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Alchemy and the Mystical Experience

Does practical Alchemy include the Mystical Experience?


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Kiorionis

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I don't think I could define "mystical experience". There are lots of examples possible. I know it when I see it, sometimes. Often I can recognize it only because I remember how I "got there", and it was quite sudden. Other times I have worked to open up to such. Working with my partner we have experiences whenever we sit down to do such, sometimes faster than other times.

The last two months we have been on a steep up-curve on intensity of mystic experience, together. As tantric alchemists mostly, the only labs my partner and I have are our bodies and minds.

Hi III,
When practicing tantric alchemy, and there is a 'up-curve on intensity', can you predict when/where it finally flowers? I am curious because recently I have begun some Taoist meditation practices which involve 'charging' myself with energy, and then it's re-programming, and it has only come to the point of discomfort.

But then again, I'm assuming the pursuit should be painless. Which I also assume to be naive...

Divine ecstasy is transforming, repeatedly.

Very beautiful :)
 

Kiorionis

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It is not so much the ego which stands in the way of spiritual experience but its confinement by limiting beliefs and by the five physical senses. In Astrology, the frontier of its realm is represented by Saturn - the last of the visible planets which confines the inner planets, and is being himself confined by his characteristic ring.

I very much agree with you here Michael.

Unlike some other metaphysical systems, Alchemy doesn't teach detachment from the physical world but bringing the spiritual light into it: The spiritual becoming physical, and the physical becoming spiritual.

Thus the Emerald Tablet says:

"Its force is entire if it be converted into earth."

The matter thus opened up will be imbued by the cosmic forces and attain a higher level of its evolution. Again, this holds true not only for the substance in the flask but also for the Alchemist themselves, due to the correspondence that is happening between them.

This is how practical Alchemy and mystical experience tie in with one another as seen from an Astrological perspective.

You're saying then, that the 'Mystical State/Experience' (opening of the Ego) is necessary in order to bring the spiritual light into the physical world?

Can Alchemy be performed through the practice of Astrology to achieve the Mystical?
 

Michael Sternbach

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You're saying then, that the 'Mystical State/Experience' (opening of the Ego) is necessary in order to bring the spiritual light into the physical world?

Yes. Some clearing of the mind from negative thoughts and emotions is generally part of the process, too.

The spiritual light pouring into one's consciousness may be accompanied by a visual perception of light or increased brightness, by the way. That's probably where the term 'enlightenment' comes from.

Can Alchemy be performed through the practice of Astrology to achieve the Mystical?

Yes. Spiritually oriented Astrology goes hand in hand with Internal Alchemy.
 

III

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Hi III,
When practicing tantric alchemy, and there is a 'up-curve on intensity', can you predict when/where it finally flowers? I am curious because recently I have begun some Taoist meditation practices which involve 'charging' myself with energy, and then it's re-programming, and it has only come to the point of discomfort.

But then again, I'm assuming the pursuit should be painless. Which I also assume to be naive...



Very beautiful :)


Hi Kiorionis,


I'm assuming the pursuit should be painless

That may depend upon definition of "pain" or "painless". The whole thing is a cycle, the alchemical cycle, that is repeated over and over. So one is "exposed" to "energy" outside of their usual experience. Using EJ Gold's language this dose of "energy" triggers ones automatic response ("chronic reaction", "chronic" for short). One then digs out the trigger and releases/removes it to allow the "energy" to fully get through to one's self and integrating it. That "energy" is called "shaktipat" in certain forms and systems. It becomes information, knowledge, and in the end Wisdom. It happens in bearable steps and very systematically. The first thousands of times through the cycles it doesn't seem to make much difference. As one grows by taking the "energy", the "light" and making it "real" as part of our being as we bring it into the world over and over. The very energetic effect that causes a "compression" of the energy into the substance of being, ends one cycle and starts the next as the person then is once again exposed to energies that they were keeping out.


