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Any surviving alchemists who are hundreds of years old?

microwatt

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What do you think they have to say? would would it be like to meet somebody who has lived so long. would even the oldest person be seen as a child to them? would they have acquired wisdom? how could one identify such a person? would they have a different appearance than modern people? look at how the renaissance artwork drew folk. they do not look like the person of the 21st century at all.
 

Kibric

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There are individuals who have achieved longevity throughout history but given the private nature of practical alchemy, no official alchemists on record today being over 100.
 

microwatt

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i am not asking if there would be official records but speculations on what it wold be like to meet somebody actually that old and not senile
 

Awani

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There is a thread you might like regarding the concept of immortality: Physical Immortality... on THIS Earth?

Below quote is from this thread mentioned above:

I guess it comes down to what outlook one has. When my car breaks down I simply by a new one. The old car is dead, but my new one is alive. And guess what... I am still driving. That is what death is to me... so any concept of trying to make my old shitty car last longer sounds ridiculous... why waste that energy when a brand new porsche is waiting for me.

So for me it would not be interesting to meet someone that was 300 years old. I would ask: "What the hell are you still doing here?"

I don't think someone that is that old is wise, although they might have lots of knowledge and insight regarding history... but wisdom I don't think they have (not more than someone that is 95 years old). There is "only" so much wisdom you can get in this realm. If you want to learn more you got to move onwards. Imagine taking the same course in school 20 times. You might know that particular course well, but you know nothing of the next course... nothing about 2.0.

If we assume there is annihilation when we die then I still don't think immortality is worth it. Once your friends and children have died what's the point? How many dead children or friends do you really want to suffer through? It would be boring to be a hermit also for 300 years... There is a reason they call being a Vampire a curse. It's not the curse of drinking blood or not seeing the sun... the curse is that they walk the Earth forever.

:p
 

zoas23

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The Rosicrucian perspective is interesting. I won't waste time looking for the exact paragraphs because I am lazy today, but:

-Fama o Confessio explains that the Rosicrucians know how to heal ANY sickness, and yet they CAN'T extend their lives beyond the day that God has chosen for them to die and they can't even known WHEN they are going to die (they make an exception with C. Rosenkreuz, who knew WHEN he was going to die, but not how to "cheat death"). In short, they propose a healthy life, but explicitly say that it won't be longer than the life they would have had without alchemy (simply "free from the pain of the sicknesses"). They also give C.R. a relatively long life, 106 years... but not 350 years.

-The Speculum Sophicum Rhodostauroticum claims that the Ergon (Stone) will make the author "some day" go to Heaven... but he never says that he will live longer... he wants the Stone to cause a "redemption".

-Daniel Cramer in his 40 Emblems (later extended to 50) is VERY pessimistic about this world and proposes a Stone that also gives "redemption"... not a longer life (which he certainly does not want).

There are other examples, but I think it's interesting that they go so strong against the idea of extending the life (they are skeptic about it, besides from not wanting it).
 

Kibric

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Daniel Cramer in his 40 Emblems (later extended to 50) is VERY pessimistic about this world and proposes a Stone that also gives "redemption"... not a longer life (which he certainly does not want).
Lol.

There are other examples, but I think it's interesting that they go so strong against the idea of extending the life
Its the karma argument.The Rosicrucian's influenced by Egypt and Hinduism adopted some concepts and adapted them to Christianity in they're writings.
Why they didn't realise that the Hindu concept especially has the aim of removing all karma good and bad, too achieve physical immortality,
not just pop out at some appointed time, but retain a lasting physical body then later give that up at your choosing. I don't know.
Its almost impossible to miss. CR Valentin was a prime example of trying to retain a lasting physical body. Not cheat death but negate it.
 

zoas23

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Lol.


