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Alchemical Films

Ghislain

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DS this has been a question that has bugged me for years...How Newtons and Einsteins come about.

At first glance this 11 year old May have just answered my question...I thought it was some kind of magic.

Now how does one stop learning and start thinking? I think that is easier said than done for as one starts thinking you need to learn stuff to prove the things you start thinking about.

Einstein had to go back to his books once he had his theories to mathematically test them.

I don't think my math would ever be near the level I would need to test my theories, as I am sure most of Joe Public's wouldn't, so I think Jacobs theory is missing something.

I wonder what that something is? Perhaps intense focus? But at what cost...social leprosy maybe...is that a price Joe is willing to pay?

The question remains unanswered!

tell me he isn't talking about Alchemy

Could you tell me your perspective on the Alchemy aspect in Jacob's speech?

Thanks

Ghislain
 
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DonSweet

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Fascinating post Ghislain ...

Loving the questions you pose.

They are precisely the aspects I'd hoped to provoke.

I've grown up in a family of exceptional people, with all due modesty, and that modesty is most certainly tempered by the fact that these exceptional minds were also often highly dysfunctional, occasionally to the point of "certifiable." It's a delicate balance.

Jacob also eludes to this, talking about being categorized and pigeon-holed by the system, almost as merely a lump of non-functional protoplasm.

Rarely does The System acknowledge something outside its narrow definitions.

I love stumbling across someone like Jacob. At fourteen (his age when this TEDTalk was shot), he's shockingly patient dealing with a roomful of "assholes-that-simply-don't-get-it."

Yeah ... I think that's what he's politely telling everyone in the audience, including video viewers.

People like this think on multiple levels simultaneously ... something I'm not unaccustomed to. My step-father's father was a literal genius who expressed himself largely as a professor of archeology at Drew University, but had several other pursuits. Exposed to him [heavily] in my early adult years, it was a challenge to have a conversation with him. We, however, developed a deep mutual respect, even friendship. We almost went into business together, him having vast resources I could benefit from. Unfortunately, I was forced to apply power brakes to it when I discovered I would merely become a subordinate toy for his amusement. That can happen with high functioning savants. All this never really effecting a change in our core friendship.

But Jacob seems to have a compassion (perhaps even empathy) for the rest of us. After all, he wouldn't have bothered with this talk at all if he didn't. In fact, he specifically states that he'd like to see us all excel to "his level" (my paraphrasing) ... which was also Newton's and Einstein's level.

I believe he's categorizing "learning" much the same way I do, which is in the classic academic sense ... memorize and regurgitate.

Child's play.

A book packed with fascinating, deep, expansive, highly intricate information laying on a table is just so much paper pulp.

Useless.

That's conventional "learning."

Useless ...

... save, perhaps, by the average industrialist that requires labor from semi-literate automatons.

Have I insulted modern culture yet?

I was hoping to.

I think what Jacob is coming out and saying ... not just insinuating ... is "You dipshits are doing it exactly wrong and you need to stop doing that and start doing this."

There are moments in this talk when I think Jacob would take great pleasure in going from seat to seat in that auditorium banging each audience member on the head with a stick asking, "Are you getting this asshole?"

Now ... I don't think there's a single thread of "meanness" in what he feels or what he'd like, but I can unquestionably feel his frustration. I think he's young enough where that frustration hasn't become true "damage." Maybe we'll all be lucky enough where he's never damaged by it. His existence and interaction with us "mere mortals" may actually become benevolent if it isn't.

So Ghislain, your question about Alchemy is fairly easily explained based on Jacob's criteria. One of the reasons I related to it has been my experience with Native Americans. In that, it's emphasized (in so many words) that "information" is fine ... even necessary ... but it's not "everything" ... it's not the whole enchilada ... which Western Culture (particularly academia) would have you believe.

What's FAR more important is "understanding" which Western Thinkers reject outright without the acquisition of information FIRST.

This is backwards.

Now, it can be argued that the empirical process itself is precisely correct ... formulate a hypothesis, establish a criteria, define a methodology, employ that methodology, then extract a pier-reviewed, repeatable conclusion.

But ...

... where the hell does this "hypothesis" come from?

Simple.

"Understanding."

PRIOR to irrefutable "proof" some crazy-ass scientist "believes" something to be the case.

Sadly, the empirical community focuses on the irrefutable proof, not the original process of acquiring a hypothesis. Until the hypothesis is proven, the asshole that proposes it is just a moronic dipshit with no proof.

The whole thing short-circuits my brain.

Western Culture wants the whole thing ... the whole enchilada ... proven, written in a book, laying on the table, finalized and completed ...

... instant gratification incarnate.

That ain't the way of things.

Our worldly experience is about EXPERIENCE ... about process ... not finality.

Oh, finality is fine ... glorious ... even fun ... but there's always something more ... there's always something more ... so life itself isn't about "conclusion" ... but the conclusion that leads to the next conclusion.

See the difference?