From the "shape" of the curve of increase of the energies, one can see where it is headed. At some point it goes "vertical" and (my word) "lases". Now there is a catch (isn't there always). One runs into Hero's Paradox. Instead one has to perform calculus and go to the limit instead of infinitely approaching it. One enters the chamber instead of seeing how close to the door they can get forever. There is then a new "reborn" being of a larger magnitude, and then it all starts again unless the person believes that they have "at last made it, reached the ultimate" and stop looking. That is the best I can describe it.


There are many ways to enter into the cycle. In the process one must face all their fears, everything that would come up at death, usually one blockage at a time. It's learning to "die before you die". As the person grows and evolves, the size of the steps increases.


This all affects one's life. Understanding changes, choices change and become more and more conscious. I've seen marriages break up very suddenly. I've seen new relationships happen at first glance.. EJ's advice is "Make no sudden moves" and to "treat all relationships with respect". As my partner and I are doing this together we are changing in similar and complementary ways. EJ again compares it to being in a rock tumbler as we each knock the rough edges off of each other.


can you predict when/where it finally flowers?


If I am understanding your usage her, it flowers over and over, at the end of each "grand cycle" or something like that. There is always that feeling "At LAST I HAVE MADE IT" at the end of these grand cycles. This is how I can describe it. Others will describe it differently but usually, If I am talking face to face and negotiating meaning, we can come to an agreement of the description at least in parts and pieces. Good luck.
 

Kiorionis

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III,
You have made some things much clearer for me. Thank you :)
 

Dragonsblood

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Personally find (at present level of experience) that the Mystical Experience is tied up with activity of the pineal - see the double peacock symbol around the massive pinecone at the entrance to the Vatican (terrestrial symbol of a Holy Place).
The two peacock tails open to form a circle (could be the Cauda Pavonis) and the so-created stargate allows travel without movement. The art of Alex Grey shows a shared vision of reality unveiled (perhaps to the limits of current incarnated consciousness)

Like a radio changing channels - it seems you can only "channel" that which within your ability to encompass/allow


So in terms of "cheating" whether a natural biological inclination to heightened pineal activity, sitting in darkness for 300+ hours, yoga disciplines, the jewel in the lotus / Dr Shroom / Master under the sprig of Acacia, or the seeds of potent symbols which grow in the sub/super conscious to birth a Mystical experience - all seem to be trunk, tail or leg of the same Elephant..

The shattering of the vessel / opening of the auric egg / emerging of the butterfly from the cocoon seems to be the final stage - the work being set into ferment (introduction of Life from outside the vessel) by these Mystical Experiences / contact with the Divine (IAM merging into ONE).

- He said with little experience and zero authority on the matter
 

Kiorionis

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- He said with little experience and zero authority on the matter

You're too modest ;)

I very much like your perspective, that mystical experiences are a catalyst to further development. Looking back on a few of mine now with my memory, they seem ordinary. But reading through my journal of the same memory gives quite a different quality. Much more excited and elated.

Maybe this means I've internalized them and made them part of my everyday reality...

For the sake of conversation, how does one go about fixing the mystical into their everyday reality?

------------------

And just to reiterate:
Not only am I curious what others think about the mystical experience as a goal in alchemy, I'm also curious in any opinions, ideas and/or comments on the subject of mystical experiences in any way, shape or form.
 
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Kiorionis

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And in reviewing the thread:

Spiritual" implies something that could be religious, holy, profound, unexpected, or extraordinary. But why would we seek something that is totally different from our "ordinary" daily lives? Are we bored with our "normal" routines? Or are our "normal" routines really not what we should be pursuing?

I'll leave the interpretation of this post, based on the last, open for interpretation.
 

Awani

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It dissolves all boundraries and is impossible to put into language.

:cool:
 

zoas23

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If an alchemical experience doesn't include a mystical experience, then it's worth nothing.

In my opinion, the alchemical experience doesn't even need to be "advanced", it can be something incredibly basic and simple like extracting Potassium Carbonate from a plant... and seeing how this beautiful salt was "hidden" there... and feeling a "mirror" sensation that goes from the plant to your own body and from your own body to the universe as a whole... and from the universe as a whole to "that" which has no name.

An image that changed a lot of my views and its description:

[image links broken]

The image is taken from Austin Spare's "Earth Inferno". The book is not about Alchemy... and yet it perfectly describes how I feel about this whole issue.

