Alchemy vs. Spagyric (& Archemy)

[Merovee]

Hi Black,
I'll try to respond to your thoughts then. But please remember that my experiences are not the same as yours:

Ok, Spagyric is an artificial word possibly formed by Paracelsus, combining two Greek words (spao = to separate and ageiro = to bring together). Before that it was simply the gold maker's art and only connected with the art of healing insofar as it was practised by doctors or apothecaries (but that wasn't even rare). In any case, one can say that Paracelsus laid the foundation for today's chemistry with his spagyric. However, he was not the only one, at about the same time there was also an adept who called himself Basilius Valentinus and who developed and recorded some spagyric procedures, but he only became known later.

His spagyric consisted of two parts, the essential part concerns alchemy, and so the majority of his instructions must be understood as analogies for alchemical or philosophical work, they should in no case be taken literally, but must be broken down philosophically before one set to work. The other part served to pass on minor or even ordinary but useful arcana which anyone can learn and usefully insert into a renewal of medicine which Paracelsus felt necessary.


Your suspicions are well founded, because in fact, the spagyric processes are not alchemical works, and many things are wrong from an alchemical point of view. I have already shown what is wrong with their calcination, which is supposed to produce the fixed sulphur. The result is a salt, but not something like a philosophical sulphur. Nor is it true that the ethereal oils represent the volatile sulphur; they may contain much sulphur, but alchemically the volatile as well as the fixed sulphur are one and the same; from the volatile one makes the fixed, and from the fixed one makes the volatile sulphur; it is then quite like a golden oil floating on the mercurial water, but it can only be obtained from the fixed sulphur.

Alcohol may be arising with the help of Mercury, but it is not therefore itself a Mercury. Consider: is alcohol then that special power of growth and greening or does it concentrate it in itself? Is alcohol the primordial source of those healing powers in plants which the spagyric methods are supposed to bring out and increase? The error in their view lies in the fact that they don’t understand the dissolving principle of mercury. It is not a chemical process but consists in opening the seals or bonds of matter and, acting on its inner, passive forces, activates them and from there purifies matter by its own secret fire. It's not about transfer something into a solution, but about transforming it into a special state. The spagyric process, then, with its "so-as-if-doing", is merely an analogy to the alchemical process.

For a better understanding, let us contrast the analogy with the actual process: when asked to do so, the spagyricist actually puts his jars into horse manure (or into something like this). However, it is clear to the alchemist what is actually meant by this: he puts his matter into a state of putrefaction so that it soon shows the appearance of horse dung, for this is the horse dung which warms and nourishes the secret quintessence resting within itself. The spagyricist sees an analogy in the quintessence, not in horse dung. For the alchemist it is just the other way round.

Spagyric corresponds probably to transubstantiation in the church, it is said that bread and wine undergo a transformation through consecration. Although the transformation does not really take place, this process definitely evokes positive experiences (which can be very far-reaching for the faithful). By this I mean that the matter which is treated spagyrically in this way can certainly be influenced positively.


The actual philosophical Mercury is called Spiritus Vini for several reasons, firstly because of its appearance, then because of its analogy (a fiery water etc.) to the spirit of wine (ethanol), but secondly also because its secret is linked to that of wine. But I wouldn't rack my brains over that because it is a real secret, and no human being can fathom such a secret with the help of his intellect; they only reveal themselves out of themselves, on the level of true being. Furthermore, just as there is a red wine and a white wine, our Mercury also appears once red and once of a white, translucent clarity. Of course, it is also called a fire (a secret fire or a fiery water), but, and this is not an allegory, it resists fire like the salamander. Unlike the spirit of wine, which perishes completely in fire, our Mercury remains steadfast and cannot be distressed by fire. Another secret, which I must not go into, is that it conceals a living gold. Although of a different nature, it surpasses the brilliance of ordinary gold with its radiant brightness; Fulcanelli compared it to the star of Bethlehem. But this is not to be found in the least in the ordinary spirit of wine, and all spagyricists have no idea of it.
There is another thing that the adepts like to keep hidden, not because it touches the real secrets, but so that no one can pretend that they are doing the true Work. There is something like an indicator, an unmistakable sign by which the practising alchemist can check whether he has prepared the right mercury and is on the right path. Through a small grip the Mercury shows the hermetic seal in the colours of the work. Therefore, the alchemist can easily check whether one has the true mercury, and believe me, neither the ethanol nor any other solvent of the spagyricists shows this sign.

