more powerful than any of the dark forms which assail my dream self. I also know the same applies in this very life which some refer to as a dream.

How have I been affected? Previously it was a fear of sleep, being alone and the dark. Now? No effects excepting a sense of gratitude and peace knowing who I am. There is nothing to fear anymore which was my point in bringing it up. I have lost any fear of the things which go bump in the night, for darkness can not withstand the light.

There are more examples but I know we have all had unsettling experiences.
 

Pilgrim

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Thanks for your candidness.

The mind is a complex entity and I think assimilates much that we have experienced in the past, much that we have seen and heard with eyes and ears, esp TV and radio and much that we have been psychologically programmed with from childhood which for me personally was many years of religious indoctrination. Understanding that we've been programmed and having the humility to admit it is the first step towards being able to de-programme oneself and I think that's one of the hardest things a person can do in their lifetime. Many regrettably never actually manage it and remain indoctrinated and/or plugged into the "Matrix" their entire time here on Earth.

It's a long journey and we're all at different stages of it imho. Good luck on yours.
 

Jimmy Rig

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Check out the thread "Are you any closer?" I put what I am talking about here into the context of a "matrix" in post #236 however we were using the term "world bubble" rather than matrix. This thread in combination with the liberation the thread.. goes into what you are discussing. The thing is the way I interpret the Bible you will never recieved in a church or on television.. eyes to see and ears to hear. Only the man who has descended from heaven (outside the time matrix) can ascend to heaven. The rest, in your terms are NPCS/sleepers or, "of the earth" or "born of the flesh" in biblical terms.
 

Jimmy Rig

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Thanks for your candidness.

The mind is a complex entity and I think assimilates much that we have experienced in the past, much that we have seen and heard with eyes and ears, esp TV and radio and much that we have been psychologically programmed with from childhood which for me personally was many years of religious indoctrination. Understanding that we've been programmed and having the humility to admit it is the first step towards being able to de-programme oneself and I think that's one of the hardest things a person can do in their lifetime. Many regrettably never actually manage it and remain indoctrinated and/or plugged into the "Matrix" their entire time here on Earth.

It's a long journey and we're all at different stages of it imho. Good luck on yours.
I agree with you here. Sometimes though we can throw the baby out with the bathwater IMO.
Not everything in this world is meant to deceive; even amongst the rough diamonds can be found.
There must be an aspect to us that can even perceive the notion of a soul trap or matrix; why can we see the prison walls if we do not have some notion of what is beyond (or some remembrance of whence we came) Why can bible verses be interpreted in such a way as to point to this unseen reality behind our physical senses?

Anyways I enjoyed your thread here. Hopefully some others will chime in,
Best of luck on your journey as well :)
 

Aureus

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If we follow Nature and play with this matter from another realm, is this inevitably going to expose us to that realm and/or to any entities that abide within it? Is this unavoidably high level cult stuff, messing with dangerous occult matters, demons etc, or is this just simply matters of Nature and thus nothing to worry about ?

To help answer your question, allow me to give you some insight into Aleister Crowley. Was he interested in dark processes and happened to be an alchemist, or was he an alchemist that did what was necessary? Perhaps the answer to your question is the same.

I can't speak of the Alchemical side because I'm still a babe, but I've studied the "standard" occult side and the life of Aleister Crowley quite extensively out of curiosity. I will give you an account from that view.

Important Note: just because I know of and share such things doesn't mean I agree with them.

One must first know that it is almost always disastrous to mettle with demons/entities directly. To properly summon a demon one must find and evoke their personal (some say guardian) angel who will then help you evoke a lesser demon. Your personal angel may be enough to simply help you with a minor task or to summon a lesser demon who can help with minor things, but if a serious request is needed you will need a greater demon. In that case you must convince your personal angel to help you evoke a more powerful named angel...who will then help you evoke and speak to a greater demon to do your bidding.

This process can take 1-2 years and requires detailed rituals that must be performed rightly or you will lose control. After whatever the goal for summoning the demon/entity is complete (sometimes months or years later) the processed must be "reversed" so to speak to properly "thank" and free the demon/entity back to its own business.

This is what Aleister Crowley was up to in the house that Jimmy Page later bought for the same reason. Unfortunately Crowley was distracted by the health of his father some months into the ritual and did not finish, so the place remains cursed so they say.

Some say this is also the reason Aleister went to Area 51 on the behest of Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard, but the intention there was to never break the ritual so that constant communication could benefit the powers that be from then on. Sure would explain some weird happenings around there, if true.

It seems common sense that destruction and death await those who try to control any entity who considers you nothing more than a dog to be used for their pleasure. Without the help of a friendly and powerful angel/entity, you are not going to find anything good. And even with the help of an angel there will still be a price to pay to the demon, and if asking a large favor it will require a terrible price and a shedding of blood.

Given Aleister Crowley's ties to Alchemy and the GOLDEN DAWN (meaning the GW!), then one can imagine that this path is at least a choice an alchemist can choose. So, now that you know some back story, I ask again. Was Aleister Crowley interested in dark processes and happened to be an alchemist, or was he an alchemist that did what was necessary?

My opinion is it was his own choice. Consider how much attention Aleister put into sex magic, that's surely not necessary for the Art (that I am aware of). So perhaps he was a man of many dark interests and it is not a requirement. That's my belief.

Have you seen signs of any of this angel/demon summoning in the Art? It's quite extensive and would be obvious. I haven't, not in the pure Art. That doesn't mean these entities can't reach out, can't come close, or can't cause chaos. But they can do that with their own will to anyone, so an alchemist isn't special in that regard.

But, and with a final warning, I could see how dabbling so close to the Aether and Occult makes us a prime target. Demons don't like to waste their time any more than we do, so they usually seek easy targets (exception would be hard targets that have a big payoff, like a pastor). Consider the amount of greedy individuals who are attracted to alchemy, or how we all open our minds far deeper than most, or how we all dabble in things we do not fully understand... we are indeed fresh bait on a hook. But again, that doesn't mean we are welcoming them in any more than anyone else, we're just closer to the flame than most.

I suggest making yourself a hard target by putting aside any "sinful" intentions or feelings you might have (if any!) and putting on the Armor of God and remembering that demons in the mirror are always closer than they appear.
 
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Lakshmana

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"The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage is an old grimoire that contains an ancient ritual to summon one’s Holy Guardian Angel and gain control over the 12 Kings and Dukes of Hell. This is the “Abramelin Operation”, and the powers to be gained include shapeshifting, prophesy, riches, and even mind-control. Infamously known for its grueling, unforgiving, and dangerous requirements, few have attempted it. In 1901, the occultist Aleister Crowley failed to complete the Abramelin Operation, and legends tell that he accidentally left open a portal to Hell."
 

Aureus

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"The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage is an old grimoire that contains an ancient ritual to summon one’s Holy Guardian Angel and gain control over the 12 Kings and Dukes of Hell. This is the “Abramelin Operation”, and the powers to be gained include shapeshifting, prophesy, riches, and even mind-control. Infamously known for its grueling, unforgiving, and dangerous requirements, few have attempted it. In 1901, the occultist Aleister Crowley failed to complete the Abramelin Operation, and legends tell that he accidentally left open a portal to Hell."
Yes, certainly one source on the operation. Have you seen such things in books about the Art, Lakshana? I believe that should answer Pilgrims question (and I admit I'm curious now too).