Its the karma argument.The Rosicrucian's influenced by Egypt and Hinduism adopted some concepts and adapted them to Christianity in they're writings.
Why they didn't realise that the Hindu concept especially has the aim of removing all karma good and bad, too achieve physical immortality,
not just pop out at some appointed time, but retain a lasting physical body then later give that up at your choosing. I don't know.
Its almost impossible to miss. CR Valentin was a prime example of trying to retain a lasting physical body. Not cheat death but negate it.

I don't think the influence of India or Egypt was as important as it was the influence of the most radicalized Lutheranism (specially the idea of predestination... they considered that "cheating death" was more or less similar to trying to deceive God's will).
 

tAlc

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given the private nature of practical alchemy,

I think an alchemist has the ability to make portals, and having the ability to transcend to the more subtle realms and slip out of ''reality'' as we commonly know it. There was a book I forgot the name, that said that at a certain order of the stone it will emit light, and eventually pass through the vessel. IF one harbored it and consumed it, I think the body would convert itself, like a you are what you eat thing. Is this why Moses's face was shining bright light?
Private and also well hidden.
 
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Kibric

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IF one harbored it and consumed it, I think the body would convert itself, like a you are what you eat thing. Is this why Moses's face was shining bright light?
9 days of eating it and you develop a light body, etc.

Seth was called the shining one, Mohammed met a shining one in a cave, jesus created a body of light, there are lots of examples.
Definitely there is a link to universal medicine and its aid in developing a light body. Technically all light bodies or shining ones are bodies of radiation.

Moses face shining light is his seat of the soul, ajna, emitting radiation. Muppu or the philosophers stone was part of his diet somehow i think.
I'm sure there is reference to Moses eating manna somewhere.

Keys for what ?.
 

Anterior Taproot

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I think that after 200+ years they would be emotionally numb. They would see the futility in striving, and if they were still living after such a long time they would have probably developed a great level of patience and be filled with a deep inner peace. They would probably also be either very charming, or extremely short tempered and abrupt. Dealing with humanity for 200+ years would be exhausting, especially with the history we have had in our last two centuries.
 

Michael Sternbach

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It has always been the aim of the Alchemists to perfectionate Creation and to help uplifting it to the level of the Spirit - starting with themselves!

Now Spirit is naturally everlasting - in fact it may be the only truly immortal part in most individuals. I believe that, having transferred the perfection of Spirit to their own mind and body, the adept whose life span has thus been extended indefinitely would naturally turn to activities designed to lead the rest of the cosmos towards its ultimate destination.

Bored? Frustrated? I don't think so...
 

tAlc

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Keys for what ?.

if you're ever locked outside your house or can't find your keys, look to the sky and say ''Future''. The answer lies here.

Shoutout to Chasm and Schmuldvich. Thank you both for your contribution. You two have my eternal gratitude, as you both have helped me tremendously.
 
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Glauber

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The Rosicrucian perspective is interesting. I won't waste time looking for the exact paragraphs because I am lazy today, but:

-Fama o Confessio explains that the Rosicrucians know how to heal ANY sickness, and yet they CAN'T extend their lives beyond the day that God has chosen for them to die and they can't even known WHEN they are going to die (they make an exception with C. Rosenkreuz, who knew WHEN he was going to die, but not how to "cheat death"). In short, they propose a healthy life, but explicitly say that it won't be longer than the life they would have had without alchemy (simply "free from the pain of the sicknesses"). They also give C.R. a relatively long life, 106 years... but not 350 years.

-The Speculum Sophicum Rhodostauroticum claims that the Ergon (Stone) will make the author "some day" go to Heaven... but he never says that he will live longer... he wants the Stone to cause a "redemption".

-Daniel Cramer in his 40 Emblems (later extended to 50) is VERY pessimistic about this world and proposes a Stone that also gives "redemption"... not a longer life (which he certainly does not want).

There are other examples, but I think it's interesting that they go so strong against the idea of extending the life (they are skeptic about it, besides from not wanting it).

Please, continue.... lol.
 