"Your reward is neither here nor after" is a phrase I adore.

Those who seek "the gain of the world" will end up being very disappointed, even if they manage to turn the whole world into Gold (though I don't see the need of living in a golden planet).

[video links broken]

Blind belief ain't enough.
Alchemy is anoetic Gnosis.

I'm incredibly far from being a Fulcanelli or a Flamel (though I think that Flamel was very far from being a Flamel, but that's another issue)... but I've learnt that Alchemy is clearly NOT what happens inside the "flask"... it's something else (and I'm not a Jungian).

Defining alchemy as what happens inside the flask is very much like defining painting as a manipulation of pigments and brushes to create nice decorations. Is that what art is about? I don't think so.
 

Awani

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...it can be something incredibly basic and simple like extracting Potassium Carbonate from a plant...

I agree to some degree, but mostly I don't agree. I think your example might be what sets somebody on the path towards a mystical experience, or perhaps glimpse it. But the true mystical experience, IMO, changes your life in one single moment that can last for less than a second (or hours) and it is without question.

Watching Point Break and seeing people jump out of an airplane is not the same as jumping out of an airplane yourself.

Now very important: I am not dismissing anyone's mystical experience if they feel they have one in a way you describe above, but for ME it is not enough. It won't achieve the complete immersion into what some call the divine, which to me is the ultime mystical experience and the only one worth having.

This is my experience. And works for me. Not pissing on other peoples mystical experiences as I am sure they are valid to them.

It has to dissolve borders of the ego and the body. It has to be impossible to put into language. It has to be the culmination of your life up until that point. A simple alchemical process simply won't cut it on its own, but it can provide the path towards it. In my humble opinion that is 100% truth for me and cannot be questioned by anyone on pain of death. LOL!

:cool:
 
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zoas23

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I agree to some degree, but mostly I don't agree. I think your example might be what sets somebody on the path towards a mystical experience, or perhaps glimpse it. But the true mystical experience, IMO, changes your life in one single moment that can last for less than a second (or hours) and it is without question.
(...)

It has to dissolve borders of the ego and the body. It has to be impossible to put into language. It has to be the culmination of your life up until that point. A simple alchemical process simply won't cut it on its own, but it can provide the path towards it. In my humble opinion that is 100% truth for me and cannot be questioned by anyone on pain of death. LOL!

I get which one is the problem here...
My mystical path definitely didn't begin with alchemy, but with other issues... and by the time I "arrived" to Lab alchemy, I was already "there".

So my own experience was and is *biased* by previous experiences.

I think you are right, if you take a random person from the street and you make him go through a very basic alchemical experiment (I insist on the extraction of a simple salt, because I am willingly trying not to make this idea become an issue of "High Alchemy" vs. "Very simple things")... then probably the reaction would be: "O.K., that's nice. Cool." and not much more.

So I was probably talking about my own experience that includes a life-story that precedes my experiences with alchemy... and I forgot about this "previous personal history" and made an universal statement, which is probably not accurate if I make it "universal".

Re: the dissolution of the Ego... this is a very personal opinion, but I think a lot of persons fall into a HUGE problem with this issue by misunderstanding its actual meaning. I've had big discussions with some members of this forum about this specific issue in the past and I won't get into them again... But it is my opinion that if someone begins to feel that he's somehow like an omniscient passive ghost that no longer interacts with the world and is a pure contemplative and inactive nothingness... then this person has taken a wrong turn somewhere in the path.
 

Awani

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So I was probably talking about my own experience...

That is all you can do! ;)

...omniscient passive ghost that no longer interacts with the world and is a pure contemplative and inactive nothingness... then this person has taken a wrong turn somewhere in the path.

In a way yes I agree with this. I said before that if someone assume they will not be reincarnated they are, IMO, doomed to be reincarnated. If you believe in reincarnation or not is beside the point... you can read that as an allegory as well.

So this is not what I mean by dissolving the ego. Sure it can cause detachment... but what is the greater outcome is the opposite: embracement... of all things... "good" and "bad"... it is not passive, nor is it apathetical... it is just accepting that some things are as they need to be. And the perspective one has of things is the way those things will effect us.