With the true Sulphur there is a very special relationship. Some call this our sulphur, others call that our sulphur, but what it really is remains a mystery. The adepts have said nothing but confusing things in their writings (those who disagree have not yet realised that they are being consciously and intentionally confused on this point, and this in a particularly sophisticated way), and it can take many years to realise that and arrive at least one concrete and well-founded assumption. Therefore, I leave it at that and do not interfere in the affairs of the masters. Just this: how should the spagyricists, who are far more confused than we are and not have the slightest chance of ever getting their hands on it, know what it is and how it is? In fact, they know even less about the Sulphur than they do about the Mercury.

Not everything I have said is irrefutably true, but some of it is, and not just a little of it. However, I do not want to offend the spagyricists who are in this forum. I respect their work, and do not consider it superfluous, everyone should go their own way, and this way is always and for everyone the best.
Apart from that, I was mainly talking about modern plant spagyric, from Basilius Valentinus to the Rosicrucians of the 18th century, many spagyric instructions have come into the public domain, which are more akin to alchemy, although there is often talk of transformations, there are usually no alleged "universals" there.
Ok?

 

[Merovee]

What I forgot to say (it concerns the picture posted):
Of course it is not the real Mercurius Philosophorum, I chose the picture because it makes a good comparison. I wanted to show how much the real Mercury can differ from the false one or a so-called Mercury.
You can also see one way of making a hidden sign visible, you can make it cast a shadow, hold it against strong sunlight, make a drop flow on a glass plate or do something else like that, you just have to examine it carefully.

 

[black]

Hi Black,
I'll try to respond to your thoughts then.

Thank you Merovee for your response, I have enjoyed reading it and I do apologise for taking so long to reply.

In any case, one can say that Paracelsus laid the foundation for today's chemistry with his spagyric.
However, he was not the only one, at about the same time there was also an adept who called himself Basilius Valentinus and who developed and recorded some spagyric procedures, but he only became known later.
His spagyric consisted of two parts, the essential part concerns alchemy, and so the majority of his instructions must be understood as analogies for alchemical or philosophical work, they should in no case be taken literally, but must be broken down philosophically before one set to work.

Yes Merovee, I believe it was from these analogies/allegories (from most of the Old Masters) that the majority of the students of this Art did take it literally and unfortunately for them, interpret it as being the correct processes and materials to use.

Your suspicions are well founded, because in fact, the spagyric processes are not alchemical works, and many things are wrong from an alchemical point of view.

As you have written "the spagyric processes are not alchemical works" but to be a "true Spagyric" they need to be Alchemic.

Consider: is alcohol then that special power of growth and greening or does it concentrate it in itself?

No, Alcohol (Ethanol) does not have the power of growth.

Is alcohol the primordial source of those healing powers in plants which the spagyric methods are supposed to bring out and increase?

I agree, the Alcohol (Ethanol) has no healing power as the plants can have.

The error in their view lies in the fact that they don’t understand the dissolving principle of "Mercury".
It is not a chemical process but consists in opening the seals or bonds of matter and, acting on its inner, passive forces, activates them and from there purifies matter by its own secret fire.

Yes, we need the Mercury as it has a natural affinity with the Quintessence.

Spagyric corresponds to transubstantiation in the church, it is said that bread and wine undergo a transformation through consecration.
Although the transformation does not really take place, this process definitely evokes positive experiences.
By this I mean that the matter which is treated spagyrically in this way can certainly be influenced positively.

This Process can also be used in conjunction with Alchemy with very profound results.