Anterior Taproot

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Imagine how indifferent you must be, to have to see wars, and birth and death and strife, time after time. Realizing the futility of almost all of life. I hear the trick is to "embody the stone". Some old guy who looked like he was half his actual age told me that. Maybe he was just a nut. Or maybe he was the stone.
 

Andro

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Imagine how indifferent you must be, to have to see wars, and birth and death and strife, time after time. Realizing the futility of almost all of life. I hear the trick is to "embody the stone". Some old guy who looked like he was half his actual age told me that. Maybe he was just a nut. Or maybe he was the stone.

Why "the futility of almost all life"? Which parts of life are in you view not futile?

Also, maybe that guy wasn't really that old, but only told you he was twice the age he actually was?
 

Anterior Taproot

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Andro, iI'd rather not tell everyone that all of life is futile, they can figure it out themselves. Your question kept me occupied for 20 minutes trying to name one thing that wasn't utterly futile.
I wish I could embody that futility in my daily life and do whatever I saw fit without the guilt of my social conditioning. I find it easy to get stuck in the drama and poor decision making of others who don't recognize that futility. It just happens and I react out of habit. Andro, do you know of any ways to purge mental thought habits?

Amazing Awani.
 

Awani

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Andro, iI'd rather not tell everyone that all of life is futile, they can figure it out themselves. Your question kept me occupied for 20 minutes trying to name one thing that wasn't utterly futile.

As I understand what has been written I could not disagree more. There is nothing futile about life at all. Anyone that feels it is futile needs to kill themselves and leave more room for the rest of us.

If you play a video game you do so because you enjoy the game. There is no reason or point to playing a video game other than enjoying it. If you are playing a video game and you are not enjoying it then you turn it off. Life is an experience. If you don't want the experience get out.

Although I have a sneaky feeling that anyone that kill themselves are destined for certain rebirth. I suspect the Divine Mystery looks down on quitters. IMO.

I wish I could embody that futility in my daily life and do whatever I saw fit without the guilt of my social conditioning.

Are you talking about the Cosmic Joke here? If you are then I think looking at it as a joke is way more beneficial than as futile. It's always better to look at something with a positive perspective rather than a negative.

:p
 

Andro

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There is no reason or point to playing a video game other than enjoying it.
Addiction.

I wish I could embody that futility in my daily life and do whatever I saw fit without the guilt of my social conditioning.
This would be a very genuine and heartfelt path, IMO... Fully recognizing the futility and pointlessness of almost :))) everything, and yet acting as if it all matters, but without any of the baggage and conditioning. Castaneda referred to it as "controlled folly".
 

Awani

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It does not have to be addiction. Everyone that smokes is not addicted. Every drinker is not an alcoholic. As for the controlled folly, to me, that is simply enjoying the cosmic joke/giggle. Same thing but with a positive spin as folly is negative and ”laughter” is not.

:p
 

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The reason someone likes something is 100% because of their interpretations of the sensory information. You like the game because of what it represents to you(bonding with people, team work, dopamine hits from wins, suspense, close calls, etc). Your wife hates you playing the game because what that sensory information represents to her(you're not spending time with her, you're laughing and joking around with other people and she feels threatened). Life in itself is from a limited human perspective is very futile. I use the word (futile) for its actual meaning: "incapable of producing any useful result; pointless". Maybe from the "grand one and all"'s perspective there is a point, but from ours, there isn't. We can make them up but it's all subjective.

If you for one second thing that you like that steak dinner and glass of wine, or the game (let's just use call of duty) or talking to your friends on facebook or whatever else, you are fooling yourself because of the shallowness of your observation. The steak dinner and wine is nothing but tortured rotting flesh and rotten fruit kept that way for weeks, months and years. The game is at it's core a place where you are rewarded for killing friends and strangers with the best accuracy possible. The interactions on facebook are shallow and only a fraction of the sensory information of one on one interaction and held between two online personas that create even less accurate than one on one interactions because you aren't as accountable for truth as "in person" interactions.