:cool:
 

Fishy

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interesting topic.

from my experience i would say "Soror mystica" is the trigger of my Mystical Experience.
which leads to the mystical wedding of alchemy, divine union.
 

Andro

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i would say "Soror mystica" is the trigger of my Mystical Experience.

Do you mean your girlfriend as the 'alchemical wedding' partner? Or your own 'inner' Soror Mystica?
 

Kiorionis

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It dissolves all boundraries and is impossible to put into language.

Quite right! Dissolving 'boundaries' is more interesting for me to contemplate right now then dissolving 'ego'. Funny how in order to dissolve boundaries, we have to connect with something -- the Divine, the One, etc -- which seems to necessarily establish a boundary... :confused:


In my opinion, the alchemical experience doesn't even need to be "advanced", it can be something incredibly basic and simple like extracting Potassium Carbonate from a plant... and seeing how this beautiful salt was "hidden" there... and feeling a "mirror" sensation that goes from the plant to your own body and from your own body to the universe as a whole... and from the universe as a whole to "that" which has no name.

My first legitimate experience with the mystical was something like this. Now, I'd put it at the lowest degree of experience, but still influential. I was rectifying some wine alcohol for a plant tincture, and suddenly I was consumed by the glasswork. It was my first experience of Union during lab work.




'inner' Soror mystica.

I'm glad you brought up the Mystical Sister. Especially with some threads recently developing towards the Androgynous.

My own experience with the Soror Mystica is scarce, but I recently read about an interesting ritual to manifest a better connection with her/him. I would say the interaction with her has been the one thing which has crossed boundaries. Meaning that, rather than myself rising to meet the mystical, the mystical has lowered to meet me.

Very curious
 

elixirmixer

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While we are all being a bit weird, I'd like to take this time to share some things with you all. I expect it to come under serious scrutiny and disbelief, nevertheless, these are things that through direct experience and observation, I have come to know to be true.

First of all, I will have to confess, and to many people's distaste no doubt, that God, Jehovah in Spirit, born Joshua of Nazareth, martyed Jesus the Christ, even the Eternal Father, does in reality speak with me. And quite often in truth. Im not completely sure as to why, other than He has a work for me to do, because I do not believe God to show any favouritism to any man, one over another, but responds equally to each man and his works.

And actually I retract that statement, I do know what has opened the communication channels... Faith.

I heard of God, read about these great Jewish men who showed a very high level of moral ethics and dedication towards God, and who claimed to have been rewarded with things like immortality and eternal life (two very different things). I wanted it. And I believed it to be possible. But that's not Faith. Faith is the moment that one takes action, based on a believed truth, having no evidence whatsoever of a result, nevertheless, expecting one. I fasted and prayed and studied the scripture's for 9 days with only water, to a God I had never met, in hope that I would know these things for myself (as opposed to being forcefully indoctrinated into false ways )Over time, and more steps in Faith, Faith turned belief into knowledge. And when I knew God was with me, then He started to speak with me. (This did not require any type of church, only belief in and on the Son of God, even God in the Flesh. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, being One God, Even the Eternal Father.

Now God has told me many things, He has answered all questions of mine, be this in His own time, not mine. Some instantly, some questions are answered through experience's that span many years.

But this I know for sure. 100% and with no doubt and not objectively or subjectively, for all men are effected by these conditions regardless of their awareness and regardless of how they have chosen to craft their mental world and I know these things to be indeffinate, and unyeilding to any other conditions set upon our reality.

So let me tell you the story of your lives... if you do have ears to hear.. and if one ear hears, I care not what the other 99 shall say:

"In the beginning God created heaven and earth. Now the earth was formless and void." hang on... doesn't mainstream Christianity claim that God created the world in 7 days? But here, in the very first two lines of the bible, we see a clear distinguishing between "In the beginning" and "Now". So let's go to the beginning shall we.