One is "linear" ... conclusive ... terminated ... beginning-middle-end.

The other is cyclical ... The Golden Mean ... The Golden Ratio ... The Fibonacci Sequence ... Pi ... interminable.

That's the glorious beauty of it.
 
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Ghislain

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I can see where you're coming from DS...

Although I wasn't a grade 'A' student it did bother me to watch people taking notes and learning them by rote without understanding the principles of the subject they were memorizing.

In an examination they would regurgitate their memorised notes to acquire top grades, but these grades did not reflect their understanding of the subject, but rather their ability to remember information.

I was the class bane as I could not move on until I had an understanding of what was being proffered. Numerous times people thanked me for getting the tutors to clarify the information put forward. I would ask them why they didn't ask for further clarification themselves and they would just say, 'I didn't like to ask'. :confused:

I cannot understand people who want to acquire qualifications in subjects that they will never fully understand! I believe this to be the majority. What I found even more annoying is that when you do ask the tutor to clarify the information they are putting forward it becomes obvious they don't really understand it either.

It is this type of learning that is holding us back for without an understanding of your subject you cannot possibly build on it and move it forward, all you can do is repeat that which has been given; some people are masters at regurgitating the information in such a way as to simulate an understanding.

I once had a math tutor who would show the class a formula and then go through an explanation of its generation, giving the history of the person responsible and what inspired them at that time. Needless to say we all ended up with an understanding of what he taught. Unfortunately the university let him go as his department (pure maths) had been dropped. I went to my head of department to explain they should keep him on to educate their lecturers on how to lecture...my plea fell on deaf ears. :(

I wish I could understand... :(

Ghislain
 

DonSweet

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Ghislain ...

BoldBW_zpsa26142e5.jpg
 

DonSweet

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I'm not a big fan of "movies" teaching things. Who produced it? Who paid to say these things? What were their motives? What's the "real" message?

Here's a good example. Good words, but the whole damned thing is a Coke commercial ...

 
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DonSweet

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By the way Ghislain ...

Your problem in understanding is that you're "trying to make entirely too much sense."

The System doesn't want sense, it wants obedience.
 

Andro

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Not explicitly Alchemical, yet very much so.

Predestination

Perhaps not the ultimate mindfuck movie, but pretty damn close, IMSO.

Trailer:


Watch in theaters, get the DVD or download via torrent: [link broken]

The protagonist has many parallels to the Philosophical Matter :)

If I could watch only one movie this year, this one would be it.
 

Awani

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If I could watch only one movie this year, this one would be it.

It was good, but I still prefer Interstellar... but I think that is due to personal reasons...

If only the average studio going audience was smarter, or Hollywood thought they were smarter... this film should have been much harder to figure out. I wish they had done it so the audience (I) don't realize 'the truth' until the very end.

Still in my opinion it is only the third best of 2014, as I think Interstellar and Lucy are much better.

SPOILER ALERT (don't read beyond this): And she doesn't look like a man one bit, IMO.

:cool:
 
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Awani

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Good words, but the whole damned thing is a Coke commercial...

But we are a part of the Coke as well, are we not?

I'm not a big fan of "movies" teaching things. Who produced it? Who paid to say these things? What were their motives? What's the "real" message?

You can say this about any teachings... the responsibility lies with the student not the teacher, with the receiver not the speaker.

:cool:
 

DonSweet

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Awani ...

Slept on your comments to my post.

Slightly confused over your choice of words about "the Coke" as well as your precise point. I suppose I resist being part of any "Coke" culture ... much like I'd resist The Borg ... save for the fact that it's the only cola some restaurants serve.

In my struggle to understand, I'll attempt to clarify my point.

The concepts the clip presents are great, but I suppose I resist how they manifest ... as a result of advertising. Now, resisting that may be entirely incorrect since screenplays are written, they acquire a budget and are produced, in which "product placement" is bought and paid for by corporate or commercial concerns, supplementing the budget ... a necessary evil.

The scene itself may not have been produced exclusively by Coke in order to sell Coke, but only the producers would know for sure. What is known, is that the film clip is at least partially intended to sell Coke.

You recently asked me, "Why so serious?" ... and herein lies part of the answer.

I abhor "pollution" and intentionally applied toxins in our environment, whether physical or psychological. To me, "that's-just-the-way-it-is" isn't good enough (not to say that's what you're saying in this or any other instance). Accepting what "is" as a matter of fact on its face value is what got DDT killing off wildlife in the 60's, or industrial/commercial/municipal effluent as a common addition to our waterways around the same time, or even the buy-this-and-you'll-be-happy crap that's a result of the industrial revolution ... or any other number of matter-of-fact wholly unnecessary injections of useless or even detrimental aspects of human activity.