Everything you "love" and move towards and everything you "hate" and run away from is because of your mind and how it processes information. Life in itself is futile and pointless that does not mean unenjoyable. It doesn't mean bad, not worth living. It means you have to assign the value to things or else you take the default values that your environment assigns to you. To have to be faced with that fact for 300 years would probably be very difficult. It would probably be hard to keep up the charade of things having inherent value.

And as for addiction. Not all addiction is unmanageable. Addiction means "a physically and mentally dependence on a particular substance or thing or thought. We are all addicted to multiple things. If you don't recognize that you will be liable to self deception at a greater degree.

I may seem like a downer or a buzzkill but that is because the people who see these words that way lack the ability to reason correctly. If you don't understand the true cost of things you will most obviously under or overvalue interpretations and representations. That will most definitely lead to a lack of understanding of causes and effects and their causes and effects and their correlations.

Bad only sucks to you because you think "bad" is supposed to be avoided. "Embody the stone", sense life for what it is.
 

Awani

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The only thing futile here is that post you just wrote.

...is because the people who see these words that way lack the ability to reason correctly.

Or maybe because the individual who wrote those words lack intelligence to use them correctly?

:p
 

Larry Hall

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Oh boy where do i start...

In my beginnings, one of the reason that made me research alchemy is fear of death...by time this fear decreased and you get a broad view of what life is ...the more you know..and the more you experience..

for me..experience is everything..you can store thousands of books on a USB flash drive ( you brain ) ..and this is futile...

intelligence and your mental growth is increased by connecting the dots and learning to recognize patterns and create new things from this..not memorizing information..

a person who have cultivated this faculty can invent the whole science from beginning..he knows the fundamentals and have the right "intelligence" or whatever it is..


i can read a book about how to drive a car or how to swim, but no way I'll be able to that unless Iam learning and experiencing it..

and that's folks what it is all about..

we ..humans...don't grow past a certain limit..our consciousness remain very limited...it stops after we graduate and start a job..

we just learn from our birth ..how society function..what should we do and don't..what goals shall we achieve...we copy and do all what the elders say...and remain as this...

our fundamental essence stops growing.. our desires are the same even if we are no longer 10 years old but 50 years old..

we still have the essence of a child..

you get what I'm saying?

with this level of consciousness...it's very dangerous and indeed futile to reach immortality..if you become immortal..most likely you'll create problem for yourself and others too..

it's like a natural barrier..only who have cultivated enough his faculties reach higher awareness, consciousness and knowledge, and naturally can be immortal, he can do that since he acquired the needed means to do that..

but if you are still a man who is a child with basic consciousness..essence..desires.. it will be a struggle...and yes

supposedly by luck you stumble upon how to be immortal..i don't think you'll be happy... you current level of awareness and personality is attached to family..friends..people..and need them...you'll be alone watching people born and die leaving you..what kind of hell is this ( to your current awareness of course )

immortality isn't impossible..question is..are we ready for it?

let's talk a little bit about biology...

a man and woman..say in their 40's ..

can give birth to a young healthy child that will grow normally..well this is a miracle ..

how can and old couple give birth to something young and new..

their old body gave existence to a young body!

everything in our body ages...except the sexual cells responsible for producing sperms and eggs..

otherwise we will have old babies haha

so, our designers who engineered our human race decided that we age and die by time ..only a specific part of us don't age so the human race can continue ..of course..

biologically, yes, with the right genetic engineering we can achieve cells that can run through infinite divisions without losing and shortening the DNA .. the hayflick limit will not be a problem ..

think about our current civilization and the impact of some lab or scientists achieved this kind of technology...everyone will try to get it...let's not talk about dictators...our birth rate how will be impacted..wars..our concept of life it self will change..

i don't think it's a good idea...the current level of awareness we have can't be granted immortality ..

in the other hand..we have alchemy that can achieve the same results of genetic engineering and beyond and grant us with body that don't die by ageing and diseases..

that's the last level...you can make gold..you can heal diseases using alchemy...but you can't achieve immortality unless you have a great understanding of how nature works.........................................................