In pre-existance, when the earth was just an idea in God's mind (and it was exactly that, a thought) you were conceived of heavenly parents, even the Eternal Father, and your Mother of which whom's sacredness exceeds and is protected from this world, as a husband protects his wife, God keeps the identity of the Mother hidden. We all existed in a spirit form, in the highest place in the heaven's, the celestial kingdom, who's Glory is represented by the Sun, relative to the terrestrial kingdom who's Glory is represented by the moon, relative again to the telestial kingdom who's Glory is like unto the stars.

The Eternal Father proposed a plan, to decend these, His spirit children down to Earth, in order that they may receive their Body, and having done so, may return to Heaven, and having been perfected and prepared for Godhood themselves. After all, a lemon tree does not give birth to a donkey. And a donkey does not drop seeds of citrus, but in the seed of all is it's same type, and in time brings forth life, of the same form as it's parents before them. You have parents of the body and you are indeed like unto them in body, your Spiritual parents are of the highest divine royalty, and of their form and type you are called to be. Even Godhood.

Yet, (much like I've recently learnt through the volatilized salts experiments ) to return home, the body must be refined and made clean, before it can assend.

The Father warned that not all would be able to return because their vessels would become stained by something called sin. In fact, none would be able to returned unless they would first be cleansed by the sanctification of a pure and worthy sacrifice.

It was proposed that there should be a Christ, in fact, we were councelled of it's necessity. Many great and bold souls stood forth and pleaded their case as to why they suited the role of Redeemer, King of kings, Saviour of the whole world. Amongst them we see Lucifer Elohim, a spirit of high nobility, gifted in sound and music, linguistical and persuasive. His claim to fame sounded something like "I shall remove men's freewill, which you have given them, and I shall ensure that every one of them is saved, and let Your Glory be mine Father". This was an unsuccessful application.

Jehovah Elohim, a humble and meek spirit, nevertheless bold, with an unyielding loyalty to the Father, stepped forward and said "Let your will be done Father (give them their free will) and let the Glory be Yours. "

This was the accepted proposal and Jehovah, before the earth ever was, was declared Saviour and Redeemer of the world.

Lucifer was pissed. He campaigned a rebellion and a third of the heavens faught against the humble Lamb and His new election.

"NOW" Jehovah created the world and Lucifer and his minions were cast down to Earth, and because of their rebellion in the first instance, received not a body, but are spirits only, having opted out of their divinely intended purpose's. (God gives all form's of intelligence free will, to choose for themselves life eternal, or death everlasting) He will not force the hands.

So congrats everyone reading this today, you have passed the first test and are in the middle of your second.

Through calcination (repentance) dissolution (baptism )digestion (the 40 days of purification and development of the Spirit) you can pass through the black phase. I will not go through the other phase's at this stage, but know this, and it be the point and moral of this story:

You are here to learn as much as you are able concerning life, the universe, consciousness and in fact all aspects of our reality, and to the degree of light and knowledge (intelligence) that you gain in this life, so your advantage in the next; HOWEVER the light you receive, requires the purified vessel, cleanses by the blood of the Lamb. Without these cleansing processes (the salvation ordinances (I will highlight the entire process if what has already been said is respected enough and if my Father, Friend, King and Redeemer allow me) you cannot return to the celestial kingdom, to live with God again. It is impossible, for those who are found climbing the walls of the bridal chamber will be classed as a thief, and the intelligence they have obtained, shall be taken and given to another.

This is enough information for you to understand your purpose, regardless of objective experience's or non-experiences. Those evil spirits seek to inhabit your mind, and leed you away from God, and drag you down to be their slaves, to lust and hunger for earthly things, since without you they cannot experience it for themselves. They are miserable, and seek to make you miserable like unto them.

Do not take my word for any of this. Go. Fast. Pray. And with an open heart, ask of God, if these things are true. And the Holy Spirit will testify of these things, so that you may know them of yourself.

For your Father longs to speak with you, as He speaks with me, but He will not force your hand, but waits patiently for you to seek Him.

He lives. He died. And now He lives forever more.

God is the Master Alchemist. He plays nature like a piano. And what a symphony it is.

Please meditate on these words, for what good is the stone to obtain, only to have it taken from you again?
 