The actual philosophical Mercury is called Spiritus Vini for several reasons, firstly because of its appearance, then because of its analogy (a fiery water etc.) to the spirit of wine (ethanol), but secondly also because its secret is linked to that of wine.
But I wouldn't rack my brains over that because it is a real secret, and no human being can fathom such a secret with the help of his intellect; they only reveal themselves out of themselves, on the level of true being.
Furthermore, just as there is a red wine and a white wine, our Mercury also appears once red and once of a white, translucent clarity.

I won't comment on this part as it is very easy to get lost in the labyrinth of Mercuries if we are not careful with the terminology we use.

Unlike the spirit of wine, which perishes completely in fire, our Mercury remains steadfast and cannot be distressed by fire.
Of course, it is also called a fire (a secret fire or a fiery water), but, and this is not an allegory, it resists fire like the Salamander.

I see things a little different here ... I view the Quintessence as Our Salamander that is not affected by the Fire.

Another secret, which I must not go into, is that it conceals a living gold.
Although of a different nature, it surpasses the brilliance of ordinary gold with its radiant brightness; Fulcanelli compared it to the star of Bethlehem.
But this is not to be found in the least in the ordinary spirit of wine, and all spagyricists have no idea of it.

Yes Merovee, I would agree with most of this.

There is another thing that the adepts like to keep hidden, not because it touches the real secrets, but so that no one can pretend that they are doing the true Work.
There is something like an indicator, an unmistakable sign by which the practising alchemist

can check whether he has prepared the right Mercury and is on the right path.

Through a small grip the Mercury shows the hermetic seal in the colours of the work.

Therefore, the alchemist can easily check whether one has the True Mercury, and believe me, neither the ethanol nor any other solvent of the spagyricists shows this sign.

How very true and important this test is for every Alchemist that believes he has found the
Great Mercury (Secret solvent / SM / etc).

Just this:
how should the spagyricists, who are far more confused than we are and not have the slightest chance of ever getting their hands on it, know what it is and how it is?

In fact, they know even less about the Sulphur than they do about the Mercury.

Without a doubt, the Sulphur will never be found without the Mercury.

 

[Jimmy Rig]

Alchemy is grand, the king of the land, who from natures plan uniquely stands,
Much to read, learn and see as one learns to observe without forming plans,
Trust in God and a willing heart will soon stand you in your path,
To walk on forth through all the lands you will meet in happenstance.

One must be strong, devoted and always in prayer if one is to unlock the keys to this mysterious lair. Marching ahead at full pace initially seems great and then, it doesn't.
You search and search and find but what you found did not give you satisfaction but simply more questions.

Finally you are over the hump and still love your alchemical quest but are okay with the yet un-solved questions that you have arrived at so far in your quest. You stop along your path to admire some very common weeds along the path which after some observation you realize they are actually medicinal plants with life energy and secret fire running through them and animating them in the world. You realize that this energy can be respected, conserved and refined. You have learnt a valuable lesson, that there are gems under our nose waiting to be noticed. You haven't unlocked all the keys of alchemy but you have learned a new appreciation for the life in and of plants. This naturally leads to a sprouting of new understandings.


For myself, this is sort of the path I find myself on, initially I was very excited about the possibility of the Philosophers Stone; no convincing necessary, 100% believe in the stone and that it has been acquired. After racking my brain more than necessary for some time I got a little bit more familiar with spagyrics, and "basic" herbal preparations because I was already learning about herbs and happened to have the lab equipment for alchemy. At this point I feel that I can now relax and contemplate the deeper mysteries of life and alchemy without the rush to figure anything out. I am much closer to the stone today than I was 2 years ago and its not due to spending all day racking my brain about it.


For me,

Spagyrics is a way to get some hands on experience with life energy and mother nature. It is a way and a method of making good medicines, and provides a good foundation for alchemy and healing modalities. It can provide clues as to the purpose of alchemy. It is viewed as basic by some and complex by others, as being mystical to some and not to others. Both views are correct, it depends on the operator doing the spagyrics.

