• The migration to this new platform is complete, but there are a lot of details to sort out. If you find something that needs to be fixed make a post in this thread. Thank you for your patience!

Alchemy, The Holy Science

True Initiate

Lapidem
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
1,115
It's called the Holy Science because only a man of great virtue can complete the work.
The penitent man shall pass!

That's funny because they called it "Womans work and child's play" as well.
 

Uncle Scrooge

Rectificando
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
155
That part has been solved with Saltpeter and Tartar. Just replace Antimony with Bethel stone in the old recipes and you are good to go.

Alfr asks which type of meteorite to choose from? Their chemical composition is always the same the difference is only in the proportions which result in different type of crystalization. Octahedrite are the best followed by hexahedrite and chondrites are the most common type and usually of poor quality and more of a stony nature.

It's hard to believe the bethel stone will work the same way as antimony but I will try that just out of curiosity.
 

True Initiate

Lapidem
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
1,115
Don't forget to add earthly iron because heavenly meteoric iron was considered female and earthly male.

Why would Fulcanelli talk about Cybele? What other stone was considered holy?



Everybody knows that Cybele was a meteoric stone brought to Rome during the punic wars.

https://andrewgough.co.uk/goddess/
 
Last edited:

Argento Vivo

Rectificando
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Feb 16, 2020
Messages
188
Don't forget to add earthly iron because heavenly meteoric iron was considered female and earthly male.

Why would Fulcanelli talk about Cybele? What other stone was considered holy?



Everybody knows that Cybele was a meteoric stone brought to Rome during the punic wars.

https://andrewgough.co.uk/goddess/

What about Haymon (and Flamel etc) quote from Amiens chapter? It is ambiguous
 

True Initiate

Lapidem
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
1,115
Can you post those quotes here?
 

Seraphim

Invenies
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 5, 2018
Messages
407
:confused:

594px-A_Rosicrucian_Crucifixion_by_John_Augustus_Knapp.jpg
 

Seraphim

Invenies
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 5, 2018
Messages
407
:confused:

Surah Taha 20:17-23

˹Allah added,˺ “And what is that in your right hand, O Moses?”

He said, "It is my staff; I lean upon it, and I bring down leaves for my sheep and I have therein other uses."

Allah said, “Throw it down, O Moses!”

So he threw it down, and thereupon it was a snake, moving swiftly.

Allah said, “Take it, and have no fear. We will return it to its former state.

And draw in your hand to your side; it will come out white without disease - another sign,

That We may show you [some] of Our greater signs.

Exodus 4:1-12

Then Moses replied, “But what if they don’t believe me or pay attention to me? They might say to me, ‘The Lord didn’t appear to you!’”

The Lord said to him, “What’s that in your hand?”

Moses replied, “A shepherd’s rod.”

The Lord said, “Throw it down on the ground.” So Moses threw it on the ground, and it turned into a snake. Moses jumped back from it.

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Reach out and grab the snake by the tail.” So Moses reached out and grabbed it, and it turned back into a rod in his hand.

“Do this so that they will believe that the Lord, the God of their ancestors, Abraham’s God, Isaac’s God, and Jacob’s God has in fact appeared to you.”

Again, the Lord said to Moses, “Put your hand inside your coat.” So Moses put his hand inside his coat. When he took his hand out, his hand had tzara’at—white as snow.

Then God said, “Put your hand back inside your coat.” So Moses put his hand back inside his coat. When he took it back out again, the skin of his hand had returned to normal.

“If they won’t believe you or pay attention to the first sign, they may believe the second sign.

If they won’t believe even these two signs or pay attention to you, then take some water from the Nile River and pour it out on dry ground. The water that you take from the Nile will turn into blood on the dry ground.”

But Moses said to the Lord, “My Lord, I’ve never been able to speak well, not yesterday, not the day before, and certainly not now since You’ve been talking to Your servant, because I am heavy of mouth and of tongue.”

Then the Lord said to him, “Who gives people the ability to speak? Who’s responsible for making them unable to speak or hard of hearing, sighted or blind? Isn’t it I, the Lord?