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elixirmixer

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Practical alchemy is to teach you the 'phases' and to help purify the body ready for asention. The experience's are either to help you learn that there is a God, or to hold you accountable on the last day, so you will have no excuse in saying "how could I know there is a God, it was not shown to me!? " and the response from the 12 apostles will be "You were shown", and your mind will be called to recollect those experience's, and your guilt will condemn you.

Now there is more to the story... the salvation ordanices of baptism, Sacrament, the sacred union ect... these are required to enter into the celestial kingdom, where God dwells, but as you have already shown loyalty in your first instance, even if you refuse to be healed now, then for a time you are forced, you lock yourself to a great and incredible fire, to be calcined and burnt, purified in a much harsher way, then if you had chosen to do so while in the body. And then you will be placed into the terrestrial or telestial kindom (salvation through grace, not my works)

And that's how it is. No matter what your philosophy, you can't stop it. No one can, not even that great serpent of old.

(In the case of those who never had the opportunity to hear these things, they are judged based on whether or not they would have received them, for God knows the hearts of men.)

(All children who die before the age of accountability are taken to the celestial kingdom. "Let the children come to me, for so is the kingdom of heaven")

All men are saved by the atoning sacrifice of our Lord, yet while many are called to Gods house, few are chosen.

And I leave these things with you in the name of Jesus Christ. The Glory is His, and if there be scorn, He carries my burdens, and brings justice on the heads of those who would offend even the least of His little ones.
 
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elixirmixer

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You will be held accountable further still for having read this and received this knowledge, I warn you of that indescribable fire, of which the horror you know not, and in doing so wash my hands of your blood.

Jesus Christ invites all men, everywhere, to come unto Him and be saved.

That correct authority to perform the ordinances of God, rests with the Levitical and Melchizedek priesthood's, which in our modern day can be found in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. This organization was not created by men, but existed in the pre-existance, and on the earth even since the time of Adam and his sons. (removed from the earth during the "dark ages" and restored again though the profit Joseph Smith. I know these things to be true, through my own direct communication and NOT the endoctrination of men. Most these men seldom realise what they have, netalone are able to convince me of anything. It is the Holy Spirit who testifies to me these truth's, and it was the voice of God in my ears that solidified my knowing.

And if there be mistakes, they are my own, wherefore do not condemn the things of God.

In the name of our Saviour, Jesus Christ. Amen.
 

Kiorionis

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Thanks for sharing your experience, elixirmixir. Quite interesting.
 

ArcherSage

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Epiphanies are the result of the awakening process. Truths are not revealed, they are just known to the one receiving it.
 

Kiorionis

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Truths are not revealed, they are just known to the one receiving it.

Would you mind clarifying?
If you are receiving something (say, information), then how is this different from something being revealed?
 

Illen A. Cluf

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Epiphanies are the result of the awakening process. Truths are not revealed, they are just known to the one receiving it.

Close. I think that there is actually no such thing as "receiving" truths. I truly believe that we all have the truths already buried inside of us as some sort of collective subconsciousness. In my experience (yes, I truly believe that I have had actual epiphanies, one of which were far more profound than others), 'Epiphanies' are more like removing the veils that exist because of our social indoctrinations and physical extravagances to which we are all addicted. In most circumstances, at least initially, I do not believe that the removal of these veils happen by will, although I'm convinced that with the proper training, it could be induced. I have not yet found what training this could involve, although the undefined concept of 'meditation" seems to come close. The most potent of such epiphanies that I experienced happened during a state of extreme concentration and extreme enthusiasm. I felt like my entire body was "blushing" or "glowing". That's the best I can describe it as.

I have tried "meditating" since I was just a teenager, but could never enter these states willingly. When it did happen, it was totally unexpected, but was the most profound experience in my life. Unfortunately, it did not last for long (a day or so at most) and afterwards, much of the understanding disappeared. Only the memory of having experienced it and of having had access to unbelievable understandings persisted. Many of those understandings evaporated shortly afterwards, as if for an important purpose.

This is the absolute truth. I'm not exaggerating or making this up. I'm only saying this to inform others, and encourage others to help explain it, if possible. i usually don't dare to mention this to anyone, as I usually get attacked viciously for saying this. I'm not sure why, but I no longer care.
 
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