Once again,
For me,
Alchemy is the search for connection or reaching out to the divine, for you will not be able to comprehend what it even is if you have not made peace with the divine. It will lead to the stone if practiced correctly and if this is the genuine intent of the being.
Not necessarily a laboratory practice, but can be if this is the path of the operator.

P.s. You are divine.
P.s. Muggles can't do magic.

 

[Merovee]

Jimmy Rig:

Very well said, Jimmy. It seems to me that you understood what I wanted to say: Spagyric is a special and valuable, but profane art; on the other hand, alchemy is a sacred one, which also means that spagyric is not alchemy, but it is so close to it that differentiation is necessary, especially when many people do not notice these differences, ignore them, or confuse them altogether. But especially when some tend to portray alchemy as a primitive precursor of spagyric.
However, I should add that Alchemy only acquires its sacred character in the further course of the work. Its beginning is quite ordinary in a rather sober and almost disappointing way, apart from the inner preparation.


Black:

I see things a little different here ... I view the Quintessence as Our Salamander that is not affected by the Fire.

My friend, I do not know what exactly you mean by quintessence. The quintessence is the secret fire within matter that takes on different manifestations as we work. It is, however, our solid philosophical gold, usually called the salamander of the sages, though I would differentiate and say that it is probably the quintessence of the philosophical gold, in appearance like an oil or blood, which should be so called. If that is what you meant, I can agree with you here.

Its hieroglyph or symbol is indeed the salamander, which resists fire, and Plinius the Elder says about this one: ... they know neither male nor female and were not born but have an origin comparable to nothing....
But it would be miserable if we couldn’t say more about it. Whose name can be traced back to ancient Sumer: mander/mandra goes back etymologically to (sum.) NAM-TAR, which means the power of death, but also stands in the meaning of destiny (NAMTARU is the god of fate). SAL-LA (sum.) is now the vulva or the (female) womb (our word shell - meaning bowl, cup or mussel - has its origin there). In fact, it is the blood and water from the Salamander, whom we also call the Phoenix, that fills the Chalice of Destiny. But beware, do not jump to conclusions! The mysteries of truth may be revealed, but the bridechamber is hidden. It is the sacred in the sacred.

And if we are clever, we realise that this is indeed interwoven with one of the greatest sacred taboos, a taboo that is now constantly being carelessly transgressed throughout the world by modern, ignorant humanity.

 

[Andro]

this is indeed interwoven with one of the greatest sacred taboos, a taboo that is now constantly being carelessly transgressed throughout the world by modern, ignorant humanity.

What "taboo"? Anything to do with sex/gender? Or death? Or both?

they know neither male nor female and were not born but have an origin comparable to nothing

Beautiful!

 

[Merovee]

Ok...
I told you, don't jump to conclusions, but well, I can straighten it out a bit: it concerns the blood of man, which in many ways is subject to a whole series of taboos, and especially that of women. But that doesn't mean that the alchemist works with her blood, only idiots would assume such a thing (there are those, though, and because of these nutcases, I'd rather keep a low profile.), it's about the same secret that connects the different things, and it should only contribute something to the understanding here.
I hope this has been cleared up, I will not go into it again.
sl

 

[black]

I would differentiate and say that it is probably the quintessence of the philosophical gold, in appearance like an oil or blood, which should be so called.

If that is what you meant, I can agree with you here.

Yes Merovee, that is exactly how I see it.

 

[tAlc]

The more I read of Paracelsus it becomes clearer that he uses the word Spagyric as a term to describe "the process" of Alchemy and not a separate science.

I told @JDP this one time years ago. Instead of METALS we are in the PLANT KINGDOM of the THREE... NEXT IS ANIMAL. Paracelsus talks about HOMUNCULUS later too.

Metals, plants, animal.

This is how I see things.

 

[Christophorus]

Oh I have no idea; I was simply trying to purify the sulfur principle by first distilling it off the chaos (in the form of an essence)on a higher heat followed by what you see in the set-up; low heat distillation. I could achieve this objective (the concentrating of cleaned principle) with an open flask or container on a gentle heat source but would lose the water or volatile portion which is useful for further processing the earth. Not too worried about seals (but not claiming this is the great work either..)
You could effect the same results via immersion, settlement and decantation as well.