So then go, and I myself will be with your mouth, and I will teach you what you must speak.”
 
Last edited:

Jimmy Rig

Occultum
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
711
"With God, Anything is Possible"

Also, true initiate would you happen to be from Texas? ;)

Although I do not doubt that meteorites have some interesting properties, I happen to live in a city that literally is an impact basin,(and thus one of the mineral rich areas in the world.) and I have traveled around enough to know that our region is not endowed with extra philosophical/spiritual properties - though like the rest of the world has its own magical properties if you know how to look. Rather, God is all and in all; thus if you set to work with the right intention, sincerity of heart and a willingness to learn, God may permit you to discover for yourself what is possible. I believe this can take a variety of forms be it a stone, created or natural; internal achievements, even arts of expression such as music..

At least this is what my intuition tells me, I have yet to fully unravel any spools so to speak.
Interesting thread!

P.s. I like the Moses quotes very much.
 

True Initiate

Lapidem
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
1,115
Jimmy sorry for the late reply but i tend to take long breaks between my posts on this forum because alchemy is a lonely science where you need to travel alone with your own understanding which often differs from others so i kinda have nothing to say to people who work with urine, acetates even cinnabar although i love the last path purely out of curiosity.

If you ever cross a real meteorite which in your region is much more probable than here in Europe just poke him with glowing hot iron pointed North beforehand in order to magnetize it before piercing the meteorite.

If the blood and water sprang out of the wound were you pierced the rock then the matter is clearly our true matter but if blood and water doesn't flow from the rock i will reject the meteorites as the first matter.
 

Jimmy Rig

Occultum
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
711
Jimmy sorry for the late reply but i tend to take long breaks between my posts on this forum because alchemy is a lonely science where you need to travel alone with your own understanding which often differs from others so i kinda have nothing to say to people who work with urine, acetates even cinnabar although i love the last path purely out of curiosity.

If you ever cross a real meteorite which in your region is much more probable than here in Europe just poke him with glowing hot iron pointed North beforehand in order to magnetize it before piercing the meteorite.

If the blood and water sprang out of the wound were you pierced the rock then the matter is clearly our true matter but if blood and water doesn't flow from the rock i will reject the meteorites as the first matter.

thanks for your reply True Initiate even though honestly I do not totally understand it.

I just read something interesting regarding an alchemist shielding themselves from the influence of other minds upon their own efforts of precipitation. The necessity to be alone with ones source of being seems very important to success. I love the forums for the interplay of consciousness but yes time away is more than useful to settle out the contents of all our thoughts.

Can you expand on your post a little bit? What is the significance to the glowing hot iron pointed North? I know that you can magnetize iron by heating it red hot, pointing it north and striking it with a hammer. I would expect a different type of attunement will occur if striking a philosophical subject.. care to expand??
 

True Initiate

Lapidem
Patron of the Arts
Honorable Meister
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
1,115
I was implying that you need to magnetize your hot iron rod first before you stab the meteorite with it. You are not striking meteorite with a hammer only the rod and then you stab the meteorite. Meteorite carries certain spirit which is adverse to natural magnetism of this Earth. Iron from meteorite carries another type of energy which is not from this earth but heavenly magnetism, if that makes some sense.
 

Lakshmana

Occultum
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Messages
767
I need to try that with my meteorites interesting
 

Lakshmana

Occultum
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Messages
767
Might be allegorical
 

Seraphim

Invenies
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Jul 5, 2018
Messages
407
???

3. Jesus says, "If those who seek to lead you say to you: 'See, the Kingdom is in Heaven!' then the birds of Heaven will be there before you. If they say to you: 'It is in the sea!' then the fish will be there before you. But the Kingdom is within you and it is outside of you!" "When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will know that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you will be in a state of poverty, and it is you <you will be> the poverty!"

5. Jesus says: ["Know what is be]fore your face, and [what is hidden] from you will be revealed [to you. For there] is [Nothing] hidden which [will] not be made clear, nor <anything> buried which [will not be raised up!"]

10. Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am watching over it until it blazes."

11. Jesus said, "This Heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the Light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

13. Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."

Simon Peter said to Him, "You are like a righteous angel."

Matthew said to Him, "You are like a wise philosopher."

Thomas said to Him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like."

Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring which I have measured out."

And He took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"

Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which He told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."

20. The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what Heaven's Kingdom is like." He said to them, "It's like a grain of mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it falls on prepared soil, it produces a large plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky."

24. His disciples said, "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it." He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is Light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."

50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where are you from?' say to them, 'It is from Light that we have come - from the place where Light, of its own accord alone, came into existence and [stood at rest]. And it has been shown forth in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say 'We are its offspring, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the sign of your Father within you?' say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'"
 
Last edited:

Andro

Alchemical Adept
Magus de Moderatio
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
7,725
Mod Post

@Seraphim - please avoid posting such long quotations, biblical or otherwise, without providing some added context that explains exactly how such quotations are explicitly relevant to the topic of the thread. Thank you.
 

Pilgrim

Occultum
Hermetic Pilgrim
Mysterious Stranger
Joined
Apr 26, 2023
Messages
723
Lol.

The thread is called "The Holy Science" and the scripture is from the Holy Bible...

Oh dear, here we go again.

So as far as you are concerned "Holy" means your definition of that, your flavour of religion and thus you deem the Bible to be the only true "scripture". So how do you feel about the Bhagavad Gita, the Q'uran, the Taoist works?

Alchemy is a work of Nature. Everything needed is out there waiting for the alchemist to collect and process. It doesn't need any silly religious mumbo jumbo. Such notions serve only to keep us in a medieval witchdoctor type age. Mankind is older and wiser thankfully.
 

Jimmy Rig

Occultum
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
711
Oh dear, here we go again.

So as far as you are concerned "Holy" means your definition of that, your flavour of religion and thus you deem the Bible to be the only true "scripture". So how do you feel about the Bhagavad Gita, the Q'uran, the Taoist works?

Alchemy is a work of Nature. Everything needed is out there waiting for the alchemist to collect and process. It doesn't need any silly religious mumbo jumbo. Such notions serve only to keep us in a medieval witchdoctor type age. Mankind is older and wiser thankfully.
It's just in the names of the book and thread. Just saying. Doesn't mean YOU have to think it's Holy.
 

Pilgrim

Occultum
Hermetic Pilgrim
Mysterious Stranger
Joined
Apr 26, 2023
Messages
723
So how do you feel about the Bhagavad Gita, the Q'uran, the Taoist works?
 

Jimmy Rig

Occultum
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
711
I can't speak specifically to any of them because I have not read them but I am not opposed to checking them out since they all appear(from a superficial outside view) to be differing versions of "Received Wisdom" relative to the spheres(and their peoples) of the world they originate from.

I do not take issue with different source documents for religion though perhaps there are some suspect lines in those books as well as the bible that may be offensive to those of different cultural backgrounds. (I grew up in a commonwealth country~ hence Christianity.)

I believe we can pull inspiration from many places in this world and that includes religious texts. It does not mean we need to 100% ascribe to every thing that we read. We also have to remember that humans acting as conduits for the spiritual realms wrote these things and as such there is always the chance for things to get lost in translation.

I also believe that the underlying divine power, whatever you name it or from whatever book you read about it in has the capability of keeping such documents in tact enough (even if the wording changes slightly over the centuries) that the overall message or teaching is able to be preserved. Call it the diamond in the rough, the sediment around it will erode, weather and redeposit but the diamond is forever unchanged you just need to find it.

Maybe this view is "blasphemy" from a religious standpoint but I do not think that it takes away from my faith in God/the source of all being/the divine/ etc in any way.
 

elixirmixer

Thoth
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
3,049
I agree with Andro. Seraphim often does himself a dis-service by not adding context to his posts. And it's for his own good that it's brought up with him repeatedly, since it is clearly Seraphims goal to have constructive conversations with fellow philosophers, but without context it's really hard to engage in a meaningful conversation.