Is all this business, commerce and money-changing necessary? Frankly, I think that's up for serious debate, although both a lifelong friend retired from banking and several hundred thousand others might vigorously disagree with me. Personally, recalling your own citations of "immature," a culture that blindly accepts "it's-just-business" in its narrowest most limited sense is worse than infantile. "Greed is good," is about as childish, arrogant and even narcissistic as it gets. There's better ways of doing things. And it could be considered even worse than that since we know there's better ways, but refuse to consider changing one iota. That's gluttonously refusing to let go of a nipple we've been feeding from that we no longer need.

But then, I'm citing all this smack dab in the middle of our evolution, and few, if any, can clearly define where we "should be," as opposed to where we actually are. It may well be that we're precisely where we should be, and that place is still quite immature.

Anyway ... I simply find it galling that an international conglomerate founded on the promotion and sale of effervescent caramel flavored sugar water is necessary to manifest expressions of wisdom.

As far as your student responsibility statement, I'll agree with you whole-heartedly ... truly ...

However ...

... (the use of "however" not intended to negate my agreement) ...

I'm compelled to point out that many, many cultures clearly, distinctly, even vigorously, possibly even under the threat of violence, insist that the average person submits utterly to higher authority and everything it teaches and espouses.

"Do it our way or there will be consequences."

I can't remember a single teacher or professor in my history that began a single lecture or class that began with, "You can choose to disbelieve me if you like ..." or anything of the sort. In virtually every instance the underlying theme was, "Do it this way or you will experience great distress, pain and consequence."

That doesn't even hint at student discretion.

It may well be that you were exposed to either a family or social [or even educational] dynamic that taught you to be critical of your "masters," teachers or otherwise, but that is very rare. It is not the experience of the average person, even to the point where such questioning becomes the subject of potential [or even likely] ridicule, instilling a lifelong fear of it.

Essentially, the common experience is the message, "Obey."

I suppose we've both learned otherwise ...

... and in my case, I'm breaking even my own "mandates" by discussing this with you at all ... since I've suggested that you and I are oil and water and shouldn't even attempt to get into stuff.

Guess that's just the oppositional Bohemian in me.

**smile**

**wave**
 

Andro

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I simply find it galling that an international conglomerate founded on the promotion and sale of effervescent caramel flavored sugar water is necessary to manifest expressions of wisdom.

Nobody is forcing you to drink coke, just as nobody is forcing you to take the wisdom.

Apply discernment, take what you need and discard the rest/superfluities.

In Input as well as in Output, separate the pure from the impure, the subtle from the gross.
 
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Ilos

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Hey guys,
Have you seen the movie "The Physician" It has a bit of history about Avicena :D
The movie
 

Ghislain

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Just watched it...good film.

One quote from the film I liked was when Avicenna said, "How pale and tedious would this world be without mystery."

I have to agree.

Ghislain
 

Ilos

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I kinda like Russell Crowe and went to look on google to see if I can find a good movie with him, than found this old movie, Its called Rough Magic, (one of those movies that you have watches as a kid and didn't had any idea what was going on than forgot all about it). It is a bit naive and old fashioned but Its really fun to watch, a nice adventuress, funny and love story involving some good magic insights. Enjoy :D
I think it deserves a spot in our alchemists list.

imdb.com/Rough Magic
 

Ghislain

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Synchronicity [link broken]

Ghislain
 

Ghislain

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Racing Extinction

HERE [video link broken] you can watch the film, "Racing Extinction", you may have to close a few ad's if you don't have an ad' blocker.

If you do decide to watch the film you may want to donate to those that make this possible HERE [link broken] at OPS (Oceanic Preservation Society)

Filmmaker Louie Psihoyos, along with activists, scientists and others, draws attention to mankind's role in a potential loss of at least half of the world's species. The documentary follows undercover activists trying to stave off a man-made mass extinction.

Creator: Louie Psihoyos
Stars: Elon Musk, Louie Psihoyos, Jane Goodall, Leilani Münter

Ghislain
 

3+O(

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A Field In England (2013)

Amid the Civil War in 17th-century England, a group of deserters flee from battle through an overgrown field. Captured by an alchemist, the men are forced to help him search to find a hidden treasure that he believes is buried in the field.
 

JinRaTensei

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Embrace of the Serpent

The movie was just added to "my" usual streaming site. Imo, it looks pretty amazing and has very good IMDB ratings.

It is a kind of "Film Noir" about shamanism and to my untrained eye it looks very authentic ( for cinema standards).

Movie for free:

[video link broken]

Movie trailer :

 

Awani

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Yes, that film is amazing!!! Based on a true story, but some freedom has been taken to what actually happened.

:cool:
 

Andro

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I haven't seen this one yet, but this is the description from IMDB:

The Alchemist Cookbook (2016)

Suffering from delusions of fortune, a young hermit hides out in the forest hoping to crack an ancient mystery, but pays a price for his mania.
 

Ghislain

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Einsteins God Model

Amazing the connections in this film.

The film has its flaws, but in general an amazing film.

Einsteins God Model [video link broken]

On my PC it comes up unsafe site, just go to details and visit site anyway, I always do and works for me.

Ghislain