In the past I have attempted to hermetically seal this setup, instead of a random glass jar for a reciever I use a wine bottle with bee's wax between the receiver and the condenser (rolled into a "ring" on the condenser, then slide the wine bottle over the ring).. I was doing this because I was trying to isolate the most volatile portion of the work (not on melissa) and was able to note distinct differences between the "most volatile" and "least volatile" to go over the receiver. By knowing this, and temperature we can have a good idea of what we can expect to go and what will stay; it seems like there is always some fraction of mixing regardless though.
I think though, if I deleted the water from the equation, than tight seals would be a must. It is a useful medium in that it offers more control; as a carrier but also slows down the working considerably.

For example;

You could take a dried herb, distill off the oil's and calcine the body to a salt; not sure where you get the mercury in this case;
combine the two through.. unknown mercury. (what if you don't dry the herb and let its own moisture become, through fermenation the alchohol or mercury, distill this at low heat (SEALED) and then higher heat for the less volatile oils (sulfur) calcine and process the salt, recombine the principles..

With water;
Take a dried herb, immerse in hot water (steep'd) or organic chemistry extraction sohxlet method, percolator, etc . point is, water, over time, with some heat.

Take the extracted herb, burn it and get the salt.
Take the extraction liquid "essence" and on a low heat concentrate your sulphur principle via evaporation; combine with the salt, calcine, repeat..
The essence will turn black; when you combine this with the salt and evaporate it there is white.. cream looking stuff in the terra damnata; but not entirely. I think it takes many cycles; problem is after 2-3 rotations it becomes very difficult to calcine the earth back to whiteness to get salts.

Anyways, the combining seems easier with water as a medium. But it may slow the manifestation of a stone, oil, powder or whatever we are trying to achieve as it will be diluted.

Just learning here; thanks!

On the thread topic (promted by andro's reminder).. The prima materia?
Prime: "of first importance; main."
"of the best possible quality; excellent."
Probably not a material we have a common name for; it seems to be the end goal of the common "particular" materials. I think there are many starting matters that could lead to a sort of prima materia. Hence why this thread speaks of many different particular ways of working; albeit with similar manifestations as we get (somewhat) closer to the blueprint.

Hello dear @Jimmy Rig ! I will answer in this topic because I think it kind of touches both world's (+ - )

I believe you touched on a point that can bring the subject of Prima Materia to the table.
When I was working with plants one thing I noticed was a certain "standard" regarding the plant work that was a bit different from what the old philosophers referred to. in their protocols.

The standard is (in short):
Dry the plant, distill to get the oil, ferment the plant to get alcohol (or use the universal grape alcohol), distill and rectifý the alcohol, and burn the plant to get the salts. Then put it together with the given proportions.
If you know/can volatilize the salts, it will be a big plus!

All this is amazing, and it will produce a very good medicine. But this standard does not take into consideration the Prima Materia that can transmute this kind of medicine into a very high medicine of the plant kingdom.

In my view, the SM is present in Vegetable Life. It's already there, in a specified form, because SM is the cause of the plant (the plant is the visible consequence or the specification of it: the matter itself) we are working. So what is needed it to let HIM manifest itself - still in an invisible way - and then provide HIM with the proper conditions so that HIM can fix itself in the world of forms.

As I see it, this can happen if we putrify the plant. This is if we kill the plant according to the art. A Kind of ritual dead, where everything stays together in a chaotic form. The time that takes to get the plant and to place it in its coffin, should be the minimum to ensure that everything will be subject to the process. In my view, this is a way to preserve the most volatile to process later, and a mean to ensure high virtue in the plant work.

This is to say that, a standard is just a standard, we can create/recreate/rethink things.

PS
Love your burner!

All the best;
C.

 

[Alkhemehn]

So Spagyrics is mostly plant-derived human medicines, would you say?