The quotes are some of my all-time favourites from any scriptures though so in this case I've enjoyed the random snippet of the Gospel of Thomas.

This was a major delight in my early years reading of Jesus's discussion on the Light Body.

If you haven't read the Gospel of Thomas, please do. It's not very long and it's so delicious.
 

Pilgrim

Occultum
Hermetic Pilgrim
Mysterious Stranger
Joined
Apr 26, 2023
Messages
723
If you haven't read the Gospel of Thomas, please do. It's not very long and it's so delicious.

Copies of the various gospels that the Church deliberately omitted from their highly constructed, edited and censored "Bible" can be found below:





 

Jimmy Rig

Occultum
Patron of the Arts
Hermetic Pilgrim
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
711
Nice little video I came across;
By a guy named William Donahue
"Few are Chosen"
A great talk on the reality of the mystic nature of christ versus the religious slant.
This guy I think has a fairly sober view about what jesus was about which contrasts nicely against what mainstream religion teaches.
Right versus left hemisphere, meditation, love over law etc.

A good short watch and I feel it has some relevance to Alchemy.
 
Last edited:

Pilgrim

Occultum
Hermetic Pilgrim
Mysterious Stranger
Joined
Apr 26, 2023
Messages
723
Donahue, a Catholic activist nutjob who has tried desperately to play down the appalling institutionalised practice of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.

In 2009, after the release of the official report of the Ryan Commission, whose findings included multiple instances of rape and persuasive evidence of endemic sexual, emotional, and physical abuse throughout the Catholic School system in Ireland,[27] Donohue publicly denied these criminal charges[28] and characterized the media response to the Ryan Report as "hysterical".

In August 2018, Donohue responded to a report by a Pennsylvania grand jury that revealed rampant sexual abuse of children by some 300 priests by stating that the victims weren't raped because they were only groped, not penetrated.


Obviously also an anti-abortion whackjob:

In November 2005, he criticized an episode of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation for promoting "a pro-abortion rights agenda by portraying those who are opposed to abortion as religious nuts not to be taken seriously".

Donohue, along with a number of other religious leaders, criticized the children's fantasy epic The Golden Compass. Donohue said that the trilogy of books on which the screenplay was based, His Dark Materials, "denigrate Christianity, thrash the Catholic Church and sell the virtues of atheism". Though the film eliminated what he found offensive, he deemed it a "stealth campaign" to sell the books to readers unaware of their content. The impact of the resulting controversy on the film's commercial performance was uncertain.


In regards to the increasing move to dispel the myths of Christmas . . .

"In 2010, after an atheists organization used a billboard at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel to display the message "You KNOW it's a myth!" across the scene of the magi traveling to the manger at Bethlehem, the Catholic League responded with a billboard of its own. Donohue said "We can't enjoy the Christmas season without someone trying to dumb it down or neuter it" and added: "Talk about a myth. They believe in nothing. They stand for nothing. They think we came from nothing. They're the ones who really are living in some other hollow world."

Source


Lots of arm waving and gesturing in the presentation, little of which had anything to do with what he was saying. Clearly a con man who knows that you need to put lots of gestures into a presentation to appear effective.

His notions of there being a carnal mind are straight out of the religious indoctrination 101 school.

Like so many religious nutjobs they say they support freedom of speech but that only applies in so far as that free speech doesn't criticise his beloved religion and it's myths. These are the kind of people holding humanity back. Catholicism is a huge powerbase predicated on appalling conditioning of the masses using very well known deep psychological manipulation techniques. I had 2 very good friends who were duped by Catholicism, hugely "unawake" to the world around them, very very naive and harbouring all the usual traits of piousness and one-upmanskip (believing they were somehow better than everyone else because of their faith). I loved them both dearly despite seeing their terrible conditioned plight. He died 2 years ago of a terrible blood condition which ruined the last 5 years of his existence. She dropped dead suddenly a year after he died. Doubtless they are both now realising the reality of the universe and how stupid they were to let themselves be duped for so long.